The 2013 Prospect Thread

[mayoclinic]

I don't think we have the luxury of ignoring what COULD be a glaring need at WR next April. However when your first 2 picks are likely to be in the area of 32 and 64, I don't think you can pass on a guy you might consider a "dynamic player", over a player who might fill a perceived need.

By the time the Pats will pick, their choices of "dynamic players" is going to be thin....at best. That's why I think WR could be a place where they can find a "dynamic player", simply because of the potential depth at the position, its more likely that a player who fits that "dynamic" description will be there.

I wouldn't draft for "need" to that extent, and I personally wouldn't take a WR that high. And there are almost always "dynamic players" available in the 2nd round and later. Rob Gronkowski, Matt Forte, Ray Rice, Shady McCoy, DeSean Jackson, Vincent Jackson, Greg Jennings, Torrey Smith ... all 2nd round (and none in the top 40). Mike Wallace and Jimmy Graham in the 3rd. Aaron Hernandez in the 4th. There's no need to reach.

 

[manxman2601]

As a big fan of both Sill and Reyes in the 2nd, I would agree on the DL part. But the last thing I wanted last season was a WR. I wasn't exactly thrilled with the Ebert pick, but I can deal with it assuming he'll get a Red shirt year on the PS, and have a leg up next season. His speed is intriguing.

However NEXT season is an entirely different situation. With Welker's status very cloudy and Gaffney, Stallworth, AND Branch ANOTHER year older, and even more marginal. With Edelman (love him or hate him) a potential FA. The cupboard is bare, Max.

I understand your reluctance to draft a WR that early, and in most years I'd readily agree. If we don't do something, we could be forced to bring back what might be the oldest WR corps in league history.

No Max, if there were EVER a year when BB would be justified in drafting a WR early it would be next year where the extreme need would meet a very deep and talented draft class, and there would be a good chance to grab a WR who would be a value and worthy of the pick, at (hopefully) the 32nd spot.

While I don't disagree. I still think its been too long between getting a "big ugly" early, so if BB doesn't go for a WR, I'd want him to grab a DT

I don't think we have the luxury of ignoring what COULD be a glaring need at WR next April. However when your first 2 picks are likely to be in the area of 32 and 64, I don't think you can pass on a guy you might consider a "dynamic player", over a player who might fill a perceived need.

By the time the Pats will pick, their choices of "dynamic players" is going to be thin....at best. That's why I think WR could be a place where they can find a "dynamic player", simply because of the potential depth at the position, its more likely that a player who fits that "dynamic" description will be there.

Dynamic players are not necessarily starters. I'm thinking more of situational players that might not have the requisite size to be every down players but could make real impact on selected plays.

As for WR, before FA opened in March(?), the potential WR situation for this season was potentially far worse than it will be next. It was an unsigned Welker, Edelman, Branch, Underwood and Ocho. Next year we should at the very least have Gaffney and Lloyd as bankers. All that leaves is finding a no2 and a slot guy.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

I wouldn't draft for "need" to that extent, and I personally wouldn't take a WR that high. And there are almost always "dynamic players" available in the 2nd round and later. Rob Gronkowski, Matt Forte, Ray Rice, Shady McCoy, DeSean Jackson, Vincent Jackson, Greg Jennings, Torrey Smith ... all 2nd round (and none in the top 40). Mike Wallace and Jimmy Graham in the 3rd. Aaron Hernandez in the 4th. There's no need to reach.

Wes Welker UDFA...

I wouldn't draft a WR before the 3rd round unless the player was elite or there were special circumstances.

 

[mayoclinic]

Dynamic players are not necessarily starters. I'm thinking more of situational players that might not have the requisite size to be every down players but could make real impact on selected plays.

Another reason not to spend an early pick on one. Situational players are available throughout the draft: Darren Sproles, Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, Emmanual Sanders, etc. Plus, you can't expect a rookie WR to step in and replace one of the veterans right away.

Wes Welker UDFA...

I wouldn't draft a WR before the 3rd round unless the player was elite or there were special circumstances.

Me neither. There's plenty of talent, and given the hit-or-miss nature of the position and the developmental time BB is better off bringing in veterans.

The Pats have any number of options for 2013, including using AHern more as a WR, moving Woodhead to WR, keeping Gaffney (2 year contract), extending Edelman, Ebert's potential development, and more. Not to mention deciding to keep Welker if they don't have other options. There's no need to panic.

 

[mayoclinic]

Charlie Campbell of Walter Football profiles William Gholston:

Skill-Set Summary: Gholston flashed in 2011 and if he becomes more consistent he could skyrocket up draft boards. The physical specimen has truly a rare skill set with daunting size combined with some speed and athleticism. Gholston has serious upside and is just scratching the surface of what he is capable of.

The biggest thing that Gholston needs to improve is his pass rush. He needs to develop more pass-rushing moves. Gholston has to get more consistent about applying pressure and bringing down the quarterback. Gholston had only three sacks in 12 games heading into last year's bowl game before having a massive day against Georgia.

Gholston has the potential to be an excellent rusher. There are times when he displays a dominating bull rush and a devastating spin move. Gholston needs to refine those moves and it would be nice to see him add a rip move. He has rushed from tackle as well as end, so he has some versatility.

Gholston is very physical at the point of attack. The junior needs to show a relentless motor this year. He is hard for offensive tackles to move and is adept at swallowing up runs or working through the pile to get in on tackles.

Gholston has a nice burst off the snap and teams underestimate his speed. On designed plays that leave defensive ends unblocked because the offense doesn't believe ends can get to the back, Gholston makes the offense pay with serious closing speed to get on the play. Other ends are unable to do that.

When Gholston hits backs or quarterbacks they feel it. He routinely puts offensive players down hard. With Gholston's strength and weight, that shouldn't change he when enters the NFL.

One hurdle with the NFL will be the link to his cousin Vernon Gholston. The former Ohio State Buckeye and New York Jet was a notorious bust after being selected with the sixth-overall pick in the 2008 NFL Draft. Williams Gholston doesn't deserve to be graded differently because of his cousin, but there will be some that overemphasize the connection.

Gholston has nice versatility. for the next level. He looks like a perfect fit as a 4-3 defensive end, but he also could be a five-technique defensive end in a 3-4 defense.

2013 Draft Expectations: Gholston currently looks like a late first-round or early second-round pick. He has the skill set to be a definite first-rounder, but he has to produce. If Gholston can increase his production and consistently pressure the quarterback, he should be a pick in the top 32.

WalterFootball.com: 2013 NFL Draft Scouting Report: William Gholston

 

[Snake Eyes]

I wouldn't draft for "need" to that extent, and I personally wouldn't take a WR that high. And there are almost always "dynamic players" available in the 2nd round and later. Rob Gronkowski, Matt Forte, Ray Rice, Shady McCoy, DeSean Jackson, Vincent Jackson, Greg Jennings, Torrey Smith ... all 2nd round (and none in the top 40). Mike Wallace and Jimmy Graham in the 3rd. Aaron Hernandez in the 4th. There's no need to reach.

Is there a WR projected in Rd. 1 that can give us anything near the impact of a stud DT like Jesse Williams or Star Lotulelei?

 

[manxman2601]

This is a bit off topic but I just want to pat myself on the back a little. Mychal Kendricks was one of my super binkies pre draft and boy did he look like a quality NFL player in last nights game. Super performance.

OK, self-congratulatory masturbating over. Please carry on.

 

[Off The Grid]

This is a bit off topic but I just want to pat myself on the back a little. Mychal Kendricks was one of my super binkies pre draft and boy did he look like a quality NFL player in last nights game. Super performance.

OK, self-congratulatory masturbating over. Please carry on.

Well, plenty of folks were high on'm, including Brother Mayo and myself, for starters.

That's why he went #46, Bro.

He's an undeniably explosive Prospect.

And I expect that he will forge an impressive career.

I just have questions about his Verticity ~ his ability to Flip the Hips and keep up with Receivers.

And I'm concerned about'is Processing Speed in the Passing Game, as well.

Mind you: Against a Ground + Pound team, he'd be a tremendous Weapon, height be damned.

But I am very wary of spending an huge chunk of Draft Capital on the kind of Prospect who'll help get you to the PlayOffs...but might become a fatal liability once you get to the biggest games of them all.

And those Ground + Pound crews have become pretty hard to find, come late January.

No way I would've drafted this guy at #46.

...Not when my Super Binkie, LaVonte David, was still on the Board!!

Now there is a guy who'll help you win those Grim Battles in the Depths of Winter.

...the ones people remember.

 

[mayoclinic]

No way I would've drafted this guy at #46.

...Not when my Super Binkie, LaVonte David, was still on the Board!!

Now there is a guy who'll help you win those Grim Battles in the Depths of Winter.

...the ones people remember.

I liked Mychal Kendricks, but, like Grid, nowhere near as much as Lavonte David, who went 12 picks later.

 

[mayoclinic]

With Jonathan Fanene a surprise cut today, I could see an increased need for a 4-3 LDE / 3-4 DE / 4-3 interior sub-rusher kind of player. Margus Hunt would probably be the top candidate for this kind of role.

 

[manxman2601]

With Jonathan Fanene a surprise cut today, I could see an increased need for a 4-3 LDE / 3-4 DE / 4-3 interior sub-rusher kind of player. Margus Hunt would probably be the top candidate for this kind of role.

I like Hunt a lot too. But if, as is likely he's a first rounder, would BB take someone that raw? I suppose Chandler Jones says yes but I just wonder whether BB will want someone more able to plug in straight away.

 

[manxman2601]

Well, plenty of folks were high on'm, including Brother Mayo and myself, for starters.

That's why he went #46, Bro.

He's an undeniably explosive Prospect.

And I expect that he will forge an impressive career.

I just have questions about his Verticity ~ his ability to Flip the Hips and keep up with Receivers.

And I'm concerned about'is Processing Speed in the Passing Game, as well.

Mind you: Against a Ground + Pound team, he'd be a tremendous Weapon, height be damned.

But I am very wary of spending an huge chunk of Draft Capital on the kind of Prospect who'll help get you to the PlayOffs...but might become a fatal liability once you get to the biggest games of them all.

And those Ground + Pound crews have become pretty hard to find, come late January.

No way I would've drafted this guy at #46.

...Not when my Super Binkie, LaVonte David, was still on the Board!!

Now there is a guy who'll help you win those Grim Battles in the Depths of Winter.

...the ones people remember.

Well to be fair to me, most sites were projecting him as a fifth or sixth rounder when I latched on to him. But I wasn't really trying to blow my own trumpet, was just pleased to see someone I was high on doing so well.

Having said that, if Mark Barron, Jamell Fleming, Marvin Jones and Akiem Hicks all nail it next year too, I'm applying for a job with the Pats


And yes, I loved Lavonte David too. It still smarts that the Bucs got him, Mark Barron and Doug Martin. God! I'd have loved that draft.

 

[Off The Grid]

I like Hunt a lot too.

Well, sure: We all do.

Well...most'f us, anyway.

But let's try to clean up the language a bit, eh, Brother Manx?? :snob:

 

[Off The Grid]

Well to be fair to me, most sites were projecting him as a fifth or sixth rounder when I latched on to him. But I wasn't really trying to blow my own trumpet, was just pleased to see someone I was high on doing so well.

Having said that, if Mark Barron, Jamell Fleming, Marvin Jones and Akiem Hicks all nail it next year too, I'm applying for a job with the Pats


And yes, I loved Lavonte David too. It still smarts that the Bucs got him, Mark Barron and Doug Martin. God! I'd have loved that draft.

Fair enough.

But to be fair to everyone: Brother Mayo and I were onto'm when most Sites had him as a UFA!!

 

[manxman2601]

Well, sure: We all do.

Well...most'f us, anyway.

But let's try to clean up the language a bit, eh, Brother Manx?? :snob:

I typed that very very carefully.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

We're talking about 2 preseason games right? Maybe we should wait a little before we call him the next Beason.

You don't see me bragging about Russell Wilson and his 110 QB rating, do you?

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Top 10 safeties

1. Shawn Williams, senior, Georgia

In 2011, Williams' (6-1, 217 pounds, 4.55 40-yard dash) first season as a starter, he was able to easily transfer his dominating special teams play onto the field. For a first-year starter, he displayed excellent awareness in coverage, which, combined with his closing burst and ball skills, helped him to close and make plays on the ball consistently. One of the most versatile defenders on the team, Williams has the range to make plays all over the field, which helped him lead the team with 72 tackles along with six pass break-ups and four interceptions a year ago. With the expected improvement of a second year starting, Williams could put himself in position to be the first safety drafted. Projection: Second-round pick

2. Kenny Vaccaro, senior, Texas

A star on special teams in 2010, Vaccaro (6-1, 218, 4.60) played so well in 2011—his first year as a full time starter—that he was named All Conference by the coaches. While he no doubt has to be athletic to play safety for Texas, his football smarts and instincts are what separate him from many similarly talented safeties. He has consistently done an excellent job of getting the secondary aligned correctly, reads the quarterback well so that he can break and close on passes in time to make a play on the ball. Projection: Third-round pick

3. Eric Reid, junior, LSU

One of the most highly publicized defensive backs in the country, Reid (6-2, 212, 4.50) has been making plays since he broke into the starting lineup during his true freshmen season. While he tied for the team lead in tackles in 2011 with 76, he stood out the most making game-changing hits. To be the elite player he has flashed the ability to be, Reid will need to become more consistent in all areas of his play, especially in man coverage and tackling out in space. Reid could move up draft boards to be a first round pick if he plays more disciplined and under control in 2012. Projection: Third-round pick

NFL Draft 2013: Georgia's Shawn Williams tops list of safeties - NFL - Sporting News

Reid in the third round? Yes please.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Well, sure: We all do.

Well...most'f us, anyway.

But let's try to clean up the language a bit, eh, Brother Manx?? :snob:

Post of the day!:rocker:

 

[ay-yo]

I'm personally almost never a fan of drafting WRs high. . . it's hard to project . . .

IMO it's all a crapshoot. QB's get over-drafted and bust all the time. RB's like Maroney, Adaii, Bush and Moreno show that RB's are not exactly a safe selection early either. TE's, Watson and Graham, while not busts, certainly didn't live up the the 1st round selection. With you already mentioning WR's as hard to project, that makes every offensive skill player. OL rarely go in the 1st but when they do they are normally considered a safe pick. The other side of the ball I'm less certain of b/c D players get less media recognition once they are in the league.

I'd love for your input about what positions you feel are hard to project and what positions are easier to project on both sides of the ball.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

IMO it's all a crapshoot. QB's get over-drafted and bust all the time. RB's like Maroney, Adaii, Bush and Moreno show that RB's are not exactly a safe selection early either. TE's, Watson and Graham, while not busts, certainly didn't live up the the 1st round selection. With you already mentioning WR's as hard to project, that makes every offensive skill player. OL rarely go in the 1st but when they do they are normally considered a safe pick. The other side of the ball I'm less certain of b/c D players get less media recognition once they are in the league.

I'd love for your input about what positions you feel are hard to project and what positions are easier to project on both sides of the ball.

Qb is absolutely the hardest position to evaluate. Accuracy and decision making are easy to evauluate in college where the windows are the size of barns, but in the pros with windows the size of tea cups, it really is like a different game. And we have not even begun to talk about the mental side of the position.

I think D Line and O line are the easiest to evaluate, but scheme is very important to their ability to thrive.