The defense has a speed issue.

[Kontradiction]

Richards wasn't the problem.

The front 7 wasn't a front 7 it was a front 5.

Okay but who are you putting out there at LB to remedy this then? Especially with Hightower injured? You're arguing a lot but you're not presenting any solution. Speed was an issue last night. I know that you know what you're looking at just as I do, so I'm quite positive that you saw this. You've even admitted it. Further, the Chiefs specifically attacked it which is why I think the Patriots stayed in that formation even though Richards had no business being on the field, either. Speed will continue to be an issue until its either addressed or schemed for. If they decide to scheme their way out of it, it's only a matter of time before they run into someone in the postseason that can exploit it again. If that happens, this will be shades of 2012 all over again where the big, lumbering backers and safeties are targeted at will in both the passing game and the running game and Bill goes out and looks for a Jamie Collins in response.

So, all that being said, what's your solution? Are you making a trade or do we have it in-house?

 

[PP2]

I think it's important to keep in mind that it all starts with game planning. Reid put in a lot of spread offense concepts including the toss read which is something that came out of left field and not something the defense game-planned for. Reid game planned for this particular game all summer long, starting with stuff he saw and identified in the superbowl, and the first drive had a lot of crossers and pops that set the tone. There are two other things I'll take my hat off for, as far as what he did last night. He finally, finally became a good clock manager running out the first half correctly, and he never let his foot off the gas. He was aggressive right up to the end of the game. Both are uncharacteristic of Andy Reid- otherwise he is the same old Reid, allowing, what? 150 yards in penalties.

The other thing is that this is not the same defense as last year- there are new players on every level and hence a lot of potential for miscommunication. The Hunt TD that pretty much broke the D's back was the result of a miscommunication between Gilmore and McCourty. What I saw was Gilmore was expecting cover two and thinking that McCourty was playing deep half and would help over the top, and McCourty was expecting Gilmore to carry the deep route (which was probably the call as McCourty almost never makes a mistake).

I don't need to repeat the impact Hightower has on this defense and what happens to it when he's out of the game.

Does the defense has a speed issue? I don't quite think so- if only because KC is probably one of, if not the fastest team in the NFL. I think we were going to give up at least one big play, no matter what, but not three. That is too much.

Bottom line is, BB has always viewed September as an extended preseason- this is the time to tinker and experiment. October/November is when we should start worrying if things don't get better.

 

[Froob]

Marsh was playing a big role for a guy who arrived Sunday. Looked more like Stan Darsh out there

 

[maineman209]

The Chiefs were using nothing but misdirection and routes to the sidelines tonight. This is say nothing about the Chiefs RBs just basically outrunning our LBs at will. Clearly they were aiming to take advatange of the lack of speed in our LB corps and front seven. The question is how does this get fixed? Drop Chung in as a LB and play there safeties (which will give pure running teams an advantage)? Or is this just the team no-showing tonight?

It seemed to me that KC's run-blocking was superb and that the Pats DL simply couldn't handle it much of the time.

With the LBs, It seems to me that it was the "not knowing wtf they were doing" issue that exposed the "speed" issue. Some credit to Marsh for catching up to Hunt and almost making the tackle on that long play, although he may have blown his gap assignment to allow Hunt to get out in the first plae.

Plus, Kareem Hunt is the real deal.

 

[Dagg]

LB core was awful. High was invisible and Van Noy was overpowered in the run game and out run in pass coverage. Cupboard is pretty bare depth wise.....

 

[Kontradiction]

I think it's important to keep in mind that it all starts with game planning. Reid put in a lot of spread offense concepts including the toss read which is something that came out of left field and not something the defense game-planned for. Reid game planned for this particular game all summer long, starting with stuff he saw and identified in the superbowl, and the first drive had a lot of crossers and pops that set the tone. There are two other things I'll take my hat off for, as far as what he did last night. He finally, finally became a good clock manager running out the first half correctly, and he never let his foot off the gas. He was aggressive right up to the end of the game. Both are uncharacteristic of Andy Reid- otherwise he is the same old Reid, allowing, what? 150 yards in penalties.

The other thing is that this is not the same defense as last year- there are new players on every level and hence a lot of potential for miscommunication. The Hunt TD that pretty much broke the D's back was the result of a miscommunication between Gilmore and McCourty. What I saw was Gilmore was expecting cover two and thinking that McCourty was playing deep half and would help over the top, and McCourty was expecting Gilmore to carry the deep route (which was probably the call as McCourty almost never makes a mistake).

I don't need to repeat the impact Hightower has on this defense and what happens to it when he's out of the game.

Does the defense has a speed issue? I don't quite think so- if only because KC is probably one of, if not the fastest team in the NFL. I think we were going to give up at least one big play, no matter what, but not three. That is too much.

Bottom line is, BB has always viewed September as an extended preseason- this is the time to tinker and experiment. October/November is when we should start worrying if things don't get better.

Very nice post, but there's definitely a speed issue. As I mentioned before, it can be schemed around. The team has schemed around it in the past (as recently as last season). What I'm trying to figure out is just how they're going to do it as of today.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

The Chiefs were using nothing but misdirection and routes to the sidelines tonight. This is say nothing about the Chiefs RBs just basically outrunning our LBs at will. Clearly they were aiming to take advatange of the lack of speed in our LB corps and front seven. The question is how does this get fixed? Drop Chung in as a LB and play there safeties (which will give pure running teams an advantage)? Or is this just the team no-showing tonight?

The defense is not as bad as it looked last night BUT the lack of overall top shelf talent and depth with the front and LB corp will be a major issue with this team all year long. This offense will need to score 30+ points in most games this season if they are to win games.

 

[Love The Drake]

Let's get Kendricks from the Eagles id offer alot of draft revenue to fix this.
Most of our draft picks end up on IR anyway

 

[Kontradiction]

Let's get Kendricks from the Eagles id offer alot of draft revenue to fix this.
Most of our draft picks end up on IR anyway

Depending on how long Hightower is out, I would not be surprised in the least to see a transaction made this week. But I don't think it will be Kendricks. I just don't see why they would give him to us.

 

[Love The Drake]

Can we get Hawkins to unretire for the slot?

 

[Ring 6]

Not meaning to sound like a smartass, but if it were as simple as you claim, why do you think Belichick and Patricia failed to recognize and adjust? What are the reasonable explanations, in your opinion?

I value your opinion on most things that relate to defense, so I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.

I don't understand the thinking behind the bizarre scheme so I don't know how I could understand why they didn't adjust out of it.
I think they came up with a chief specific game plan designed to deal with their strengths and weaknesses and they were wrong.

At the start of the 4th we were ahead 27-21. We had allowed:
2 long drives
1 busted play td
6 other drives that totaled 20 plays 42 yards and zero points.

At that point the floodgates broke and we allowed uncharacteristic big plays.
At what point do you adjust? They figured it out on the fly.
The 4th quarter was awful but I don't know how you just change the game plan at that point.

 

[Ring 6]

You keep calling Richards a safety but from what it looked like on TV the majority of plays he played essentially LB/OLB. I hope we get a short blurb on this from one of our beat guys.

Well that's the problem. Safeties can't play LB like LBs.

 

[archstanton543]

"Not meaning to sound like a smartass, but if it were as simple as you claim, why do you think Belichick and Patricia failed to recognize and adjust? What are the reasonable explanations, in your opinion?"

Because sometimes they do fail to adjust. It was a night of odd decisions...including not taking an easy 3 points in the first quarter.

 

[Ring 6]

Okay but who are you putting out there at LB to remedy this then? Especially with Hightower injured? You're arguing a lot but you're not presenting any solution. Speed was an issue last night. I know that you know what you're looking at just as I do, so I'm quite positive that you saw this. You've even admitted it. Further, the Chiefs specifically attacked it which is why I think the Patriots stayed in that formation even though Richards had no business being on the field, either. Speed will continue to be an issue until its either addressed or schemed for. If they decide to scheme their way out of it, it's only a matter of time before they run into someone in the postseason that can exploit it again. If that happens, this will be shades of 2012 all over again where the big, lumbering backers and safeties are targeted at will in both the passing game and the running game and Bill goes out and looks for a Jamie Collins in response.

So, all that being said, what's your solution? Are you making a trade or do we have it in-house?

I'm not arguing at all. I am saying the speed that is essentially the level of speed we always have had in defense isn't what changed.
The scheme is.
We have never,ever played a 326 dime base. And what happened? Exactly what you expect. We were overpowered in the running game.
The big pass plays were anaomolies. Miscommunication on the hill TD and a great call, play and mismatch on hunts. It happens.
The bigger problem is when they wanted to run the ball they destroyed us because we were playing with the smallest front 5,6 or whatever you want to call it known to man.

You tell me. You play 3 DL, relegate HT to DE/OLB and make van noy the mike with 6 DBs on the field how are you stopping the run?
Personally I think after being about the best run d in the NFL last year playing nickel base we pushed the envelope and got burned.

Solutions? Well that's up to BB. I can see the big picture of what happened live but there is no way anyone can zero in intricately on the details watching a game live. If I had the time to do an all22 full game review I'm pretty sure I'd see that you aren't going to win games when OL are blocking safeties at the point of attack and that Kyle Van Noy is not a MLB.

When you take LBs off the field and replace them with safeties you are begging the other team to get outside and diminish your DL, which they did.
The run game became our 6 dbs andVan Noy who wasn't getting off blocks and shouldn't be playing mike trying to stop the run.

Harris needs to play MLB, not Van Noy who should have been where Richards was. A safety needs to be replaced by a LB.

 

[Ring 6]

"Not meaning to sound like a smartass, but if it were as simple as you claim, why do you think Belichick and Patricia failed to recognize and adjust? What are the reasonable explanations, in your opinion?"

Because sometimes they do fail to adjust. It was a night of odd decisions...including not taking an easy 3 points in the first quarter.

Again when?
At the start of the 4th quarter they had allowed 14 points aside from a blown coverage miscommunication.
You don't adjust to a corner thinking it's cover 2 and a safety thinking it's something else.
The defense aside from that mental lapse was good through 3 quarters.
What happened is KC figured it out and adjusted. You can't adjust to what they haven't done yet.

Note before the last play of the 3rd quarter the chiefs had 73 rushing yards. They had 112 after that.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm not arguing at all. I am saying the speed that is essentially the level of speed we always have had in defense isn't what changed.
The scheme is.
We have never,ever played a 326 dime base. And what happened? Exactly what you expect. We were overpowered in the running game.
The big pass plays were anaomolies. Miscommunication on the hill TD and a great call, play and mismatch on hunts. It happens.
The bigger problem is when they wanted to run the ball they destroyed us because we were playing with the smallest front 5,6 or whatever you want to call it known to man.

You tell me. You play 3 DL, relegate HT to DE/OLB and make van noy the mike with 6 DBs on the field how are you stopping the run?
Personally I think after being about the best run d in the NFL last year playing nickel base we pushed the envelope and got burned.

Solutions? Well that's up to BB. I can see the big picture of what happened live but there is no way anyone can zero in intricately on the details watching a game live. If I had the time to do an all22 full game review I'm pretty sure I'd see that you aren't going to win games when OL are blocking safeties at the point of attack and that Kyle Van Noy is not a MLB.

When you take LBs off the field and replace them with safeties you are begging the other team to get outside and diminish your DL, which they did.
The run game became our 6 dbs andVan Noy who wasn't getting off blocks and shouldn't be playing mike trying to stop the run.

Harris needs to play MLB, not Van Noy who should have been where Richards was. A safety needs to be replaced by a LB.

You've already admitted in this thread that the defense has a speed issue by acknowledging that it was also an issue in the past. It's a moot point. The 3-2-6 seemed to be something they had to play out of necessity, though, given the lack of depth at the LB. I suspect that's why they were working out the likes of Ayers. Harris coming in for Richards would be an improvement, but I'm not sure how much of an improvement it would be since Harris, too, has limitations going East to West in pursuit. That said, he would be able to stack and shed better than Richards would on runs up the A and B. He would still struggle in against sweeps, pitches, and other outside runs which really wasn't anything we didn't already know upon his acquisition.

As for the lack of speed in the front seven? As I said before, and as you've already admitted, it's something that the team has schemed for in the past. Short of a trade or other personnel moves, it is something they will likely have to do scheme for again. Because, until that's fixed, you'll see other teams do exactly what KC did which was attack the front seven East to West and get some very good results out of it.

 

[luuked]

I think if they played Harris it would have been a lot worse. 50 points and 600 yds

He couldn't have matched up with those RBs.

I got confused what kind of idiot would disagree with your explanation and the obvious reason for why Harris didnt play much (which is him being exposed when having to work laterally), then looked it up and my confusion was gone.

 

[Ring 6]

You've already admitted in this thread that the defense has a speed issue by acknowledging that it was also an issue in the past.

Um no I didn't. I said the team defensive speed is the same as it had always been and we've been pretty damn good.

It's a moot point. The 3-2-6 seemed to be something they had to play out of necessity, though, given the lack of depth at the LB.

That's just not true.

I suspect that's why they were working out the likes of Ayers. Harris coming in for Richards would be an improvement, but I'm not sure how much of an improvement it would be since Harris, too, has limitations going East to West in pursuit.

Harris comes in for van noy and van noy replaces a safety attempting to be a LB and being 40 lbs too light a d getting pummeled taking on ol.

That said, he would be able to stack and shed better than Richards would on runs up the A and B.

Richards wasn't playing inside. Plus there wasn't much running in the a and b gaps. The chiefs pulled ol and got threw at the edge on safeties.

He would still struggle in against sweeps, pitches, and other outside runs which really wasn't anything we didn't already know upon his acquisition.

Since he would be playing in the middle he isn't the guy to defend sweeps. But as an ilb he actually is very good getting to the outside.

As for the lack of speed in the front seven? As I said before, and as you've already admitted, it's something that the team has schemed for in the past.

No I did not say that.

Short of a trade or other personnel moves, it is something they will likely have to do scheme for again. Because, until that's fixed, you'll see other teams do exactly what KC did which was attack the front seven East to West and get some very good results out of it.

If we continue to play a front 5 yes that will be the case. Look at the KC runs to the defensive right. They block down on flowers and pull a g. You have TE and OG against 2 safeties.
You will lose that battle 9 times out of 10 at any level of football.
There needed to be a LB there to turn the play back in, or bounce it to the sidelines where safeties can actually help.
Safeties defending at the point of attack inside the numbers against pulling Gs is dumb football (actually it's a disadvantage that you can accept at times to take something else away but as a base d it's dumb football).

It's not about speed it's about size, strength and run defense ability.

Let's take the 03 Patriots.
Are Willie a de/OLB on the left. Put Ted Johnson at MLB. Remove vrabel and bruschi and replace them with backup safeties.
Do you have a speed problem or a size problem?

 

[Ring 6]

I got confused what kind of idiot would disagree with your explanation and the obvious reason for why Harris didnt play much (which is him being exposed when having to work laterally), then looked it up and my confusion was gone.

Well I'm glad you learned something then. Harris would have been in place of van noy. There is no way he would have played worse. On top of that van noy would have played outside where he belongs instead of having a safety taking in pulling Gs

 

[RobertWeathers]

I got confused what kind of idiot would disagree with your explanation and the obvious reason for why Harris didnt play much (which is him being exposed when having to work laterally), then looked it up and my confusion was gone.

I have zero problem with Andy. We argue frequently and its all good. Not sure what he sees I don't. He usually pipes right up.

I think Harris is an OK cover LB but vs Hill, Hunt and Kelce? Matchups were terrible for him.