Stunningly OT: US - Russia Hockey Game - Best Ever

[Deus Irae]

12 Bruins have a higher +/- than Seguin (+10)
Reilly Smith is +15
Erikson equals Seguins +/- at +10
17 Bruins have a higher +/- than Phil Kessel (+1)..........You miss him too?

Wait.... Are you really try ing to equate +/- from the different teams, and counting the defensemen at the same time?


Yes, you are. Wow. I'm embarassed for you.

 

[Zeus]

Great point. Moving on from a 21 year old guy because he had a bad playoff run, after you jerked him from one line group to the next to the next, is brilliant. :thumb:


It's not as if Seguin's numbers were better than, say, Kessel's, to that point in their careers, or anything, after all.


Oh, wait....

It wasn't the bad playoff run so much as behavior that from what I've heard had been a problem from day one. Had Seguin cared enough to show up last spring, they win the cup.

It's a shame. I had high hopes that they had another Stamkos, but that's not how it turned out.

I do hope Seguin can get his act together because he's a talented player.

 

[borg]

Wait.... Are you really try ing to equate +/- from the different teams, and counting the defensemen at the same time?


Yes, you are. Wow. I'm embarassed for you.

Win the +/-....win the game......it's not really difficult to figure out. You must be a HUGE Kessel fan. I bet you love the dunk contest too!!
As far as Seguin goes......the kid had massive maturity issues ....the kid never fit into their system....And the team is built to win NOW....not in a few years when Seguin finally grows up. The Bruins did invest in the kid with a big contract and Seguin rewarded them with continued off ice issues, an inability to play in the system, and that pathetic playoff performance.....So exactly what is it that you love so much....the occasional flashy goal? Ask yourself what BB would have done to the likes of Seguin?

 

[Deus Irae]

Win the +/-....win the game......it's not really difficult to figure out. You must be a HUGE Kessel fan. I bet you love the dunk contest too!!
As far as Seguin goes......the kid had massive maturity issues ....the kid never fit into their system....And the team is built to win NOW....not in a few years when Seguin finally grows up. The Bruins did invest in the kid with a big contract and Seguin rewarded them with continued off ice issues, an inability to play in the system, and that pathetic playoff performance.....So exactly what is it that you love so much....the occasional flashy goal? Ask yourself what BB would have done to the likes of Seguin?

You're trying to compare, even-up, the +/- ratings of individual players on a top quality 78 point team to the +/- ratings of individual players on a middling and developing 64 point team. Here's the problem with that attempt:

Seguin is one of only 3 players on his entire team to have a double digit positive +/-. The other two are Nichushkin (18 y/o RW) and Benn (D). Boston has 14 players with a +10 or better =/-, and only 5 players with a negative tally. Dallas only has 14 players at +1 or better, and 14 with a 0 or worse =/- rating.

As for Boston being built to win now, that's simply not true. Most of the team is 30 or younger. That team was deliberately built to extend its window. The only currently active players who are over 30:

Kelly
Iginla
Thornton
Chara


And, yeah, when I'm watching a team that struggles to score against good defensive teams, I get to thinking that keeping scorers/playmakers is a good thing.

 

[Zeus]

Here's a pretty good read on why the Bruins decided to move Seguin.

bruins - A closer look at why Tyler Seguin is no longer a Bruin - WEEI | DJ Bean

 

[Deus Irae]

Here's a pretty good read on why the Bruins decided to move Seguin.

bruins - A closer look at why Tyler Seguin is no longer a Bruin - WEEI | DJ Bean

They screwed up, again, with a score first player being forced into Julien's system, and then the team not letting the guy get the room to flourish. There's really no need to read it any further than that. Julien does a lot of great things. Dealing with offense-first scorers/playmakers isn't one of them.

To put it in football terms:

BB looks at AHern and says "He's not much for blocking, but I can move him all over the place. I can play him in the slot, the backfield and on the outside, and I can steal a play or two with him on the end of the line, too.

Julien looks at AHern and says "He can't block worth a damn. Get him out of here."

 

[Zeus]

They screwed up, again, with a score first player being forced into Julien's system, and then the team not letting the guy get the room to flourish. There's really no need to read it any further than that. Julien does a lot of great things. Dealing with offense-first scorers/playmakers isn't one of them.

To put it in football terms:

BB looks at AHern and says "He's not much for blocking, but I can move him all over the place. I can play him in the slot, the backfield and on the outside, and I can steal a play or two with him on the end of the line, too.

Julien looks at AHern and says "He can't block worth a damn. Get him out of here."

It's a bit more complicated than that. This isn't all on Julien. The frustration with Seguin was widespread within the management group. When Cam Neely is frustrated with a player's willingness to compete, that means something to me.

I don't think they screwed up at all and I don't think they have any regrets about the trade. For a lot of reasons, Seguin proved not to be a good fit for the system in place here - a system that has proven to be quite successful over the past several years.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

p.s. - Look what we're talking about here. Don't you miss football?

 

[PatsSox363804]

Here's the thing with Seguin. Yes, they gave up on him too early. Yes, Julien sucks with offensive first players.

That said, He was not going to be given a chance to play center in Boston with Bergeron and Krejci in front of him, and they weren't going to play him on the third line with that contract. In Dallas he gets to play his natural position and he gets more minutes than he ever would have had in Boston. That combined with Neely being pissed at his playoff effort is why he was moved.

My hope is that what we're seeing from Smith is not a fluke and Eriksson can adjust after his concussions (hes had a great olympics, FWIW) and the Bruins are a better team overall going forward with their depth across 4 lines.

 

[borg]

You're trying to compare, even-up, the +/- ratings of individual players on a top quality 78 point team to the +/- ratings of individual players on a middling and developing 64 point team. Here's the problem with that attempt:

Seguin is one of only 3 players on his entire team to have a double digit positive +/-. The other two are Nichushkin (18 y/o RW) and Benn (D). Boston has 14 players with a +10 or better =/-, and only 5 players with a negative tally. Dallas only has 14 players at +1 or better, and 14 with a 0 or worse =/- rating.

As for Boston being built to win now, that's simply not true. Most of the team is 30 or younger. That team was deliberately built to extend its window. The only currently active players who are over 30:

Kelly
Iginla
Thornton
Chara


And, yeah, when I'm watching a team that struggles to score against good defensive teams, I get to thinking that keeping scorers/playmakers is a good thing.

in 2014, Seguin would have consumed 10% of Bruins cap space....a lot of dough for an immature party boy who doesn't fit your system, doesn't back check, underperformed miserably in the playoffs.
Bottom line, Boston determined he wasn't going to grow into the system. Should Boston change the system to fit the high draft pick's skill set?
As far as the" team is built to win now"......I say this based on how the GM has locked up ALL the core players to significant contracts. They believe in this group.....they once believed in Seguin....but their faith eroded pretty quickly.

And lets not exclude the possibility that Seguin had a role in this trade decision. The kid wanted to be a center....thrived there in the juniors. No doubt, in his mind, he was out of position. The Bruins saw it differently....and having gone down a similar road jettisoning another one-way player to the betterment of the team, there was no way Boston was going to go against their system....with a roster built to handle the physicality of the playoffs. Seguin and physicality don't go hand in hand.

PS....how'd all those scorers/playmakers from team USA manage against teams that value a tighter defensive system. Hopefully they can score with the stewardess on the flight back because they sure weren't scoring when it counted....just like Seguin. And did you get a good look at Kessel's game.....if we used basketball terminology, they'd call him a chucker. Never met a shot he didn't like. He'll always have the Slovenia game as a memory though.

 

[Jackson 2]

Silver lining: at least Felger had it stuck up his haughty *****, that douche. He says he's depressed. Poor muffin...

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Seguin's stats from the playoffs last year:

Games: 22
Goals: 1
Assists: 7
+/-: -2

You're right. Julien and the Bruins didn't know what to do with a guy who had world class talent but preferred to stay out carousing all night during the playoffs.

Seguin was a joke in the playoffs turning up very very small.

When Cam Neely is frustrated with a player's willingness to compete, that means something to me.

Yeah that was the final straw for me. I will take his word over a guy on a forum any day of the week

 

[Tunescribe]

Silver lining: at least Felger had it stuck up his haughty *****, that douche. He says he's depressed. Poor muffin...

That guy has gotten so insufferably arrogant just over the past year it makes me wanna puke. He has no regard for his audience and I look forward to the day it comes back to bite him.

 

[italian pat patriot]

great great tournament with excellent teams

Canada Sweden Usa Finland Russia...

i love hockey at olympics !!!

 

[Wheelman]

:canadaflag::first::canada::clap2::woot::woohoo:

 

[Froob]

Canada still sucks.

 

[SEA_Pat]

Man, that was a clinic. Too bad the Swedes lost all their Centers, that really handicapped them. But they were dominated by the forecheck and cycling, never had much of a chance. Lundquist looked like Custer at Little Bighorn for long stretches of play.

Yeah, I love Olympic hockey. Let's have another Canada Cup-like tournament every two years on the big ice. Hell, let's make it outdoors! Who wouldn't go for that?

 

[50-yard-line]

Here's a pretty good read on why the Bruins decided to move Seguin.

bruins - A closer look at why Tyler Seguin is no longer a Bruin - WEEI | DJ Bean

That's really a great article.

Seguin's got all the talent in the world - nobody doubts that. If the NHL went to International rules and more room, he'd be someone I'd grab in a heartbeat.

In the NHL, I'll take guys like Bergeron. Sequin's like Kessell - they both play soft.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Congrats to my Canuck boys. That was perhaps the most measured and disciplined hockey game I've ever watched.

 

[Husse]

Congratulations to Canada, they were clearly the better team today and I don't think any center could have changed that.

I thought we had a chance early in the game when Nyquist had a shot in the post, but from around the mid-point of the first period and onward it was all Canada. Lundquist kept us in the game way longer than we deserved.

Still proud considering Sweden's population is about half as big as that of New York and we beat Finland, a loss to them would have felt worse than this loss.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Canada still sucks.

Which one are you?

Congratulations to Canada, they were clearly the better team today and I don't think any center could have changed that.

I thought we had a chance early in the game when Nyquist had a shot in the post, but from around the mid-point of the first period and onward it was all Canada. Lundquist kept us in the game way longer than we deserved.

Still proud considering Sweden's population is about half as big as that of New York and we beat Finland, a loss to them would have felt worse than this loss.

Congrats to Sweden as well. Sweden really overachieved when you think about the injuries and adversity they faced. To even make it to the final was pretty crazy.

That shot off the post could have changed the tone of the game, but it was just another bounce that went our way. While I feel Canada was the better team today, Sweden has found ways to beat many better teams and pulled off great wins despite being short-handed throughout the tournament so we weren't taking them lightly.

Silver is sometimes seen as losing the gold, and sometimes that's true. But as several Canadian Olympians mentioned, it can also mean you won the silver. The Swedes should feel like they won that silver, not just with today's performance, but as their just reward for a tournament filled with over-achievement.