Sidy Sow - Conflicting Opinions

[Sicilian]

BB has certainly put the OL in dangerous shape with his GM moves over the last few years. It used to be the foregone conclusion that OL was the most consistent and solid unit. The last few years they have been one of the most unknown/unreliable units (along with WR).
Scar should really be a coach that is known for winning 6 SB's. Whenever BB the GM let a star vet OL walk for money, the next guy would just step in and be amazing. Just consider Center since 2000 - Woody - Koppen - Connolly - Wendell - Stork - Andrews
After Woody, none of those guys were supposed to be anything special, but they all went to SB's (Wendell as RG)

OL draftees 2017-22 - Garcia, McDermott, Wynn, Cajuste, Froholdt, Onwenu, Herron, Woodard, Sherman, Strange, Hines, Steuber
2 out of 12 - that was a bad 6 year stretch.
No wonder we're struggling, and relying on 35 yr. old vets.

I'm not going to bad mouth Scar, but technically he only won 5 Super Bowls. Dave DeGugliemo was the OL coach in 2014.

 

[50-yard-line]

I don't think it is a diss to comment that Sow did not play T in college much at all (frosh season I believe), and also played in a mid level league against mid level competition. asking him to now play T in the nfl in his rookie season, is not ideal. regardless how big, strong or fast he is, if he is not ready yet, but eventually might be, is not a shot at Sow.

Agreed that it's not a shot.

everyone wants him to play very well at one of the teams position of greatest needs.
if there is any negativity, it should be directed at why Reiff and Anderson? knowing Wynn was gone, the perpetual uncertainty of Brown, why is plan A a 35 year old injury prone T, a Jets PS player and a Bronco's back up? now the team has to hope Sow can be ready.
I hope he can be.

Given the above, BB stop-gapped the development ANY rookie lineman would need and got a seasoned, great-attitude vet, Reiff (wonder if he can extend his career at Guard, as some CBs do with Safety), another vet in Anderson, who started 7 games last year and did well, and McDermott, who is a capable backup at RT.

I admit, I was hoping for Orlando Brown - good and dependable - but nope. Even though they're thick in IOL, still wouldn't mind Risner...can't figure out what's up with him and why he hasn't been signed for a pretty large contract.

If Mafi becomes a good quality NFL guard and Sow becomes a solid RT - and I think both are possible, given the size, athleticism, and the early reports on them - then BOOM! What a freaking draft.

Not sure about Andrews - clearly needs a lot of work. But he's got a great teacher in, well, Andrews!

I'm actually starting to like Russey a bit more. Haven't really noticed Hines or Steuber.

Also, I'll flip it back on those saying the line will get the Pats' QBs killed - I think the Pats QBs and slow-developing plays (and last year, with WRs not even close to looking back for the damned ball) are part of what's getting the OL killed (in the media).

 

[rkarp1]

Agreed that it's not a shot.

Given the above, BB stop-gapped the development ANY rookie lineman would need and got a seasoned, great-attitude vet, Reiff (wonder if he can extend his career at Guard, as some CBs do with Safety), another vet in Anderson, who started 7 games last year and did well, and McDermott, who is a capable backup at RT.

I admit, I was hoping for Orlando Brown - good and dependable - but nope. Even though they're thick in IOL, still wouldn't mind Risner...can't figure out what's up with him and why he hasn't been signed for a pretty large contract.

If Mafi becomes a good quality NFL guard and Sow becomes a solid RT - and I think both are possible, given the size, athleticism, and the early reports on them - then BOOM! What a freaking draft.

Not sure about Andrews - clearly needs a lot of work. But he's got a great teacher in, well, Andrews!

I'm actually starting to like Russey a bit more. Haven't really noticed Hines or Steuber.

Also, I'll flip it back on those saying the line will get the Pats' QBs killed - I think the Pats QBs and slow-developing plays (and last year, with WRs not even close to looking back for the damned ball) are part of what's getting the OL killed (in the media).

all things being equal, I like Brown/Strange/Andrews/Sow/Onwenu as the starting 5, with Maffi/Russey/McDermott the next 3 up.
I think Reiff has lost a step on the outside, and will not get it back.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I don't think it is a diss to comment that Sow did not play T in college much at all (frosh season I believe), and also played in a mid level league against mid level competition. asking him to now play T in the nfl in his rookie season, is not ideal. regardless how big, strong or fast he is, if he is not ready yet, but eventually might be, is not a shot at Sow.
everyone wants him to play very well at one of the teams position of greatest needs.
if there is any negativity, it should be directed at why Reiff and Anderson? knowing Wynn was gone, the perpetual uncertainty of Brown, why is plan A a 35 year old injury prone T, a Jets PS player and a Bronco's back up? now the team has to hope Sow can be ready.
I hope he can be.

This is a reasonable take and may be valid criticism. I think we tend to fall into more dogmatic camps on the issue because of over the top name-calling and hand-wringing, which polarizes the discussion. Ah well. It's part of the fun of being fans.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

I come back to the take that Sow only started taking reps at RT with the 3rd line a few weeks ago, and since then he has apparently jumped over some established tackles to become the de facto starting RT. Maybe that changes if and when Anderson comes off the NFI list. And it could be that they know what they have with the others and simply want to see what they now have with Sow - but I think in that case he'd be splitting first team reps with someone.

And with just one weak link BOB can work around things - have the TE chip etc. if necessary.

Trent Brown Working 'Extra' With This Important Patriots Rookie

New England Patriots left tackle Trent Brown is helping tutor a rookie offensive lineman who could play a key role this season.

nesn.com

 

[Wozzy]

I don't think it is a diss to comment that Sow did not play T in college much at all (frosh season I believe), and also played in a mid level league against mid level competition. asking him to now play T in the nfl in his rookie season, is not ideal. regardless how big, strong or fast he is, if he is not ready yet, but eventually might be, is not a shot at Sow.
everyone wants him to play very well at one of the teams position of greatest needs.
if there is any negativity, it should be directed at why Reiff and Anderson? knowing Wynn was gone, the perpetual uncertainty of Brown, why is plan A a 35 year old injury prone T, a Jets PS player and a Bronco's back up? now the team has to hope Sow can be ready.
I hope he can be.

Sow played OT in college, he also played guard.

You said a month ago Sow wouldn’t be ready to play week one, you said the week before last he was destined for the practice squad. I said it was too early for such proclamations both times.

Now here’s Sow playing RT with the ones. Assuming he doesn’t regress or get injured he’ll be out there in week one…. in which case you were wrong.

It’s okay to be wrong, as long as you admit it and learn from it. Definitive statements based on a bias can get you in trouble. Young players can improve, especially when the talent is there.

 

[50-yard-line]

OL draftees 2017-22 - Garcia, McDermott, Wynn, Cajuste, Froholdt, Onwenu, Herron, Woodard, Sherman, Strange, Hines, Steuber
2 out of 12 - that was a bad 6 year stretch.
No wonder we're struggling, and relying on 35 yr. old vets.

Let's get some perspective here. Garcia was the 2nd of FOUR, count 'em 4!, picks in 2017, drafted in the third at 85 (and they took Rivers at 83) Between "deflategate" and winning the SB, that draft was doomed before it began. Garcia might have been good - he kept getting shots after leaving New England - but those blood clots doomed him to, now, the XFL or USFL or something something.
McDermott was taken at 211 in the 6th - a tackle taken that late is STILL in the league. Not bad.


2018 has Brown-Thuney-Andrews-Mason-Cannon - pretty good line, SB victory. Wynn tore his Achilles before he could get going. Sh!t happens in the NFL. There was no "health risk" on Wynn coming out of Georgia. Fluke...shrug. Of course, afterwards things went downhill attitude wise - really not sure what happened, but I don't think Matty P did him any favors in swapping him to RT in his contract year. Watching him start and be great for Miami - the talent is there, particularly at Guard.


2019 had a pretty good line, too, with Karras filling in for Andrews. The draft brought in a couple of development guys in Cajuste (was injured, and so dropped in the draft, iirc) and the one who got away in Froholdt. Huge mistake by the Pats trying to slip that raw viking onto the PS. He's having a pretty good career and is only going to get better. Pure mauler, and now at Center. Look out. Cajuste, of course, has just never stayed healthy.
In the rebuild, they've been taking lots of shots.


2020 rebuild, they didn't do much - nothing until the 6th. And look, Onwenu, who everyone here would like extended. Herron played well for a bit, too. The team had too many other issues, and their line had Mason, Andrews, Wynn, and Thuney - not exactly weak.


2021 is when they still had a lot of picks, but they really should have started looking for OL talent in the 3rd (I say in hindsight). Perkins had some potential, may still work out (doubt it), but surely there were more promising OL around.

The 2022 class brings in Cole Strange in the 1st, then nothing until the sixth, pick 210. Predictably, the two guys in the back end of that draft aren't turning heads.

The 2023 class looks really promising to me. We'll see.

I only do this recap as a reminder that you don't get many picks, typically, and if you're the Patriots, you've had 2, just 2, in the top 20 in more than a decade. Teams that pick in the top 5-10 every year get their QB and shutdown Corner and LT there...picking late doesn't give you that option.

Also, because of flash and salaries, there really aren't a lot of great OL units around the league. The Pats have a middling OL - not nearly as bad comparatively as posters here make it out to be. If Mafi and Sow hit at all, the Pats are in very good shape there.

 

[50-yard-line]

all things being equal, I like Brown/Strange/Andrews/Sow/Onwenu as the starting 5, with Maffi/Russey/McDermott the next 3 up.
I think Reiff has lost a step on the outside, and will not get it back.

I'd love for Anderson to handle RT for a bit, then hand it over to Sow.

Brown-Strange-Andrews-Onwenu-Sow would be great if Sow can hold up, with Reiff as a vet back-up for both right-side slots and Mafi waiting in the wings. Really hope Andrews develops fast or Russey gets healthy and comes along, because David Andrews' health is scary sometimes.

 

[p8ryts]

I'd love for Anderson to handle RT for a bit, then hand it over to Sow.

Brown-Strange-Andrews-Onwenu-Sow would be great if Sow can hold up, with Reiff as a vet back-up for both right-side slots and Mafi waiting in the wings. Really hope Andrews develops fast or Russey gets healthy and comes along, because David Andrews' health is scary sometimes.

Unless Sow is terrible and regresses, I think they will leave him there to improve. I have no idea what Anderson will do and have discounted him. I'm still in on McDermott at RT is Sow doesn't work out.

 

[Scotty]

I just noticed that TBrown has been working extra with Sow , that's great news and bound to help Sow.

 

[rkarp1]

I come back to the take that Sow only started taking reps at RT with the 3rd line a few weeks ago, and since then he has apparently jumped over some established tackles to become the de facto starting RT. Maybe that changes if and when Anderson comes off the NFI list. And it could be that they know what they have with the others and simply want to see what they now have with Sow - but I think in that case he'd be splitting first team reps with someone.

And with just one weak link BOB can work around things - have the TE chip etc. if necessary.

Trent Brown Working 'Extra' With This Important Patriots Rookie

New England Patriots left tackle Trent Brown is helping tutor a rookie offensive lineman who could play a key role this season.

nesn.com

did Sow jump over or did Reiff and McDermott fall out? from the reports we read, Reiff has not looked good all summer, at 3 different spots. McDermott struggled in pass pro last season, and apparently still is...
that leaves Sow, or perhaps Onwenu if and when

 

[Kasmir]

I just noticed that TBrown has been working extra with Sow , that's great news and bound to help Sow.

That also suggests that Brown, at least, think Sow can play tackle.

 

[1960Pats]

You reap what you sow.

Boy what a great name that kid has. @Thelonious is right.

Last year is ancient history, time to move on.

Last year isn't long ago and it went by mighty fast.

I still remember the Captain’s quote about him on day 3 in 2020.

“Where is this fecking fat feck going to play?”

Ooops.

Everyone makes mistakes in the draft. It's a crap shoot.

I don't normally go to threads like this because I don't follow college ball and I know that we need to cool our jets on every player. But I came out of this one feeling more confident about Sidy Sow, and not just because of his great name.

 

[rkarp1]

Sow played OT in college, he also played guard.

You said a month ago Sow wouldn’t be ready to play week one, you said the week before last he was destined for the practice squad. I said it was too early for such proclamations both times.

Now here’s Sow playing RT with the ones. Assuming he doesn’t regress or get injured he’ll be out there on week one…. in which case you were wrong.

It’s okay to be wrong, as long as you admit it and learn from it. Definitive statements based on a bias can get you in trouble. Young players can improve, especially when the talent is there.

I never saw Sow in college, but it seems he played LT his redshirt frosh season. his soph season he played LG and stayed at G throughout the rest of his college career.
I stand by my comments, he is not yet ready game 1. but he might be the best option regardless, which it appears is the case.
I fully expect Sow to improve. even though he is 25 years old, he still has upside. but in my opinion, the jump from eastern Mich LG to NFL RT is difficult, and Sow's technique needs work.
we saw Wynn struggle moving from LT to RT with his footwork.
from what has been reported, Sow has similar issues with his initial step

 

[upstater1]

BB has certainly put the OL in dangerous shape with his GM moves over the last few years. It used to be the foregone conclusion that OL was the most consistent and solid unit. The last few years they have been one of the most unknown/unreliable units (along with WR).
Scar should really be a coach that is known for winning 6 SB's. Whenever BB the GM let a star vet OL walk for money, the next guy would just step in and be amazing. Just consider Center since 2000 - Woody - Koppen - Connolly - Wendell - Stork - Andrews
After Woody, none of those guys were supposed to be anything special, but they all went to SB's (Wendell as RG)

OL draftees 2017-22 - Garcia, McDermott, Wynn, Cajuste, Froholdt, Onwenu, Herron, Woodard, Sherman, Strange, Hines, Steuber
2 out of 12 - that was a bad 6 year stretch.
No wonder we're struggling, and relying on 35 yr. old vets.

Wynn and maybe Garcia were prime picks. I'm not going to complain about 7th rounders not panning out. You have to have at least some sense of the value of the resources you expend. And 2017 is an interesting year because we brought in Andrews, Thuney and Shaq Mason the year prior.

Froholdt by the way is a very good starting NFL guard. This really only looks bad because of Wynn. Otherwise, pffffft.

 

[rkarp1]

Wynn and maybe Garcia were prime picks. I'm not going to complain about 7th rounders not panning out. You have to have at least some sense of the value of the resources you expend. And 2017 is an interesting year because we brought in Andrews, Thuney and Shaq Mason the year prior.

Froholdt by the way is a very good starting NFL guard. This really only looks bad because of Wynn. Otherwise, pffffft.

I thought I saw that Froholdt is now playing C for the Cards?

 

[40yrpatsfan]

This is the way it appears to me at OT:
- they think Sow has better upside at RT than anyone else we have out there right now, and he's improving daily, so I think he stays there for now. Big mobile dude 6'5 325

- McDermott is a proven RT, he was decent last year and is our floor for that position. That's really his only position.

- Reiff is swing depth at LT, RT, and G. Almost have to keep him given how much we're paying him, unless Anderson returns and there's a trade

- Anderson is swing depth at LT and RT, but will he get healthy enough to contribute this year? He's the wild card because if he's healthy he may be the best RT we have, and our first replacement at LT if Brown goes down.

- Steuber is back to practice squad, but look for him next year.

at OG:
- Strange's absence is starting to become concerning. If he's out for another month or more, then I think Mafi will start the year at LG. he should be ok in there between Brown and Andrews.

- If Onwenu's also still out, then I guess Reiff at RG? This would be a problem.

But assuming Onwenu is back and Strange is not, then our OL in wk 1 is Brown (360), Mafi (335), Andrews (300), Onwenu (360), and Sow (325). Which would be 2 rookies.

 

[mgteich]

Brown-Strange-Andrews-Onwenu-Sow would be great if Sow can hold up, with Reiff as a vet back-up for both right-side slots and Mafi waiting in the wings. Really hope Andrews develops fast or Russey gets healthy and comes along, because David Andrews' health is scary sometimes.

5 starters
1st of the bench Reiff and Mafi
backup center: Probably Russey for a day or two, and then Ferentz
developmental and always inactive: Andrews
10th OL (and 4th OT) if there is one: McDermott
wild card: Anderson

 

[upstater1]

I thought I saw that Froholdt is now playing C for the Cards?

He played guard last year. I guess they moved him over

 

[rkarp1]

honestly, while the OL has been taking shots all summer, there have been bits and pieces of something positive here or there for those that have participated, other than Reiff. the local guys have not been optimistic on him at all. I doubt they have an axe to grind with him. by all accounts he is the type of player we all love playing here. perhaps he is really finished?