Study finds 99% of donated brains have CTE

[Tony2046]

Exactly what I was going to say. I don't want to minimize the issue becasue obviously it's a big and important one, but any study like this would be more useful if they could get players (or I guess just regular folks too) who don't have concerning symptoms to be part of a control group. Difficult, of course, to accomplish. As it stands now, if people project what this headline is saying, you are basically led to believe that every single person who plays or played professional football will end up with CTE, and I don't think that can be an accurate statement.

I believe it's not just football. I think, from what I've read, that it's the cumulative total of hits to the head over one's lifetime. I've wrestled, played football (High School only) and fought too much in my younger years and I honestly believe I have some minor symptoms of CTE. Actually when I first read about some of the symptoms I felt somewhat relieved. Anyways my issues are nothing compared to what some of these athletes are experiencing but my point is that I do believe that it doesn't take many brain jarring hits to the head to get CTE.

 

[PatsDeb]

I believe it's not just football. I think, from what I've read, that it's the cumulative total of hits to the head over one's lifetime. I've wrestled, played football (High School only) and fought too much in my younger years and I honestly believe I have some minor symptoms of CTE. Actually when I first read about some of the symptoms I felt somewhat relieved. Anyways my issues are nothing compared to what some of these athletes are experiencing but my point is that I do believe that it doesn't take many brain jarring hits to the head to get CTE.

Sorry to hear that you are having issues. It is scary stuff for sure.

 

[primetime]

Primetime. You are one hell of a poster. I've learned a lot from posts like these (not just from you) over the years. Thanks


Side note: Just had an enlightening discussion with someone using links and info you provided the forum regarding a particular book the other day. Thanks again.

Thanks man, I appreciate it.

 

[primetime]

Find you a good youth rugby program. It's flag or touch until like 9th grade, so they can learn the game (and how to properly tackle) without putting a hurting on their developing brains.

There's really no specialization, either. Everyone runs, passes, catches, carries, kicks, and tackles.

Rugby might involve safer tackling, but I roomed with a rugby player in college and like half the team ended up quitting because of chronic concussion problems. All it takes is a head hitting a knee by accident or a head slamming against the turf, and that seems like it happens fairly regularly in rugby despite the safer tackling techniques.

The research on CTE suggests it's all contact sports, including sports like hockey and lacrosse where contact to the head is incidental or penalized but still part and parcel of the game, and including sports like rugby that include sound tackling techniques. Football and boxing are probably the worst, of course, but the danger doesn't end there. The human skull and brain just don't seem to be conditioned to accept long-term exposure to physical blows without severe degeneration.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Can't say I'm surprised.

If this continues down the path I think it will and science is able to diagnose CTE in living people, you gotta wonder in 50 years what level of significance football will still have in our society.

Well, football changed significantly once, around the turn of the last century, to deal with the extreme injuries then, and today's game plays a lot differently even though it's fundamentally the same. If studies continue to show results like this, I'd imagine in 50 years either football will have a similar 2nd change, or it will be a niche fallen-from-grace sport like boxing today.

I read an article recently with ideas on how to change the game to limit the effects. It was interesting and eye-opening, even if I didn't agree with all the changes. The general concept was to make more one-on-one battles, make perfect form tackling the only legal way to tackle, and emphasize speed versus strength.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Can't say I'm surprised.

If this continues down the path I think it will and science is able to diagnose CTE in living people, you gotta wonder in 50 years what level of significance football will still have in our society.

I think football is dead. Just doesn't know it yet.
Fortunately, brain imaging tech is advancing rapidly. Hopefully we will be able to diagnose CTE, alzheimers, etc.
I think closer to 10 years rather than 50 is a more realistic timeframe for football insignificance.

 

[Tony2046]

Sorry to hear that you are having issues. It is scary stuff for sure.

Thanks but to be clear my issues are not serious and could be from something else. But I will not let my ten year old son play contact football until I know more which if Roger and the rest of the NFL buffoons had not played tobacco type games with the concussion issue we may have already known more. Researchers may have already had a way of testing living candidates which would be an invaluable tool for parents to monitor the health of their athletic children. But until then my kids are not playing contact sports. Baseball, basketball, flag football, soccer without heading etc... sure. Tackle football and hockey are out.

FTR: I don't think negatively about anyone who does allow their children to play contact sports. It's only what I've decided to do for my kids.

 

[Fixit]

Rugby might involve safer tackling, but I roomed with a rugby player in college and like half the team ended up quitting because of chronic concussion problems. All it takes is a head hitting a knee by accident or a head slamming against the turf, and that seems like it happens fairly regularly in rugby despite the safer tackling techniques.

The research on CTE suggests it's all contact sports, including sports like hockey and lacrosse where contact to the head is incidental or penalized but still part and parcel of the game, and including sports like rugby that include sound tackling techniques. Football and boxing are probably the worst, of course, but the danger doesn't end there. The human skull and brain just don't seem to be conditioned to accept long-term exposure to physical blows without severe degeneration.

I got a concussion playing high school basketball, and also when I was weed whacking a lawn and walked into a sign. Still normal! Ish.

The odd concussion isn't the actual problem per se. CTE is the result of repeated blows to the head, and the danger is increased dramatically when those blows are introduced at a young age. It's exactly why as soon as I knew my kid (who's big) would be pigeonholed as an offensive lineman, I said nope and looked for alternatives. Fortunately, I hit on one he absolutely loves (two, if you count judo).

As I said, a good rugby program doesn't involve real tackling until kids have learned the game and physically matured. Also, head hits aren't tolerated in rugby. They happen sometimes, but the head-to-head variety isn't very common, nor are reckless tackles in general (you get ejected, no replacements allowed). No one uses their head as a weapon. Respect for your fellow players' safety is refreshingly part of the culture. And the rugby governing bodies, unlike the NFL, actually take their HIAs seriously.

Is the youth rugby route absolutely safe? Of course not, but nothing is. Is it much safer than the youth football route? By a mile. I stand by my recommendation, you hear me?!?

 

[bbobbo]

Well, football changed significantly once, around the turn of the last century, to deal with the extreme injuries then, and today's game plays a lot differently even though it's fundamentally the same. If studies continue to show results like this, I'd imagine in 50 years either football will have a similar 2nd change, or it will be a niche fallen-from-grace sport like boxing today.

I read an article recently with ideas on how to change the game to limit the effects. It was interesting and eye-opening, even if I didn't agree with all the changes. The general concept was to make more one-on-one battles, make perfect form tackling the only legal way to tackle, and emphasize speed versus strength.

I think football is dead. Just doesn't know it yet.
Fortunately, brain imaging tech is advancing rapidly. Hopefully we will be able to diagnose CTE, alzheimers, etc.
I think closer to 10 years rather than 50 is a more realistic timeframe for football insignificance.

i posted this a couple of weeks ago.

WIRED | Inside the High-Tech Flag Football League That's Taking on the NFL

you can actually watch the entire launch game online:



excitement is lacking, though--it really is just an exhibition game where nothing is at stake. using a four-second clock to record "sacks" is lame. they need blocking and rushing the passer.

even these games are more exciting, despite the quality of play being way worse:

 

[Wordsmyth]

Quote's from some article, but the press release for the study it's referencing is here: Evidence Suggests Amateur Contact Sports Increase Risk of Degenerative Disorder

Thank ya, sir. Added that link to my Favorites.

 

[Jimke]

My kids won't be going near organized football games, and I'll probably think long and hard about letting them play hockey or lacrosse or anything of the sort. And I played minor league pro hockey. Soccer's a good game, anyways.

How about heading the ball in soccer?

 

[zydecochris]

I think football is dead. Just doesn't know it yet.
Fortunately, brain imaging tech is advancing rapidly. Hopefully we will be able to diagnose CTE, alzheimers, etc.
I think closer to 10 years rather than 50 is a more realistic timeframe for football insignificance.

I promise I'm not going to highjack the thread (and put everybody to sleep) but in addition to advances in brain imaging tech that you talk about, several research institution are also studying very sophisticated ways of tracking eye movement to assess concussions, damage from previous concussions, and other brain injury. A very crude version of this (waving a light and tracking eye movement) has long been performed on the field, perhaps more sophisticated ways of this type of concussion and brain damage diagnosis may be on the way.

 

[Fixit]

How about heading the ball in soccer?

All the youth leagues near me ban it until 13 years old, I think. I get the sense that this is becoming a pretty common rule change nationwide.

 

[PatsGuy]

My kids won't be going near organized football games, and I'll probably think long and hard about letting them play hockey or lacrosse or anything of the sort. And I played minor league pro hockey. Soccer's a good game, anyways.

An FYI my daughter is 27 now but back whenever, she played a high level n aggressive brand of soccer. She sustained a broken leg, a broken wrist and a concussion (she had to b taken to an ER for x-rays) she's fine but nevertheless soccer in itself can b physical

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think football is dead. Just doesn't know it yet.
Fortunately, brain imaging tech is advancing rapidly. Hopefully we will be able to diagnose CTE, alzheimers, etc.
I think closer to 10 years rather than 50 is a more realistic timeframe for football insignificance.

My wife's aunt has Alzheimers and we were visiting her just last week and my father in law (her brother) had a conversation with the doctor on that topic. He said he same thing you did.

Incredible.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

110
N.F.L. Brains
A neuropathologist has examined the brains of 111 N.F.L. players — and 110 were found to have C.T.E., the degenerative disease linked to repeated blows to the head.

111 N.F.L. Brains. All But One Had C.T.E.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

New CTE study - it's BAD NEWS.

Just saw this, headline on CNN's front page was "Out of 111 former NFL players, only 1 didn't have CTE".

From the story:

"Out of 202 deceased former football players total -- a combination of high school, college and professional players -- CTE was neuropathologically diagnosed in 177, the study said. The disease was identified in 110 out of 111 former NFL players. It was also found in three of the 14 high school players and 48 of the 53 college players.".​

Not good.

NFL: CTE found in 99% of studied brains from deceased players - CNN.com

And this is the reason that football as we know it will continue to dramatically change in the future

Parents are going to continue to Opt out of having their kids play this sport which is already inherently risky as it is.. but when you combine that with some of the personalities of other players and their parents, who essentially embrace a dangerous/dirty play style is just added levels of danger

There will always be a contingent of players willing to risk it all, but the overall quality of talent could suffer as kids go into other sports at a younger age

 

[PatriotsReign]

I believe it's not just football. I think, from what I've read, that it's the cumulative total of hits to the head over one's lifetime. I've wrestled, played football (High School only) and fought too much in my younger years and I honestly believe I have some minor symptoms of CTE. Actually when I first read about some of the symptoms I felt somewhat relieved. Anyways my issues are nothing compared to what some of these athletes are experiencing but my point is that I do believe that it doesn't take many brain jarring hits to the head to get CTE.

Your experience is like reading my life. I don't know how old you are, but I'm 58.

I had a lot of fights as a kid. Mostly up to 13-14 years old. But I got in a couple of big ones in my early 20's. In both of them, other guys jump in with kicks and punches.

I also got in one car accident where my chin smashed into the steering wheel.

And like you, I wrestled and played football in high school. And if alcohol is good for the brain, I'm out of luck there....quit in '89

 

[PatriotsReign]

I think football is dead. Just doesn't know it yet.
Fortunately, brain imaging tech is advancing rapidly. Hopefully we will be able to diagnose CTE, alzheimers, etc.
I think closer to 10 years rather than 50 is a more realistic timeframe for football insignificance.

You may be right, but boxing and cage fighting must be a lot worse. Not that it's any consolation

 

[RobertWeathers]

An FYI my daughter is 27 now but back whenever, she played a high level n aggressive brand of soccer. She sustained a broken leg, a broken wrist and a concussion (she had to b taken to an ER for x-rays) she's fine but nevertheless soccer in itself can b physical

My 14 year old little girl plays varsity as an 8th grader and it is like she's Rodney Harrison on the soccer field . Scares the crap out of Mrs RW and I.

Shes had a concussion and I'm sure it won't be her last.