New CTE Study

[Joey007]

I think I just get the impression that people are starting to pass around a narrative that “if you ever play football, there is a 100% chance that your brain will be mush before age 50.” Which is just untrue.

 

[mosslost]

So if every player gets CTE like the doctor claims, it makes me wonder: are the vast majority of cases of CTE very mild? How many people have you seen that played football that went on to live normal lives? Too many to count.

it depends on what normal is. I have listened to a lot of interviews with former players you would call normal who rail on their quality life, headaches, confusion, etc. I don't know, I am no expert, but obviously society is beginning to talk about this.

Football was almost banned way back at the turn of the 20th century, but President Teddy Roosevelt stepped in. He insisted the America needed football, and felt like it would be bad for America to lose the game... So he insisted the various leagues, colleges etc adopt the forward pass, which was considered lame at the time, to change the game to more finesse...

Anything is possible.

 

[jah]

VR or robots in 50 yrs.

It would be pretty cool to coach an entirely robotic set of players....not as a replacement for real football, but I'd watch it in June.

 

[Joey007]

it depends on what normal is. I have listened to a lot of interviews with former players you would call normal who rail on their quality life, headaches, confusion, etc. I don't know, I am no expert, but obviously society is beginning to talk about this.

Football was almost banned way back at the turn of the 20th century, but President Teddy Roosevelt stepped in. He insisted the America needed football, and felt like it would be bad for America to lose the game... So he insisted the various leagues, colleges etc adopt the forward pass, which was considered lame at the time, to change the game to more finesse...

Anything is possible.

Former players at what level though? There’s a big difference, because an extreme majority won’t even play into college.

The hits are far more mild in high school since the competition is lower. If one makes it professionally, they are being compensated very well to play it.

 

[jah]

I don’t hate the stuff, but if you try to get me to watch E Sports over actual sports, yeah I’ll never do it.

And this comes from someone who classifies as a millennial, so I suppose I am still a part of that future generation.

I don't think E Sports are replacing physical sports any time soon. While gamers in 2018 are essentially meathead jocks who play video games instead of sports, I don't think the two demographics have much overlap. Your previous post kind of highlights the visceral disgust the two sides express toward one another even though they're a lot more alike than they want to believe.

Maybe the disconnect will be filled sooner than I think, but nah, I don't expect people who watch sports to switch to watching video games...nor should they.

To expose my potential biases: I'm 22, I don't really play either video games or sports, but hang out with a lot more "video game" people than "sports" people.

 

[Angelpats]

I don’t hate the stuff, but if you try to get me to watch E Sports over actual sports, yeah I’ll never do it.

And this comes from someone who classifies as a millennial, so I suppose I am still a part of that future generation.

I can’t watch people play games either. I just wanted to make sure what my kids were doing and watching was appropriate. There is an audience for it and it’s growing. They have actual robot fighting too.

 

[long distance]

There's a reason rugby is played w/o helmets. There's blood . but healthier rest of life . unless you count alcohol..

There's also a reason football is more popular. Helmet is more like a weapon that enables more violent, reckless .. spectacular game. Take it away (as a weapon) and you lose big part of the audience and money. But you don't necessary lose football.

Like helmets offer fake security . NFL (fans inc.) offers a lot of fake concern for player safety.

 

[Joey007]

I don't think E Sports are replacing physical sports any time soon. While gamers in 2018 are essentially meathead jocks who play video games instead of sports, I don't think the two demographics have much overlap. Your previous post kind of highlights the visceral disgust the two sides express toward one another even though they're a lot more alike than they want to believe.

Maybe the disconnect will be filled sooner than I think, but nah, I don't expect people who watch sports to switch to watching video games...nor should they.

To expose my potential biases: I'm 22, I don't really play either video games or sports, but hang out with a lot more "video game" people than "sports" people.

My thing is that I like video games. And I like sports. I just don’t like combining them to that extent. Give me one to play myself, and I’d say video games since I’m lazier nowadays. But give me an event to watch and I’ll always pick sports. They are their own separate activities IMO.

 

[Angelpats]

I don't think E Sports are replacing physical sports any time soon. While gamers in 2018 are essentially meathead jocks who play video games instead of sports, I don't think the two demographics have much overlap. Your previous post kind of highlights the visceral disgust the two sides express toward one another even though they're a lot more alike than they want to believe.

Maybe the disconnect will be filled sooner than I think, but nah, I don't expect people who watch sports to switch to watching video games...nor should they.

To expose my potential biases: I'm 22, I don't really play either video games or sports, but hang out with a lot more "video game" people than "sports" people.

I don’t think people will be switching from sports to games either. What I notice is more and more kids are watching games instead of sports. My nieces and nephews and most of their school friends, ages 6 through 11, watch people play games too. Like us, i don’t think they will easily switch interests once they established them.

 

[Joey007]

I can’t watch people play games either. I just wanted to make sure what my kids were doing and watching was appropriate. There is an audience for it and it’s growing. They have actual robot fighting too.

Yeah, I just think it’s a different type of audience that isn’t in completion with contact sports.

I like watching the World Series of Poker, but I won’t watch it over an NFL game or consider it an alternative.

 

[Angelpats]

There's a reason rugby is played w/o helmets. There's blood . but healthier rest of life . unless you count alcohol..

There's also a reason football is more popular. Helmet is more like a weapon that enables more violent, reckless .. spectacular game. Take it away (as a weapon) and you lose big part of the audience and money. But you don't necessary lose football.

Like helmets offer fake security . NFL (fans inc.) offers a lot of fake concern for player safety.

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Football is different than rugby. Lots of kids play pickup football with their friends with no helmets and get concussed often. Only way to change that is through culture and rules defining the game, then it won’t be football anymore.

 

[mosslost]

Like helmets offer fake security

helmets are the reason their are less deaths in football then there used to be actually. Helmets offer very real security to a football player actually. Before with the leather you had less concussions, more broken skulls.

 

[mosi]

Parents of the future be like.

The sad part, is that is not enough. This result has been in the works for a while and more data will be coming. I may have actually posted these ideas (not mine) over a year ago as they were already being discussed in the scientific community. There is a desire to find a true biomarker that can be used to help identify those that will progress and will no. Some interesting, but unpleasant animal models are also being developed.

 

[mosi]

I think I just get the impression that people are starting to pass around a narrative that “if you ever play football, there is a 100% chance that your brain will be mush before age 50.” Which is just untrue.

"Biology is not absolute" is my take home phrase that every student, medical or PhD, remembers me by. Smoking does not cause cancer in 100% of the people, Poliovirus does not cause polio is 100% of the people it infects. Heck, even Ebola does not kill 100% of the people it infects (although that is damn close!).

It might be that only 1% of those that have repeated collisions get CTE. But how do you know if you are that 1%? Remember, the general population has a relative rate of about 0.001% (I think) so the risk is there.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

helmets are the reason their are less deaths in football then there used to be actually. Helmets offer very real security to a football player actually. Before with the leather you had less concussions, more broken skulls.

yep. college students used to die on the field until teddy r came along and founded the ncaa.

check out the “big scrum” book by john miller. very informative for football junkies.

the problem is these younger generation players are not coached properly with how to tackle.

look at that rookie saints safety the other night...he throws his head forward, lowers it and does an aerial dive like an idiot.

the technique is wrong and they are much stronger and faster...bad combo

 

[jah]

My thing is that I like video games. And I like sports. I just don’t like combining them to that extent. Give me one to play myself, and I’d say video games since I’m lazier nowadays. But give me an event to watch and I’ll always pick sports. They are their own separate activities IMO.

I've always thought that putting the word "sports" in "E Sports" was an invitation to compare apples and oranges. I picture a Venn diagram with skill on one side, athletic ability on the other, with sports being the intersection.

Of course, I also love to say that if baseball is a sport, so is video games.

 

[jah]

"Biology is not absolute" is my take home phrase that every student, medical or PhD, remembers me by. Smoking does not cause cancer in 100% of the people, Poliovirus does not cause polio is 100% of the people it infects. Heck, even Ebola does not kill 100% of the people it infects (although that is damn close!).

It might be that only 1% of those that have repeated collisions get CTE. But how do you know if you are that 1%? Remember, the general population has a relative rate of about 0.001% (I think) so the risk is there.

Non-sarcastic question: are you a professor/doctor? Asking because of the bold part, not because I doubt your credibility.

 

[mosi]

Non-sarcastic question: are you a professor/doctor? Asking because of the bold part, not because I doubt your credibility.

Yes. Our lab works primarily in cancer research but we have been asked to start doing brain injury related work. I have gone to some seminars on CTE and the data are pretty shocking. But again, the vast majority of people who have repetitive collisions and even concussions will not get CTE. All this paper says is that markers associated with this process (but not known if they are directly related) can be observed early in these patients. Now their animal data does suggest that the biology observed in the brains of these 4 people are associated with brain dysfunction in an animal model.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I've always thought that putting the word "sports" in "E Sports" was an invitation to compare apples and oranges. I picture a Venn diagram with skill on one side, athletic ability on the other, with sports being the intersection.

Of course, I also love to say that if baseball is a sport, so is video games.

I'm biased. I watch a lot of League of Legends. I think it's a fascinating game. As a game with established teams, coaches, training structures, regular scrims with opponents, strategy, tactics, etc, I see a lot of similarity to football. Obviously the players don't have to be big and strong and fast, but they do need incredible reflexes and must be able to mechanically control their characters well. With ranked ladders in the millions, these guys are the top %0.0001 of the player base. They have an elite skillset, even if it's not the same one you'd find in a wide receiver or nose tackle.

The teams have different regions and leagues, with broadcasters, international events, and significant cash prizes (in the millions). It's not a traditional athletic demonstration, but I do think it qualifies as a sport in the sense that it encourages intense competition and entertains the onlookers, etc.

Given the option between my kids suffering CTE, and dealing with sore wrists from gaming too much, it's an easy choice in terms of which sport I'd prefer they enjoy.

 

[PScottman]

so that your head wouldn't move on impact

It has little to do with head movement - it's the movement of the brain inside the brainpan itself. The impact is absorbed and because liquid doesn't compress, the brain itself is instead absorbing the impact energy and in some cases slamming against the inner wall of the skull.

The equipment would need to initially absorb AND then somehow disperse outward away from the skull the energy produced by the hit.