The defense has a speed issue.

[luuked]

Well I'm glad you learned something then. Harris would have been in place of van noy. There is no way he would have played worse. On top of that van noy would have played outside where he belongs instead of having a safety taking in pulling Gs

I will trust BB/Patricia more on that than you Andy.

 

[luuked]

Again when?
At the start of the 4th quarter they had allowed 14 points aside from a blown coverage miscommunication.
You don't adjust to a corner thinking it's cover 2 and a safety thinking it's something else.
The defense aside from that mental lapse was good through 3 quarters.
What happened is KC figured it out and adjusted. You can't adjust to what they haven't done yet.

Note before the last play of the 3rd quarter the chiefs had 73 rushing yards. They had 112 after that.

Just so you dont think I am kinda bashing you all the time, I am completely with you on what you wrote about it not being as bad as people make it out to be.

 

[Ring 6]

I will trust BB/Patricia more on that than you Andy.

Ok what are they telling you?
You don't think there decisions last night were good do you?

So what you are saying is there is no point in making any analysis or assessment, because whatever BB and MP do has to be right? It was great coaching to hold them to 42?

Why did BB say they have to coach better?

Just so I understand, you are saying a 326 dime base, in hindsight, was genius?

 

[Ring 6]

Just so you dont think I am kinda bashing you all the time, I am completely with you on what you wrote about it not being as bad as people make it out to be.

I couldn't care less about thinking what you think.

Yet it was very bad.
Ultimately they escaped the first 3 quarters and KC figured it out by the 4th. The 4th quarter could be as bad a defensive quarter as I have ever seen.

 

[Urgent]

Doesn't matter. He's a safety. A lot of safeties play in the box. They are still safeties.

I don't agree with this, or the basic premise of the thread.
Andy Johnson's reply, from earlier in the discussion, is whether we should consider Jordan Richards a LB or S in the game. Is he a LB because he played in the LB role, or a S because he's listed as a safety on the roster.
I think if he is playing a LB role, then he's a LB.
I think the 3-2-6, which they clearly used in terms of personnel, was in fact a speed-based defense, because they basically swapped one DE for a LB, who should be faster, and one LB for a S, who should be faster.
This was not a traditional 3-4 defense with a Warren-Wilfork-Seymour across the front - this was a lighter, faster front.
By putting a S in the LB role, that's a faster formation.
Gilmore is definitely faster than Logan Ryan. So that's a speed upgrade.

This was a defense that gave up a ton of lonnnnng plays in the preseason. OK, it's the preseason.
But the same coaching staff put a defense on the field that gave up a ton of lonnnng plays in the opener. I think more long plays than they gave up last year.

I think the defense on the field was probably about the fastest the Patriots have fielded.
And about the worst of any game in the Belichick era.

The results understated the performance of the Chiefs, because they had a huge number of penalties.

Last season the defense was really helped by a lot of really bad quarterback play. Open players were consistently missed. Last night they were not.

I think Belichick can diagnose and fix things. But I'm not sure it is just a speed problem. It's alignment, tackling, holding position. It's talent on the defensive line.

 

[luuked]

Ok what are they telling you?
You don't think there decisions last night were good do you?

So what you are saying is there is no point in making any analysis or assessment, because whatever BB and MP do has to be right? It was great coaching to hold them to 42?

Why did BB say they have to coach better?

Just so I understand, you are saying a 326 dime base, in hindsight, was genius?

I am not saying it was genius but I am sure if we had 30 minutes with BB and he would entertain giving us that insight then we would both walk away realizing that it was not a kneejerk reaction but they had something specific in mind and it just didnt work. Not everything will always work. I dont have an issue with discussing potential motivations but I have no nerves for shallow, hot takey ********.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't agree with this, or the basic premise of the thread.
Andy Johnson's reply, from earlier in the discussion, is whether we should consider Jordan Richards a LB or S in the game. Is he a LB because he played in the LB role, or a S because he's listed as a safety on the roster.
I think if he is playing a LB role, then he's a LB.
I think the 3-2-6, which they clearly used in terms of personnel, was in fact a speed-based defense, because they basically swapped one DE for a LB, who should be faster, and one LB for a S, who should be faster.
This was not a traditional 3-4 defense with a Warren-Wilfork-Seymour across the front - this was a lighter, faster front.
By putting a S in the LB role, that's a faster formation.
Gilmore is definitely faster than Logan Ryan. So that's a speed upgrade.

This was a defense that gave up a ton of lonnnnng plays in the preseason. OK, it's the preseason.
But the same coaching staff put a defense on the field that gave up a ton of lonnnng plays in the opener. I think more long plays than they gave up last year.

I think the defense on the field was probably about the fastest the Patriots have fielded.
And about the worst of any game in the Belichick era.

The results understated the performance of the Chiefs, because they had a huge number of penalties.

Last season the defense was really helped by a lot of really bad quarterback play. Open players were consistently missed. Last night they were not.

I think Belichick can diagnose and fix things. But I'm not sure it is just a speed problem. It's alignment, tackling, holding position. It's talent on the defensive line.

We played small to try to match speed and got overpowered.
Now I can understand the idea of going db heavy to counter Kelce, and a team of small quick guys but you can stay in it all day. It's a gimmick d not a base.
To an extent it worked to counter what KC wanted to do, but by the 4th quarter KC adjusted and destroyed it.

 

[Ring 6]

I am not saying it was genius but I am sure if we had 30 minutes with BB and he would entertain giving us that insight then we would both walk away realizing that it was not a kneejerk reaction but they had something specific in mind and it just didnt work. Not everything will always work. I dont have an issue with discussing potential motivations but I have no nerves for shallow, hot takey ********.

I have no doubt there was a solid thought process behind the scheme.
I'm not sure what you mean by shallow hot take when I am saying he played the smallest defense I have ever seen and got manhandled.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Gon

I don't agree with this, or the basic premise of the thread.
Andy Johnson's reply, from earlier in the discussion, is whether we should consider Jordan Richards a LB or S in the game. Is he a LB because he played in the LB role, or a S because he's listed as a safety on the roster.
I think if he is playing a LB role, then he's a LB.
I think the 3-2-6, which they clearly used in terms of personnel, was in fact a speed-based defense, because they basically swapped one DE for a LB, who should be faster, and one LB for a S, who should be faster.
This was not a traditional 3-4 defense with a Warren-Wilfork-Seymour across the front - this was a lighter, faster front.
By putting a S in the LB role, that's a faster formation.
Gilmore is definitely faster than Logan Ryan. So that's a speed upgrade.

This was a defense that gave up a ton of lonnnnng plays in the preseason. OK, it's the preseason.
But the same coaching staff put a defense on the field that gave up a ton of lonnnng plays in the opener. I think more long plays than they gave up last year.

I think the defense on the field was probably about the fastest the Patriots have fielded.
And about the worst of any game in the Belichick era.

The results understated the performance of the Chiefs, because they had a huge number of penalties.

Last season the defense was really helped by a lot of really bad quarterback play. Open players were consistently missed. Last night they were not.

I think Belichick can diagnose and fix things. But I'm not sure it is just a speed problem. It's alignment, tackling, holding position. It's talent on the defensive line.

That defensive line was top 3 last year in stopping the run. I expect the defense to have a huge bounce back in a tough environment in new orleans

 

[maineman209]

"Not meaning to sound like a smartass, but if it were as simple as you claim, why do you think Belichick and Patricia failed to recognize and adjust? What are the reasonable explanations, in your opinion?"

Because sometimes they do fail to adjust. It was a night of odd decisions...including not taking an easy 3 points in the first quarter.

Frankly, the defensive scheme as well as the offensive scheme seemed pretty vanilla last night. This lead me to think that they have much of the playbook installed for either side of the ball yet. Installs are typically incomplete at this point in the season, but it may be that they're a bit behind where they usually are.

On offense, they're clearly still trying to figure out how to proceed without Edelman. It's only been a few practices since he went down and the #1s had very few game reps until last night. I'm not sure why the defense might be behind, aside from trying to integrate six new players, but apparently they are.

And neither the O or the D executed what they were given to work with very well. Probably difficult to "make adjustments" if there's nothing to adjust TO yet.

 

[Deus Irae]

The team has a "not enough talented players in the front 7" issue, which is something we all knew could be a problem. BB will either have to scheme around it or find better players.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

The team has a "not enough talented players in the front 7" issue, which is something we all knew could be a problem. BB will either have to scheme around it or find better players.

Pass rush we need more of and coverage linebackers

 

[Kontradiction]

Um no I didn't. I said the team defensive speed is the same as it had always been and we've been pretty damn good.



That's just not true.




Harris comes in for van noy and van noy replaces a safety attempting to be a LB and being 40 lbs too light a d getting pummeled taking on ol.



Richards wasn't playing inside. Plus there wasn't much running in the a and b gaps. The chiefs pulled ol and got threw at the edge on safeties.



Since he would be playing in the middle he isn't the guy to defend sweeps. But as an ilb he actually is very good getting to the outside.


No I did not say that.


If we continue to play a front 5 yes that will be the case. Look at the KC runs to the defensive right. They block down on flowers and pull a g. You have TE and OG against 2 safeties.
You will lose that battle 9 times out of 10 at any level of football.
There needed to be a LB there to turn the play back in, or bounce it to the sidelines where safeties can actually help.
Safeties defending at the point of attack inside the numbers against pulling Gs is dumb football (actually it's a disadvantage that you can accept at times to take something else away but as a base d it's dumb football).

It's not about speed it's about size, strength and run defense ability.

Let's take the 03 Patriots.
Are Willie a de/OLB on the left. Put Ted Johnson at MLB. Remove vrabel and bruschi and replace them with backup safeties.
Do you have a speed problem or a size problem?

What LBs? That's the issue. We played most of the game with a FRONT FIVE.
we have no speed issue that we didn't have every other year.

The Patriots have had squads where speed in the front seven was clearly an issue. I cited 2012 last night. Belichick responded to that by drafting one of the most athletic LBs he's ever drafted. That continues so far this year in Week 1 until they scheme to change it.

I'll just ask you straight up before I go any further in an effort to get a straight response on record and cut through the word salad: Do you think the front seven looked athletic last night?

 

[Nunchucks]

Frankly, the defensive scheme as well as the offensive scheme seemed pretty vanilla last night. This lead me to think that they have much of the playbook installed for either side of the ball yet. Installs are typically incomplete at this point in the season, but it may be that they're a bit behind where they usually are.

On offense, they're clearly still trying to figure out how to proceed without Edelman. It's only been a few practices since he went down and the #1s had very few game reps until last night. I'm not sure why the defense might be behind, aside from trying to integrate six new players, but apparently they are.

And neither the O or the D executed what they were given to work with very well. Probably difficult to "make adjustments" if there's nothing to adjust TO yet.

Patriots played almost all zone and they got picked apart.

 

[Ring 6]

The Patriots have had squads where speed in the front seven was clearly an issue. I cited 2012 last night. Belichick responded to that by drafting one of the most athletic LBs he's ever drafted. That continues so far this year in Week 1 until they scheme to change it.

I'll just ask you straight up before I go any further in an effort to get a straight response on record and cut through the word salad: Do you think the front seven looked athletic last night?

There wasn't a front 7. There was a front 5.
Athleticism wasn't the issue. Size a d getting blocked was.

 

[Ring 6]

The Patriots have had squads where speed in the front seven was clearly an issue. I cited 2012 last night. Belichick responded to that by drafting one of the most athletic LBs he's ever drafted. That continues so far this year in Week 1 until they scheme to change it.

I'll just ask you straight up before I go any further in an effort to get a straight response on record and cut through the word salad: Do you think the front seven looked athletic last night?

You are misusing my comments by the way.
Saying they have no speed issue they didn't have in every other year is saying spied hasn't been an issue, not it had always been. In fact I think I followed it by saying the defense was fine those years too.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

The Patriots have had squads where speed in the front seven was clearly an issue. I cited 2012 last night. Belichick responded to that by drafting one of the most athletic LBs he's ever drafted. That continues so far this year in Week 1 until they scheme to change it.

I'll just ask you straight up before I go any further in an effort to get a straight response on record and cut through the word salad: Do you think the front seven looked athletic last night?

I think they will be ok. Let's not forget that valentine wasn't there as well. They had an awful game.

 

[captain stone]

The team has a "not enough talented players in the front 7" issue, which is something we all knew could be a problem. BB will either have to scheme around it or find better players.

Pass rush we need more of and coverage linebackers

You two, and others, are preaching to the choir here, and some of us have been singing this tune for quite awhile.

Too many bad early-round draft picks (or, in the case of 2017, not nearly enough of them) catches up with every organization; and now it's caught up to this one.

 

[Ring 6]

You two, and others, are preaching to the choir here, and some of us have been singing this tune for quite awhile.

Too many bad early-round draft picks (or, in the case of 2017, not nearly enough of them) catches up with every organization; and now it's caught up to this one.

It was one game.
They will once again be a top 10 scoring defense and be playing in the afccg and how far they go from there is yet to be determined.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

You two, and others, are preaching to the choir here, and some of us have been singing this tune for quite awhile.

Too many bad early-round draft picks (or, in the case of 2017, not nearly enough of them) catches up with every organization; and now it's caught up to this one.

Season's over! With the first pick in the 2018 NFL draft the New England patriots select ......