The 2013 Prospect Thread

[Off The Grid]

Where Does Tyrann Mathieu fit in the NFL?



Where Does Tyrann Mathieu fit in the NFL? | NFL Draft Hub

Wherever the @#$% he wants to fit!! :rocker:

All Diamonds are flawed.

But Prognosticators interpret Brother Tyranneous X's diminutive stature as a Liability at their peril.

Despite plenty of contradictory evidence, millions still continue to insist that Dwarfs Can't Play FootBall.

This Great Game, to such a great extent, is about Core Strength...and Core Power.

It's about Fluidity...and, above all, it's about Processing Speed.

I don't have enough Data, at this early juncture, to draw definitive conclusions, particularly about that last critical Element, which ~ in my mind ~ trumps all.

But there's no question, even now, that The Honey Badger is a twitching, pulsating Coiled Spring.

He is explosive, Ladies + Laddies.

And he packs one hell of a punch.

And at that size, this tiny target ~ assuming he packs on another few pounds, as I'm quite confident he will ~ is actually less susceptible to wear and tear or injuries.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Walter Football's Charlie Campbell profiles USC OG/C Khaled Holmes:



WalterFootball.com: 2013 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Khaled Holmes

Holmes is my 2nd rated OG/C prospect after Barrett Jones.

Ouch! Not sure I want to go there with a kid that has not even come close to dominating in the PAC 10.

Speaking of O line guys that are a bit difficult to get a read on, what do you think of the giant OT's for LSU?

With Solder, Vollmer and Hix, BB is starting to show that he prefers giant OT's (6'7" or 6'8") with superior athleticism.

Not sure the LSU OT's are athletic enough for BB, but they are huge.

 

[mayoclinic]

Speaking of O line guys that are a bit difficult to get a read on, what do you think of the giant OT's for LSU?

With Solder, Vollmer and Hix, BB is starting to show that he prefers giant OT's (6'7" or 6'8") with superior athleticism.

Not sure the LSU OT's are athletic enough for BB, but they are huge.

Faulk and Hurst are both 6'6" and 325#+, but I'm not sure either has the kind of footwork or athleticism that Scar demands.

 

[mayoclinic]

Ouch! Not sure I want to go there with a kid that has not even come close to dominating in the PAC 10.

Ochmed, you're an SEC guy. What do you think of Arkansas OC Travis Swanson? He's a kid who intrigues me. I also think that Gabe Ikard of Oklahoma could be a Dan Koppen kind of guy at center (or guard). He's a bit undersized but very tough and smart. With Ben Habern quitting football due to injuries, I'm guessing Ikard will play the pivot for Oklahoma this year.

 

[mayoclinic]

FWIW, Mocking the Draft claims that LSU DE Sam Montgomery has bulked up from 245# to 275# this offseason, without losing his speed or quickness:

LSU defensive end Sam Montgomery has added 30 pounds this offseason - Mocking The Draft

I'm a bit skeptical, but it will be interesting to see how the added weight affects Montgomery's play.

 

[Snake Eyes]

For an incredible combination of strength, size and agility I'm still going with Alabama DT Jesse Williams, who could make a big leap this year after moving to NT. Williams was a JUCO transfer last year, and did well playing 3-4 DE. He recently made waves with a 600 lb. bench press in the weight room:

I wonder if that 600lb bench press might launch his stock to the point where he'd be too expensive. It's interesting that his high bench press number and 40 time launched Dontari Poe's stock but that he still can't play very well. A good player with a monster bench will make GMs mouths foam.

 

[mayoclinic]

I wonder if that 600lb bench press might launch his stock to the point where he'd be too expensive. It's interesting that his high bench press number and 40 time launched Dontari Poe's stock but that he still can't play very well. A good player with a monster bench will make GMs mouths foam.

It's possible. But I keep coming back to simple math:

- There are only 32 draft spots per round, maximum (30 in the 2013 2nd round since New Orleans and Cleveland lost theirs)
- There are only so many teams with needs at a particular position

It's hard for me to imagine Jesse Williams leapfrogging Star Lotulelei or Johnathan Hankins (assuming he comes out). He could go behind Kawann Short, Bennie Logan, or several other guys if a team prefers a penetrating DT. Pass rushers are generally prioritized ahead of interior linemen, and the 2013 draft is likely to have several studs (Barkevious Mingo, Sam Montgomery and Jarvis Jones will all be juniors but are likely to declare).

Poe came out in a weak DT class. 2013 is much, much stronger. Williams will probably be the #3 ranked DT at best in 2013, possibly lower. With all of the other talent available, it's hard to see him being completely out of range. He could go late 1st round, but top 20 would be a huge leap right now considering the likely talent available.

 

[ZoisKing]

I was bout to call BS on the 600 pound bench press as that is rarified air, but apparently some dude has done 1000 pounds:

Ryan Kennelly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, that was done with the assistance of a "bench shirt", WTH that is.....

Without the assistance of this "bench shirt", the same guy has press 655 lbs. That's crazy stuff.

If Jesse Williams can press that weight, then I'm impressed. He'd have an edge versus any opponent.

 

[mayoclinic]

If Jesse Williams can press that weight, then I'm impressed. He'd have an edge versus any opponent.

Tide’s Jesse Williams almost could lift two D.J. Flukers at once - Alabama Crimson Tide Zone

We see guys like Vince Wilfork and even 285# Justin Smith throw offensive linemen around like they are rag dolls. Some of these guys are incredible strong. Williams can essential "bench press 2 DJ Flukers", so he certainly has the strength to handle a double team.

Then there's this from Alabama RB Eddie Lacy:

"If I had to pick somebody [to avoid], it'd be Jesse," Lacy said of senior nose guard/600-pound bench-presser Jesse Williams. "I don't think anyone wants to see Jesse. Big. Strong. Fast. Not too much you can do when he's right in front of you." Lacy is known for his spin moves. He can't spin away from Williams? "No, there's no spinning away from Jesse," Lacy said. "If he's there, he's there. Just take it for what it is."

‘There’s no spinning away from Jesse’ Williams, Tide RB Eddie Lacy says - Alabama Crimson Tide Zone

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Hey Mayo, do you have that article title something like Top 10 physically gifted players in 2013 NFL draft? I skipped it because it was too long, but now I want to go back and read it. I think your guys Hunt and Jordan were on it. Thanks.

 

[mayoclinic]

Hey Mayo, do you have that article title something like Top 10 physically gifted players in 2013 NFL draft? I skipped it because it was too long, but now I want to go back and read it. I think your guys Hunt and Jordan were on it. Thanks.

You're referring to Bruce Feldman's annual "physical freaks" list:

The Freak List: The 10 craziest athletes in college football - NCAA Football - CBSSports.com News, Scores, Stats, Schedule and BCS Rankings

Jordan isn't on the list (he should be) but Margus Hunt is #1. Other notable entries include South Carolina DE Devin Taylor and Ohio St. DE John Simon. Honorable mention guys include Jesse Williams, William Gholston, and Eric Reid.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

You're referring to Bruce Feldman's annual "physical freaks" list:

The Freak List: The 10 craziest athletes in college football - NCAA Football - CBSSports.com News, Scores, Stats, Schedule and BCS Rankings

Jordan isn't on the list (he should be) but Margus Hunt is #1. Other notable entries include South Carolina DE Devin Taylor and Ohio St. DE John Simon. Honorable mention guys include Jesse Williams, William Gholston, and Eric Reid.

Cheers, you're a beast.

 

[mayoclinic]

NE Patriots' Draft profiles Illinois DE/OLB Michael Buchanon:

Athleticism
+Elite frame and good length through the upper body.
+Bends well for a tall athlete.
+Changes direction very well, able to mirror athletic ball carriers in space.
-Will need to add some bulk to play in as a 4-3 defensive end.

Pass Rush
+Shows off an impressive repertoire of rush moves and counters.
+Able to vary his club, swim, spin, push/pull and rip/dip moves to keep linemen off balance.
+Relentless in pursuit of the quarterback, closes very well.
+Has a good first step, gets off the snap quickly.
-Occasionally loses balance with his violent movements.
-Gets a little high in his bend and will allow the tackle to recover at times.
-Could add some more inside moves to his bag of tricks.

Run Stuffing
+Excellent open field tackler, looks comfortable in space.
+Uses strength and hands to disengage from linemen, sheds and locates the ball well.
+Delivers a powerful initial punch.
+Pursues sideline-to-sideline, good motor.
+Explodes through contact, powerful tackler.
+Anchors well for an undersized lineman.
+Spills plays to the outside when appropriate, can also force RB back inside by keeping outside arm clean.
=Sets a hard edge in college, but will need to add bulk to compete at the next level.
-Gets engulfed at times by bigger linemen.

Technique
+Uses his hands well, keeps linemen’s hands off his chest plate.
+Pad level stays low, doesn’t lose many leverage battles.
-Looks a bit awkward in his zone drops, needs to clean up his angles.

Intelligence
+Very disciplined in his reads, rarely misses his assignment/keys.
+Versatile player, playing the “Bandit” position.

Leadership
+Respected member of the locker room according to coaches.
+Embracing more of a vocal leadership role as a senior.
-Involved in an off-season fight that resulted in a broken jaw, handled it well.

Overall: Buchanan is not your typical athletic college speed rusher. He plays the “Bandit” DE/OLB position for the Illini, for the same coach who taught Demarcus Ware and the late Gaines Adams the same position (Vic Koenning, current DC at North Carolina). As the “Bandit”, he is asked to be half pass rush end and half edge setter, two things he does very well at this point. Although he was over-shadowed by his teammate Whitney Mercilus last year, Buchanan looks like the more complete draft prospect to me. if Buchanan can add another 10 pounds (he recently bulked up from 240 to 250) before stepping onto an NFL playing field, his upside will go that much higher and he could be attractive to both 4-3 and 3-4 teams.

Michael Buchanan Scouting Report | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2013 NFL Draft

I like Buchanan, though I like Dion Jordan much more because of his unique ability to play in space and his coverage ability.

 

[mayoclinic]

Walter Football's Charlie Campbell on Michael Buchanan:

Skill-Set Summary: There isn't a lot of mystery with Buchanan's game or how he stacks up entering his senior season. Buchanan is a fabulous athlete who is a pure speed-rusher for the Illini. He fits right in with a group of star athletes that Illinois has produced in recent years.

Buchanan is very fast around the edge. Not only does he do a good job of getting a step on tackles, the senior is adept at swatting their hands away to finish them off. For college and the NFL, his bread-and-butter will be as a speed-rusher coming off the edge.

When Buchanan gets to the quarterback, he puts the signal-caller down hard. Buchanan has nice technique to deliver hard shots to the chest of the quarterback in order to deliver a hard hit but not draw a penalty. He hits quarterbacks harder than you typically see from college defensive ends.

Buchanan is at his best in run defense when he gets upfield and disrupts runs in the backfield. Runs coming directly at Buchanan are the biggest weaknesses he needs to improve on.

Good pursuit skills are another result of Buchanan's speed. He has a good motor and flies around the field to get in on plays that other defensive ends can't get to. Buchanan has a good motor on plays away from him and that pays off with him contributing to a number of tackles downfield. He shows impressive effort to chase wide receivers on the sideline, even on swing passes.

Clearly, Buchanan needs to gain weight for the NFL. He has to get stronger and bulkier to hold up at the point of attack. Buchanan is a young player and has the frame to add mass. He'll need to add strength for any NFL defensive scheme. Buchanan could also stand to develop some more pass-rushing moves. A spin move and a rip move to the inside would be nice complements to his speed edge-rush.

If Buchanan can add bulk, it would open him up to 4-3 defenses. If a 4-3 team selected him at his current weight, he would be a tweener between end and outside linebacker. Buchanan's best fit for NFL currently looks like a 3-4 defense as a speed-rushing outside linebacker.

2013 NFL Draft Expectations: Buchanan could break into first-round consideration with a big season. If the senior stays consistent to his junior year production, he will probably be a second-day prospect.

WalterFootball.com: 2013 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Michael Buchanan

 

[mayoclinic]

Rob Rang looks at prospects from the Florida Gators, including one interesting lineman:

3. OC Jonotthan Harrison (6-3, 300)*

While former head coach Steve Spurrier was perhaps best known for churning out highly drafted (if minimally successful) quarterbacks and receivers into the NFL during his time with the Gators, his program also produced a number of offensive linemen. Offensive linemen from Florida were a relative rarity during Ron Zook's time as head coach and, with the notable exception of the Pouncey twins, there were surprisingly few drafted during Urban Meyer's time at the helm, as well. Of course, the Steelers' second round pick in 2011 (OT Marcus Gilbert) was recruited by him and so was Harrison, who could prove to be one of the top interior offensive linemen in the conference this season. Harrison redshirted in 2009 but emerged as a valuable reserve a year later, seeing action in all 13 games and earning the start at left guard against Penn State in the Outback Bowl. He started another game at left guard last season (South Carolina) but otherwise manned the center position for Florida, earning starts in all 13 games. Having proven capable of handling snapping responsibilities out of the shotgun as well as the typical center exchange, Harrison is expected to remain inside at the pivot this season. His size, strength, surprising agility and previous experience at left guard, however, is an indication that he'd be able to handle any of the three interior positions. Harrison is quick off the snap and plays with good leverage and power. He might be the least likely prospect for the Gators to earn significant hype (due to his position) but with the Pouncey's fresh in their memories, Harrison certainly won't be overlooked by pro scouts.

2013 NFL Draft: Florida Preview - CBSSports

Any thoughts, Kontra?

 

[Snake Eyes]

Jordan isn't on the list (he should be) but Margus Hunt is #1. Other notable entries include South Carolina DE Devin Taylor and Ohio St. DE John Simon. Honorable mention guys include Jesse Williams, William Gholston, and Eric Reid.

This is good, we want our binkies to remain under the radar

 

[manxman2601]

I apologise for my absence and would like to think Mayoclinic for his incredible effort of keeping this thread going. Guy is a star.


Rob Rang has moved on to Georgia in his breakdown of sorting top 5 potential draftees by school.

His no2 was one of my favourite players to watch from last season, LB Alec Ogletree:

2. LB Alec Ogletree (6-3, 234)*
Ogletree signed with Georgia as a highly regarded safety prospect and earned the team's Newcomer of the Year award as a true freshman in 2010 while registering 34 tackles in five starts (12 games total) at strong safety. As he continued to grow, however, the Georgia coaching staff asked him during the off-season to make the move to inside linebacker. His size and athleticism made him a standout during summer practices heading into last season and expectations were high that he'd become a star. Unfortunately, Ogletree suffered a broken foot in the season opener versus Boise State and missed the next seven games recovering from the injury. Once he returned, however, Ogletree showed why the team had faith in him, registering just 20 tackles behind team leader Shawn Williams with 52 stops, including 7.5 tackles for loss, three sacks and tying for the team lead with two forced fumbles. Ogletree lined up for Georgia at inside linebacker last season but his lengthy frame, athleticism and experience in coverage could make him even more highly regarded by pro scouts as an outside linebacker. Ogletree has the long arms scouts like from linebackers. He'll need to show greater strength in disengaging from blockers but was remarkably successful in this regard considering his inexperience at the position. Ogletree pursues with passion and has good vision and balance to keep his feet. He's also a terrific special teams player whose ball skills were demonstrated when he leapt high to snatch an onside kick early against LSU in the SEC Championship game. Make no mistake about it Jarvis Jones is the preeminent pass rusher in the SEC and this team's most bankable star on the defensive side of the ball, but Ogletree is an exciting prospect in his own right who, if he builds upon the success he tasted last season, could be in line for a high draft selection, himself.

Whilst I don't think we'll be using another high round pick on a linebacker, this kids athleticism and versatility might just warrant some Patriot looks. Has the range to be a nickel LB, the tackling ability to play inside in a 3-4 look, the length to potentially play as a 3-4 OLB and potentially could play all 3 LB positions in a 4-3. When you come to watch Georgia this year, give this guy a look. You won't miss him - he'll be around the ball and probably making the tackle.

 

[manxman2601]

Jone Dove on Oklahoma S Tony Jefferson:



Updated 2013 NFL Draft Big Board for Top 25 Prospects | Bleacher Report

I like the Earl Thomas comparison - Thomas was a guy I had hoped would slip to the Pats at #22 in 2010. Along with Tyrann Mathieu, he's one of the more intriguing CB/S hybrids for 2013 (or 2014, though I suspect both guys will declare after this year).

Lord knows I was high on some Oklahoma players last year (I had three major Oklahoma binkies) and Frank Alexander on my long list too. But looking back at BB's draft history, as far as I can see, he has never drafted anyone out of Oklahoma. Coincidence or an issue with the program?

 

[manxman2601]

James Christenson of NE Patriots' Draft looks at 2011 film from SMU vs. TCU, and likes what he sees of DE Margus Hunt:



Scouting the 2013 NFL Draft: TCU vs SMU (2011) | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2013 NFL Draft

It's hard to imagine a 6'8" guy playing NT, but Hunt could be a long-term successor in a Jonathan Fanene kind of role - 3-4 DE, 4-3 LDE, DT on sub packages. Someone to watch carefully, along with guys like Bjoern Werner from Florida St. and William Gholston.

FWIW, the Margus Hunt snaps in thia game can be seen here:

Margus Hunt vs Pittsburgh - YouTube

 

[manxman2601]

Here's a question.

Assuming the prospect rankings stay as they are now (which of course they won't) and you are a GM of a team in need of strength across the board (and picking high) and bearing in mind the depth of the DE/OLB prospects in this coming draft, do you:

Draft a Jarvis Jones, Mingo etc with your high first rounder or do you draft a Amerson, Woods, Hankins etc with your first rounder and grab the best of the second tier DE's with your second rounder (Lemonier, Jordan, Devin Taylor etc)?

The reason I ask is that I'm curious what dynamic the incredible depth at DE/OLB imposes on this draft. Do all the teams picking ahead of us sup liberally at the DE well thus allowing a non DE type to fall to us or do the other teams look at this depth and think they can fill another position first and still be a able to grab a pass rusher too?