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Study finds 99% of donated brains have CTE


The heading can pose problems, according to some.

They can cause concussions (which is why heading has been banned for under 13s), but so can tennis or basketball or walking down the stairs. There's obviously no definitive statement on what causes CTE, but the suspicion is the accumulation of regular low-grade trauma, not isolated major incidents (football has both). But you're right, it's still something to be concerned about.
 
Plus the fact football is such an awesome sport it would be sad to lose it. And I don't really watch other sports anymore.

Good reason to keep a sport that's literally killing its participants around without their knowledge, really. "I'll have to do something else on Sunday!"
 
Studies still say that NFL players live longer, healthier lives than the rest of the population. However, it seems that nearly all players have CTE. If we take St Omalu at his word that CTE is a killer, then that maths just doesn't add up.

I have read some top neurologists blogs and they say that CTE is an evolving science, and that we really don't know how serious it is. Yes people will have it, but what damage does it really do?

They go on to say that we are framing everything through the idea we know CTE is cataclysmic. Player has depression, that is the CTE, player has drug issues, that is the CTE, player drinks too much, that is the CTE, player beats his wife, that is the CTE, player shoots himself, that is the CTE, house burns down, that is the CTE.....These are real world problems and you don't need to have got banged up for them to happen.

I say again, every player has CTE, NFL players live longer and healthier This needs more studying.
 
I'm glad I got to watch my nephew play 4 years of high school football.

He played QB and safety and started varsity 2 years at both. His team ran a read-option and I had a blast watching him.

I asked him Monday night if he thought he ever got his head dinged and he said he doubted it. He said he never lead with his head running or tackling
 
Studies still say that NFL players live longer, healthier lives than the rest of the population. However, it seems that nearly all players have CTE. If we take St Omalu at his word that CTE is a killer, then that maths just doesn't add up.

Again, another example of "headline science." In every case of these kinds of studies, it's worth taking a look at the actual studies or at least the abstracts, because the headlines tend to generalize findings that shouldn't be and rarely discuss the limitations to the study that the authors normally address up front.

The NIOSH study was published in 1994 and its sample included only players who had played 5 or more seasons in the NFL and by its own admission included very few men who had reached 50 years of age at the time of the study. If you read this article in the newspaper of record but didn't click over to the abstract, you wouldn't see such a limitation mentioned.

Findings suggested that this cohort of NFL players had lower mortality rates at the ages they had reached than a general population that were from the same ages. However, it also found that football players, particularly linemen and black players, were at an increased risk of heart disease (number one cause of mortality in the developed world), almost certainly due to body size, and had no difference in incidence of cancer. They were less likely to suffer from accidental death or death by violence than the general population.

They had higher incidence of ALS, too, which could be alarming (if it's not by chance, as the authors suggest) because CTE is hypothesized as one potential cause of ALS. Kevin Turner had ALS and CTE pathology was found in his brain, for instance.

What the study didn't do was compare them to a control group of non-NFL players of similar socioeconomic status. Accidental and violent death are much more common among people of low socioeconomic status, and that's not a category most NFL players who played for five or more seasons fall into after their playing careers.

In other words, up to age 50, it seems NFL players (who played 5 seasons up to 1988) were less likely to die than a similar cohort of the general population. However, they may also be just as likely to die as a similar socioeconomic cohort, and their life expectancy at age 50 (I'm a demographer; we notate this with e50; e0 is life expectancy at birth) may be much lower than the norm. We don't know; there aren't any studies to tell us.

I agree that there's an overdetermination of co-morbidity when it comes to CTE, but the actual effects aren't exactly unknown. The pathology is similar to senile dementia or Alzheimer's, and we know what those do, and as mentioned it's a hypothesized cause of Parkinson's and ALS.

Even people with early onset Alzheimer's or dementia, which this is perhaps most comparable to, can live up to or beyond the expected age at death for someone of their gender and socioeconomic status. It's not just a question of mortality, though that's what grabs the headlines (aided no doubt by the fact that all cases of CTE have been recorded in dead people due to limitations in screening) but a question of morbidity and quality of life.

See Earl Campbell or Muhammad Ali for instance. The former is age 62, the latter died at 74, which is right around life expectancy at birth for a black male. But Ali lived for 30+ years as a walking zombie, diagnosed with Parkinson's (a disease that's hypothesized to be related to CTE, at least as one way it's acquired), unable to care for himself. Campbell may live to be 80, but he's incapable of speaking in complete sentences. It's not just premature death.
 
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Again, another example of "headline science." In every case of these kinds of studies, it's worth taking a look at the actual studies or at least the abstracts, because the headlines tend to generalize findings that shouldn't be and rarely discuss the limitations to the study that the authors normally address up front.

The NIOSH study was published in 1994 and its sample included only players who had played 5 or more seasons in the NFL and by its own admission included very few men who had reached 50 years of age at the time of the study. If you read this article in the newspaper of record but didn't click over to the abstract, you wouldn't see such a limitation mentioned.

Findings suggested that this cohort of NFL players had lower mortality rates at the ages they had reached than a general population that were from the same ages. However, it also found that football players, particularly linemen and black players, were at an increased risk of heart disease (number one cause of mortality in the developed world), almost certainly due to body size, and had no difference in incidence of cancer. They were less likely to suffer from accidental death or death by violence than the general population.

They had higher incidence of ALS, too, which could be alarming (if it's not by chance, as the authors suggest) because CTE is hypothesized as one potential cause of ALS. Kevin Turner had ALS and CTE pathology was found in his brain, for instance.

What the study didn't do was compare them to a control group of non-NFL players of similar socioeconomic status. Accidental and violent death are much more common among people of low socioeconomic status, and that's not a category most NFL players who played for five or more seasons fall into after their playing careers.

In other words, up to age 50, it seems NFL players (who played 5 seasons up to 1988) were less likely to die than a similar cohort of the general population. However, they may also be just as likely to die as a similar socioeconomic cohort, and their life expectancy at age 50 (I'm a demographer; we notate this with e50; e0 is life expectancy at birth) may be much lower than the norm. We don't know; there aren't any studies to tell us.

I agree that there's an overdetermination of co-morbidity when it comes to CTE, but the actual effects aren't exactly unknown. The pathology is similar to senile dementia or Alzheimer's, and we know what those do, and as mentioned it's a hypothesized cause of Parkinson's and ALS.

Even people with early onset Alzheimer's or dementia, which this is perhaps most comparable to, can live up to or beyond the expected age at death for someone of their gender and socioeconomic status. It's not just a question of mortality, though that's what grabs the headlines (aided no doubt by the fact that all cases of CTE have been recorded in dead people due to limitations in screening) but a question of morbidity and quality of life.

See Earl Campbell or Muhammad Ali for instance. The former is age 62, the latter died at 74, which is right around life expectancy at birth for a black male. But Ali lived for 30+ years as a walking zombie, diagnosed with Parkinson's (a disease that's hypothesized to be related to CTE, at least as one way it's acquired), unable to care for himself. Campbell may live to be 80, but he's incapable of speaking in complete sentences. It's not just premature death.


It is a fascinating post. That is the point, we don't know. If every player has CTE, the way Will Smith talks, they should all be walking around with their brain dribbling out if their ears. There has become a simplistic narrative that 'player gets CTE, player becomes a mess' and just by looking at the old players, you know there isn't such a simple cause and effect. We won't know exactly what CTE has done until we have really studied it, this is what the scientists are saying. Will Smith however, has made a career treating it like an exact science, which is just stupid. Actually it isn't as he is famous.

Getting smashed in the head helmet to helmet by a 250 pound black man probably isn't gonna do you so many favours, but talk of banning contact is stupid. You would have to ban rugby, boxing, heading, MMA. And all for a presumption that we know what the risk factors are.
 
The assumption is that the sports will die naturally as parents rightly remove their kids from the sport.

Boxing's already dead. MMA, at least, is taken up by adults who have some knowledge of the risk. If people who have reached their majority want to get their head bashed in despite knowing the risks, that's fine. It's when parents are putting kids in these sports with no understanding of the risks, that's the issue.
 
Studies still say that NFL players live longer, healthier lives than the rest of the population. However, it seems that nearly all players have CTE. If we take St Omalu at his word that CTE is a killer, then that maths just doesn't add up.

I have read some top neurologists blogs and they say that CTE is an evolving science, and that we really don't know how serious it is. Yes people will have it, but what damage does it really do?

They go on to say that we are framing everything through the idea we know CTE is cataclysmic. Player has depression, that is the CTE, player has drug issues, that is the CTE, player drinks too much, that is the CTE, player beats his wife, that is the CTE, player shoots himself, that is the CTE, house burns down, that is the CTE.....These are real world problems and you don't need to have got banged up for them to happen.

I say again, every player has CTE, NFL players live longer and healthier This needs more studying.
Not to mention we don't have so much data from recent NFL players. We need to see if players now with the newer rules are being affected in the same way those who played 20-30 years did.
 
The heading can pose problems, according to some.
glad when I played I was too much of a "wimp" to head the ball. It just never felt right. And I played for such small stakes nobody cared.
 
I don't even understand anything at all related to that guy's mathematics research. I'm so glad he's retiring. A brain like that should not be wasted on football.
 
I don't even understand anything at all related to that guy's mathematics research. I'm so glad he's retiring. A brain like that should not be wasted on football.
I think even without all of this stuff, it makes sense for him to retire. Too smart of a guy, needs to showcase his true talents and his true passion.
 
Here is an article on the subject written for the general public that I thought was fairly comprehensible:

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2017/07/the_press_is_overhyping_the_latest_study_on_cte_in_the_nfl.html
It was comprehensible, but just as poorly reasoned as the media reports it opened by criticizing.

It went off the rails at the point that the author started hypothesizing about the actual occurrence rate for CTE and then tried discussing what that would mean in reality. The problem starts with the phrase "The BU team provides a long list of potential consequences of having CTE" when the author neglects that potential is far from universal. The rest of the story uses flawed logic to downplay CTE because those potential consequences are not universally observed.

I'll give the story a D- for that. Would be higher for the legit criticism of other media reports but loses a lot of points for making exactly the mistake he criticizes them about.
 
The Ravens website doesn't mention this (shocker), but the ESPN article cites a team source who says that his decision was specifically related to the results of the study. Timing isn't a coincidence. Good for him, but I have to imagine this is sending up alarm bells throughout the Commissioner's office.
It's great to see BU heading this research, but the lack of a comparison group tells me that we've got a lot of work to do before drawing too much from this study.

That said, the fact that there was correlation between college/pro levels and more serious "damage" also says that they're certainly onto something. I can see why it's scaring players and I think it's going to continue to gain a fair amount of attention.
 
Good reason to keep a sport that's literally killing its participants around without their knowledge, really. "I'll have to do something else on Sunday!"

A sport that's killing its participants around without there knowledge? Seriously? You think these players don't know the risks?

Edit: If your referring to children, then I guess you have a point. I just can't say that 60-80 lb kids running into each other with there under developed bodies is really going to cause problems for them for the rest of there lives.


If we started outlawing everything that was bad for us.. I would say a large percentage of business would be made illegal over night.

Boxing died because it was corrupt, and some other reasons. I think MMA is growing.
 
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A sport that's killing its participants around without there knowledge? Seriously? You think these players don't know the risks?

Edit: If your referring to children, then I guess you have a point. I just can't say that 60-80 lb kids running into each other with there under developed bodies is really going to cause problems for them for the rest of there lives.


If we started outlawing everything that was bad for us.. I would say a large percentage of business would be made illegal over night.

Boxing died because it was corrupt, and some other reasons. I think MMA is growing.

Players did not know the risks of CTE or brain damage before approximately 2010. The NFL denied it. They even sent pamphlets to all players stating that concussions posed no long term dangers to players in the NFL.

Children playing football could be at a higher risk as their brains aren't yet fully developed.

The problem is how the NFL has handled this. They knew about the problem twenty years ago and squashed it as long as they could without any concerns about what uniformed decisions the parents were making for their kids who were playing the game.
 
Study finds 99% of donated brains have CTE

This really does shed a light on Frankenstein's monster.
 


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