Rumor: Some Patriots Players Have Doubts About Cam Newton

[amfootball]

Patience my boy....Patience.

Not really. Allen and AR, ok, sure. Roeth or Brees are not elite anymore. Jackson is not an elite passer. Neither is Mayfield.

...and Ryan Tannehill elite? You have got to be kidding me.

You wanted to pay $10m for Mariota when they didn't have $10m to spend?

I'm not acting....I just explained it. You don't follow or don't agree, that's fine.

Patience? LOL. You asked about this season. Do you believe we are a 10+ win team with Cam? I don't. Not in the least. I don't care who we picked up in FA. He flat out can't play the position anymore.

I should not have said elite, I should have said above average. We don't have anything close to that in Cam.

I never mentioned Mariota.

 

[50-yard-line]

That's funny. You think the rebuild was one year and spending money like the Jetes and Bengals do in FA will fix everything. Lol

They didn't.

They got Judon, Bourne, Anderson, Smith, Van Noy, and Henry (and Adams) at fair value. They got Brown well below market in that trade.

Agholor and Godchaux might be overpays, but if so, only slightly over based on past performance.

That is decidedly NOT how the Jetes and Bengals have fumbled their roster for years and years. Grossly overpaying Revis and Le'Veon Bell, for example.

Newsflash - the Pats are not contending for SBs for a long time. We could have kept contending with the Goat while he groomed our successor like he is doing with Trask down in Tampa. Instead we have broken Cam for a second straight year. Yeah, I would definitely call that a disaster.

Newsflash: you cannot begin to say that - teams rebuild. Good coaches come back. Did anyone think the Bills and Cleveland would climb into contention? They have.

The second part seems very off to me. The Pats were in no way in contention with that team last year. No way. And without the many adds this year, they would in no way be in contention this year, Brady or not.

What's funny or should I say tragic is Bill is the one that is always supposed to be a step ahead. Chess/checkers, right? Yet when Brady would not accept his crap offer again to play for peanuts after delivering the 6th ring, Bills answer was to scrape broken Cam off the scrap heap not once but twice!

Brady had a fit when Jimmy G was brought in.

Every other org going back to the 90s that had a HoF, first ballot Qb had the next guy ready - the Niners had Young, Colts had Luck and the Packers had Rodgers. Bill has the unique distinction of moving off the greatest Qb in the history of the NFL to go with .... Broken Cam Newton.

Yes that's the very definition of a disaster and what clown GMs do.

The Colts didn't "have Luck" when Manning left. They tanked and drafted him.

Who was waiting in the wings when Elway left?

 

[Ring 6]

They still have Cam as their starter. Until that changes or we see Jones is a legit starter, then no, they are a below .500/middler team. Double digit wins in today's league are predicated on having a legit starting QB. Every single team last year that had 11+ wins had an elite or HoF QB.

I am not sure why you acting like Bill could not draft a QB and contend with Brady. We are talking THREE years where he did nothing at the QB spot and Brady was ages, 40,41,42. Bill is not paid to care what the fans think. He is paid to ensure the most important position on the team is secured when his starter is 40+. It was gross negligence and we are paying for it now.

Because he used the draft to build the team around Brady to make the final run. It won a SB in 2018 ( the 4th one they were in in 5 years, yeah crappy plan). If not for gronk retiring, AB getting himself cut, Gordon going awol, and the first round picked WR they used to give Brady weapons didn’t go on IR they may have had one last hurrah in 2019.
But those things did happen and the balloon has burst.

If I told you that you can go to 4 SBs in 5 years, win 3 of them, then go 12-4 with a one and done, start a rebuild with a 7-9 season then upgrade half your roster to rebuild are you really telling me that’s not good?

 

[Ring 6]

Patience? LOL. You asked about this season. Do you believe we are a 10+ win team with Cam? I don't. Not in the least. I don't care who we picked up in FA. He flat out can't play the position anymore.

I should not have said elite, I should have said above average. We don't have anything close to that in Cam.

I never mentioned Mariota.

So Jones is the QB then.

 

[amfootball]

Because he used the draft to build the team around Brady to make the final run. It won a SB in 2018 ( the 4th one they were in in 5 years, yeah crappy plan). If not for gronk retiring, AB getting himself cut, Gordon going awol, and the first round picked WR they used to give Brady weapons didn’t go on IR they may have had one last hurrah in 2019.
But those things did happen and the balloon has burst.

If I told you that you can go to 4 SBs in 5 years, win 3 of them, then go 12-4 with a one and done, start a rebuild with a 7-9 season then upgrade half your roster to rebuild are you really telling me that’s not good?

He did? Our drafts have sucked going all the way back to 2015. You stated it yourself actually, Harry was a bust, Sony too. They signed AB and Gordon because Bill repeatedly failed at drafting WRs. I think we have been over this.

And remind me again, why did Gronk retire? Ah yes, he didn't want to play for Bill.

In terms of your last sentence, neither is mutually exclusive. You could have contended those years AND drafted a young QB prospect. You said it yourself - they drafted Jimmy and won the freaking SB the same year. It can be done AND should have been done after we traded Jimmy.

 

[amfootball]

Brady had a fit when Jimmy G was brought in.

So much of a fit that he won the SB the same year. Who woulda thunk it?

 

[Ring 6]

Lmfao...dude...just walk away. You just lied and everyone saw it.

BS. You had to go back 3 years to find a post that doesn’t even say what you were arguing.
YOU did not understand the game plan, so you thought that players were playing positions that they were not and magically were in Butler job. I cannot help your lack of knowledge and clearly I cannot help your lack of reading comprehension (or lying to make it seem that way).
It’s obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about so you decide to make up something that you think is a bad idea, attribute it to me, when I never said it and end up with me explaining the game plan to you and telling you in that game it was Rowe and only Rowe in Butlers place into “butter was benched because of game plan”.
It’s beyond funny and to top it off you choose a post where I said the game plan was bad.

It comical how your simple mind works.

1) Ring 6 owns space in my head
2) Ring 6 made a post
3) I am going to act like a dlck
4) let’s see, he didn’t lose his mind over butler being benched so let’s change the subject and say he agreed with it
5) search for ring6 and butler in a post, quote it and lie about what it says
6) when called out, act like a dlck again and ignore the truth.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

BS. You had to go back 3 years to find a post that doesn’t even say what you were arguing.
YOU did not understand the game plan, so you thought that players were playing positions that they were not and magically were in Butler job. I cannot help your lack of knowledge and clearly I cannot help your lack of reading comprehension (or lying to make it seem that way).
It’s obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about so you decide to make up something that you think is a bad idea, attribute it to me, when I never said it and end up with me explaining the game plan to you and telling you in that game it was Rowe and only Rowe in Butlers place into “butter was benched because of game plan”.
It’s beyond funny and to top it off you choose a post where I said the game plan was bad.

It comical how your simple mind works.

1) Ring 6 owns space in my head
2) Ring 6 made a post
3) I am going to act like a dlck
4) let’s see, he didn’t lose his mind over butler being benched so let’s change the subject and say he agreed with it
5) search for ring6 and butler in a post, quote it and lie about what it says
6) when called out, act like a dlck again and ignore the truth.

 

[Ring 6]

He did? Our drafts have sucked going all the way back to 2015. You stated it yourself actually, Harry was a bust, Sony too. They signed AB and Gordon because Bill repeatedly failed at drafting WRs. I think we have been over this.

And remind me again, why did Gronk retire? Ah yes, he didn't want to play for Bill.

In terms of your last sentence, neither is mutually exclusive. You could have contended those years AND drafted a young QB prospect. You said it yourself - they drafted Jimmy and won the freaking SB the same year. It can be done AND should have been done after we traded Jimmy.

Yes he did. We went to 4 SBs in 5 years and won 3 of them.
Harry is still a 3rd year player, but the fact remains he drafted a WR to help Brady win rather than a QB to replace him.
We won a SB because in large part of Sony.

It is not mutually exclusive but you stand a better chance to win now if you use your resources on players that can help you win now than players who will replace others in the future.

The results are there to judge.

But it just appears now you want to trash belichick rather than discuss the topic. Meeting they used draft picks on X with “ but he sucked” is no longer discussing the strategy.

I will ask again, the end result of all of the decisions made was 4 SBS in 5 years with 3 wins followed by 12-4 and a playoff loss, 7-9 and a massive rebuild.
Do you honestly call that bad and unacceptable?

 

[Ring 6]

The response of someone who knows they are wrong.

 

[IllegalContact]

The response of someone who knows they are wrong.

 

[amfootball]

Yes he did. We went to 4 SBs in 5 years and won 3 of them.
Harry is still a 3rd year player, but the fact remains he drafted a WR to help Brady win rather than a QB to replace him.
We won a SB because in large part of Sony.

It is not mutually exclusive but you stand a better chance to win now if you use your resources on players that can help you win now than players who will replace others in the future.

The results are there to judge.

But it just appears now you want to trash belichick rather than discuss the topic. Meeting they used draft picks on X with “ but he sucked” is no longer discussing the strategy.

I will ask again, the end result of all of the decisions made was 4 SBS in 5 years with 3 wins followed by 12-4 and a playoff loss, 7-9 and a massive rebuild.
Do you honestly call that bad and unacceptable?

I think we are actually on the same page. I do think both can be done. Most smart GMs ensure they have the QB of the future. It is not easy to find and I know Bill tried with Jimmy and Brady outlasted him. What is irksome to me and others is Bill had no plan at all. It would have seemed that Stidham might have been it but somewhere between Brady leaving and us signing Cam on June 28, Bill lost faith. Like I said, he is paid to make sure the most important position is secured and he did nothing at the position and did not extend Brady. In most people's minds he needed to do one or the other. I believe he really thought Brady was going to come back because of his close relationship with Kraft. There were reports that Bill was surprised when Brady told him and Kraft he was leaving for Tampa. But that is still on Bill for not making Brady a better offer to stay.

What is unacceptable is not our records or wins but how it all ended which has left us in a massive rebuild while Brady proved he can still win chips with a decent roster in year one literally.

 

[50-yard-line]

He did? Our drafts have sucked going all the way back to 2015. You stated it yourself actually, Harry was a bust, Sony too. They signed AB and Gordon because Bill repeatedly failed at drafting WRs. I think we have been over this.

And remind me again, why did Gronk retire? Ah yes, he didn't want to play for Bill.

In terms of your last sentence, neither is mutually exclusive. You could have contended those years AND drafted a young QB prospect. You said it yourself - they drafted Jimmy and won the freaking SB the same year. It can be done AND should have been done after we traded Jimmy.

Where would you have gotten the money for Gronk, exactly, even if he would have played for BB? Besides Brady's $25 million, I mean?

Also, he wasn't asked to do much in Tampa for most of the season, as they had Howrd (who got hurt) and Brate, and a couple of all-pro WRs. In New England, would you have had that luxury with him?

The Pats would have had to push a ton of money out in 2021 and 2022. And Michel wasn't, and isn't a "bust." Certainly wasn't in the SB run.

And don't play coy - there were plenty of articles out there like this one:



Heck, brady threw shade at Jimmy a month ago. The bad blood was pretty obvious.

 

[amfootball]

Where would you have gotten the money for Gronk, exactly, even if he would have played for BB? Besides Brady's $25 million, I mean?

Also, he wasn't asked to do much in Tampa for most of the season, as they had Howrd (who got hurt) and Brate, and a couple of all-pro WRs. In New England, would you have had that luxury with him?

The Pats would have had to push a ton of money out in 2021 and 2022. And Michel wasn't, and isn't a "bust." Certainly wasn't in the SB run.

And don't play coy - there were plenty of articles out there like this one:



Heck, brady threw shade at Jimmy a month ago. The bad blood was pretty obvious.

Gronk was under contract through 2020.

He wan't asked to do much? Are you serious? He threw for 50 total Tds. Led the playoffs with 10 TDs and won SB MVP. He was the de facto leader of that team and helped transform them into champs after they were 7-9 and hadn't made the playoffs since 2007.

So what if they pushed money? They have done that plenty of times. McCourty was resigned. They franchised Thuney. They had money. They just chose not to spend it on the GOAT.

Who cares if he threw shade? My goodness. They were competitors. All that matters is the end result and one could make the argument that 2014-2018 were Brady's best years of his career.

 

[IllegalContact]

I think we are actually on the same page. I do think both can be done. Most smart GMs ensure they have the QB of the future. It is not easy to find and I know Bill tried with Jimmy and Brady outlasted him. What is irksome to me and others is Bill had no plan at all. It would have seemed that Stidham might have been it but somewhere between Brady leaving and us signing Cam on June 28, Bill lost faith. Like I said, he is paid to make sure the most important position is secured and he did nothing at the position and did not extend Brady. In most people's minds he needed to do one or the other. I believe he really thought Brady was going to come back because of his close relationship with Kraft. There were reports that Bill was surprised when Brady told him and Kraft he was leaving for Tampa. But that is still on Bill for not making Brady a better offer to stay.

What is unacceptable is not our records or wins but how it all ended which has left us in a massive rebuild while Brady proved he can still win chips with a decent roster in year one literally.

once you wrap your head around the fact that the pats weren't winning with brady in 2020, the outcome is easy to accept as a very reasonable one. I think the coaches mindset at that moment was 'what's the point'.

I find it hard to believe BB was surprised since he was the one that was driving that departure.

Things worked out in Tampa Bay.........that has nothing to do with what BB was doing.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

Also, he wasn't asked to do much in Tampa for most of the season, as they had Howrd (who got hurt) and Brate, and a couple of all-pro WRs. In New England, would you have had that luxury?

Just to be clear, his "not doing much" was throwing 40 touchdowns on a new team. Howard was injured week 4 and stashed on IR, Brate is a decent TE/not great, AB played what, 4 games and a SB, and Evans/Godwin had nagging injuries all season long (missed some playing time).

I'm not interested in the Brady V Bill debate but I think the "let's downplay Bradys season" crew is pulling out old colt and jet fans tactics that we Patriot fans abhore.

 

[50-yard-line]

Gronk was under contract through 2020.

He wan't asked to do much? Are you serious? He threw for 50 total Tds. Led the playoffs with 10 TDs and won SB MVP. He was the de facto leader of that team and helped transform them into champs after they were 7-9 and hadn't made the playoffs since 2007.

So what if they pushed money? They have done that plenty of times. McCourty was resigned. They franchised Thuney. They had money. They just chose not to spend it on the GOAT.

Who cares if he threw shade? My goodness. They were competitors. All that matters is the end result and one could make the argument that 2014-2018 were Brady's best years of his career.

Gronk wasn't asked to do much for most of the season, not Brady. The big guy was allowed to pace himself back up to speed and keep hiimself healthy for a change.

 

[50-yard-line]

Just to be clear, his "not doing much" was throwing 40 touchdowns on a new team. Howard was injured week 4 and stashed on IR, Brate is a decent TE/not great, AB played what, 4 games and a SB, and Evans/Godwin had nagging injuries all season long (missed some playing time).

I'm not interested in the Brady V Bill debate but I think the "let's downplay Bradys season" crew is pulling out old colt and jet fans tactics that we Patriot fans abhore.

I wasn't downplaying Brady at all - the response was about Gronk, not Brady. Brady should have won league MVP - again - last year.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

I wasn't downplaying Brady at all - the response was about Gronk, not Brady. Brady should have won league MVP - again - last year.

Roger, I would agree with that assessment. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[50-yard-line]

Roger, I would agree with that assessment. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

No worries. Brady went to a supremely talented team and taught them how to win. That's not nothing - that's MVP leadership (and pretty great QB play, too, even in knowing how to set things pre-snap, with which he has no peer).

That's very different than taking a terrible team on your shoulders and carrying them to victory, which I really don't think Brady could have done with the Pats in 2020 - at all. Add to that, he was simply pissed off in 2019, and I can't say I disagreed with him leaving. I've made it clear, though, my preference would have been signing him in 2018 for as long as he wanted to play, even if that meant, as I'm pretty sure it would have meant, a crappy 2019, 20, 21 season with him, and at least one crappy season after he left.