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Rumor or Speculation (IDK): Patriots shopping Amendola

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Apologies, as I had been in the middle of my post when you were posting yours.

Didn't mean to state the same thing.

Glad you did, and you said it more eloquently, if less succinctly...
 
In the interest of fairness (coming out of my corner here), I have to say that it would make sense for the Pats to be inquiring about Amendola in trades. Were I BB, I probably would, too, just to see what the market would be.

The Pats are facing a tough decision here with JE - it seems obvious that Brady would love to have JE back and he's been a fan favorite forever. But there's a lot of overlap between him and Amendola, and that would probably be too much money for the team to invest in somewhat redundant players. For the record, the way the WR FA looks right now, if they can't sign JE, the only other guy out there I want is Sanders, and I'm not that high on him, either!

The Pats probably already know exactly what it will cost to keep JE here.

They save a couple million moving DA, as has been explained 50,000 times on 3,568 threads. If they can get trade value that brings the number closer to even money on DA's dead money, they can sign JE.

So sure, it makes sense, IF they got value. The idea that Amendola is trash and worth nothing is absurd. If you look at the list of FA free agents and insert Amendola into that list, he's near the top, not the bottom. In fact, were Amendola on that list from another team and we were in danger of losing JE, he'd probably have more people here saying "sign him" than anyone else on the list. Grass is greener, I guess.

The Pats have the luxury of having the other good slot guy in this year's class (assuming Boldin stays in SF) wanting to stay with them. I don't think Edelman would go anywhere if the Pats made him a good offer.

So if they could deal Amendola from a position of power, why the hell not? Maybe package him as part of a deal that fills a need with a promising safety on his rookie contract, or as a bigger deal that moves other pieces and draft choices around. Hell, for all we know, there really is talk about a guy like Revis, and this would be one piece of it.

Speculation is fun - it's the ragging on players that sucks big time. If I were building a team and I could put Amendola on it, I would. He's put up 600-700 yards three times in his short career, including two seasons where he played only 11 and 12 games. That's not as common as many people here seem to think. he's also not one of those guys who sits when he's hurt. Twice now in his career, he's played when he probably shouldn't have, and obviously in pain. He's tough as nails and loves the game - Edelman is the same way.

I thought teams were nuts last year when they didn't bring JE on board cheap, and his injury history had been worse than DA's up to that point.

If DA goes to the right team, though, running a system that plays to his strengths, like ours does, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised to see him put up 1,000 yards. Nor would I be surprised to see JE get hurt and miss most of the year next year. They really are mirror images of each other.
 
Speculation is fun - it's the ragging on players that sucks big time. If I were building a team and I could put Amendola on it, I would. He's put up 600-700 yards three times in his short career, including two seasons where he played only 11 and 12 games. That's not as common as many people here seem to think. he's also not one of those guys who sits when he's hurt. Twice now in his career, he's played when he probably shouldn't have, and obviously in pain. He's tough as nails and loves the game - Edelman is the same way.

I thought teams were nuts last year when they didn't bring JE on board cheap, and his injury history had been worse than DA's up to that point.

If DA goes to the right team, though, running a system that plays to his strengths, like ours does, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised to see him put up 1,000 yards. Nor would I be surprised to see JE get hurt and miss most of the year next year. They really are mirror images of each other.

Yes. Well said. I also agree that it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see them testing the waters for many players, Amendola certainly included. I'm just not 100% certain that this report is true quite yet, due to all of the speculation coming from the same source.
 
True, but why the rush? Your assumption seems to be that this year will be true every year and that whatever the Pats saw as talent will never consistently show on the field. That is the only way you can argue a cost savings. If he produces next year on another team, then the Pats just throw the money away and look like fools. If he is injured all of next season, then it really isn't any less cost effective to release him then and the team gave it the old college try. Saving $1 million or so is not major in the grand scheme of salary cap management.

I guess we do not even know if the Patriots still see what they saw in Amendola when they signed him. I think we have seen plenty of players come in that the Patriots saw something in when they signed and a year later, they see things differently. Lloyd, Johnson, Dowling, Price, Tate, Fells, Ballard, and others were all acquired and invested in based on something the Patriots saw, flash forward 12-24 months, and that is no longer the case.

I think it was clear that confidence in Amendola was not high at the conclusion of the 2013-14 season. He was the lead dog coming into the season, throughout training camp and preseason, he was injured in week one but upon his return he was worked into the lineup ahead of Edelman for the games leading up to the Broncos game and in the first half of the Broncos game. I firmly believe the turning point was at halftime of the Broncos game, the team moved away from Amendola and Dobson (due to the foot injury). They made Edelman the #1 slot receiver and that sparked the offense along with Thompkins at the X. As the weeks, progressed Edelman continued to impress and expended his lead over Amendola in the eyes of the coaches.

The groin injury would have improved as the season progressed but in the games Amendola played in his role in the offense decreased as the weeks went on, even with the absence of Gronkowski, Dobson, and Thompkins the team initially turned to Josh Boyce over Amendola. In the final four games he played, he was targeted 12 times for 6 receptions, that is a drastic change from the player that was targeted 14 times in week one of the season. I know you can point to the injury as cause but Amendola showed the ability to be productive in games with that injury so I cannot attribute it to the injury. I attribute it to Amendola being the type of player who can exploit certain matchup opportunities as good as any receiver in the NFL but those are only occurs a handful of times per season and in the other weeks he is not a factor.

The reason not to wait is simple, do you continue to invest into something that you do not have confidence in with the hope it gets better, or do you cut your losses and move on. My question is why spend more money on Amendola, especially if that limits your ability to retain Edelman. When I say limits your ability to retain Edelman I do not mean just in terms of salary cap space, I mean Edelman is going to be looking to sign a contract to be a starter, is he going to sign here to compete with Amendola for that position? If we assure Edelman the starting job to get him to sign, is Amendola going to be happy as a reserve? I am sure we made some type of commitment to him last offseason in his negotiations that he would have a starting job and be a key part of this offense.

On top of that let’s pretend you can make Amendola happy as a is a third or fourth receiver on this team, do you think there would be an impact in the locker room when players like Dobson, Boyce or others are playing more prominent roles but making 1/6 the salary of Amendola? These players are only human.

The 2009 season was a year I remember well, the team was the worst “team” in terms of locker room etc. in the Belichick era in my opinion. I even remember in “A Football Life” Belichick saying he could not get that team to play how he wanted it too. That team was filled with players being overpaid compared to their roles on this team, Belichick cleaned house and since then he has done everything to have younger less expensive talent in his locker room. I do not know if that would be affect by Amendola but it certainly crosses my mind. If we can all see that a player that made $765K last season after he got a check for $8M in the same calendar year outperformed Amendola then I am certain that the players also see that, and everyone wants to be paid fairly in life, no matter the profession.

And you stated in your prior post that people view the Brandon Lloyd release as cost savings. Everything I have heard and read indicates a general understanding of a bad locker room presence that was worth the dead money to lose. It had nothing to do with money. Who is saying that release had anything to do with saving money? I hadn't heard that story, so I'd love to hear who is making that claim.

Several posters have stated we had cap savings because of the release of Lloyd.
 
Speculation is fun - it's the ragging on players that sucks big time. If I were building a team and I could put Amendola on it, I would. He's put up 600-700 yards three times in his short career, including two seasons where he played only 11 and 12 games. That's not as common as many people here seem to think. he's also not one of those guys who sits when he's hurt. Twice now in his career, he's played when he probably shouldn't have, and obviously in pain. He's tough as nails and loves the game - Edelman is the same way.

I thought teams were nuts last year when they didn't bring JE on board cheap, and his injury history had been worse than DA's up to that point.

If DA goes to the right team, though, running a system that plays to his strengths, like ours does, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised to see him put up 1,000 yards. Nor would I be surprised to see JE get hurt and miss most of the year next year. They really are mirror images of each other.

The thing that causes the “bashing” is not really Amendola it is the expectation set for Amendola last offseason and the in the preseason. When you build a player up the way that Amendola was built up and crown him the second coming before he even takes a snap like many did, if the player only produces about 50% of the previous player there is going to be disappointment. Especially when you factor into the equation that during his 6 seasons, Welker made an APY of $4.6 million ($3.6M APY over 5 years and $9.5M for 2012 franchise tag) and the new player is making an APY of $5.7 million.

I would have Amendola on my team too, but not for his current pay. That is the issue, a player is assessed based on the investment of the team, take Tavon Wilson for example, if he was a sixth round draft pick he would not be considered a disappointment, in fact as a rookie he would have been considered a steal, the fact that he was taken in the second round changes the perception.

One thing about Amendola that bothers me and always has is if he was such a terrific player, why Jeff Fisher just let him walk away. The Rams had plenty of cap space; they need offensive weapons as bad as any team in the NFL, why would they let him go. People forget that the Dolphins did not let Welker walk away they received a second and seventh round draft pick in exchange for him. The Rams let Amendola walk and received nothing. That is a red flag to me, in the NFL with tags, exclusive negotiation periods, etc. if teams have a good player they retain them.
 
My $.02 - while we have no way of knowing what role Amendola's health played in last year's performance, the bottom line was that he has not played at the level he is being paid at

Anytime that happens a player is at risk of being cut (or traded).
 
You mean like the Pats let JE walk away last year?
 
I guess we do not even know if the Patriots still see what they saw in Amendola when they signed him. * * * Lloyd, Johnson, Dowling, Price, Tate, Fells, Ballard, and others were all acquired and invested in based on something the Patriots saw, flash forward 12-24 months, and that is no longer the case.

Many of those are rookies, and frankly that is always a crap shoot. Chad Johnson was a player from a very different system who could not fit in the Pats offense. I believe when it's all said and done, there was hope Lloyd could fit in the Pats locker room, and in the end simply couldn't. He had a contract set-up for restructuring, but I heard little of efforts to do so. Fells was a low cost chance, as was Ballard (who was signed after a significant injury and was a low cost gamble on recovery).

Lloyd and Johnson were not injured. They appeared to be catastrophically bad fits when on the roster. Lloyd due to personality and Johnson due to an inability to pick up the offense at all. Neither left because he was displaced by another receiver.

54 receptions is far from awful for Amendola. If he was actually injured for much of the season, that is very productive. I haven't heard anything that would suggest the Pats are dissatisfied with him, or believe him to be a bad fit for the system.

I think it was clear that confidence in Amendola was not high at the conclusion of the 2013-14 season. He was the lead dog coming into the season, throughout training camp and preseason, he was injured in week one but upon his return he was worked into the lineup ahead of Edelman for the games leading up to the Broncos game and in the first half of the Broncos game. ***

The groin injury would have improved as the season progressed * * * I know you can point to the injury as cause but Amendola showed the ability to be productive in games with that injury so I cannot attribute it to the injury.

The Pats had nobody to throw to with experience, and Amendola played 12 of 16 games. If the injury was a serious groin injury, and he sat out only 4 weeks for an injury that requires 4 - 12 weeks recovery time, then how precisely is he recovering as the season goes on? He was either healthy, or he was not and would not be likely to improve if unhealthy due to continued play time. Any injured player is not going to play with 100% ability. Any attempt to assess when he was and was not catching passes has to involve what defenses were doing with other options. If he was being covered 1-on-1 by a LB, then he could still likely make plays. Not knowing what was going on injury-wise, there is simply no way to tell.

The reason not to wait is simple, do you continue to invest into something that you do not have confidence in with the hope it gets better, or do you cut your losses and move on. My question is why spend more money on Amendola, especially if that limits your ability to retain Edelman.

That is the problem. Throwing $4.8 million away, with no receiver and an escalating cap number, has literally nothing to do with JE. The Pats actually have more restrictions by cutting him. Salary cap management does not require future salary payment within the cap. It is the here and now. Promise JE $9.5 million over 2 years with $9 million next year and the hit is $500k. Teams have deadlines to make the cap figures work. If the Pats had to pay Amendola more than the dead money hit, it might make sense. But by your logic it would make sense to simply flush $5 million and pay for a replacement receiver. If he cannot play within the system (not apparently the case) or is a locker room problem (the same), then dump him for those reasons. Your investment logic is akin to losing money on a stock and giving the stock away to someone else rather than waiting to see if it rebounds or can be sold for less of a loss in the near future.
 
Wouldn't be surprised if its true, and the team on the other end is Houston. BB could be trying to sell Mallet and Amendola for a higher pick. BOB needs a slot wr and DA is from the Houston area.

All just speculation. Personally I hope its not true. I'm still a big Amendola supporter.
 
Wouldn't be surprised if its true, and the team on the other end is Houston. BB could be trying to sell Mallet and Amendola for a higher pick. BOB needs a slot wr and DA is from the Houston area.

All just speculation. Personally I hope its not true. I'm still a big Amendola supporter.

Okay, how about this: Houston has two players rumored to be upcoming cap casualties.

So Amendola and Mallet for Jonathan Joseph and Owen Daniels.

We get Joseph and so if we can't get the Talib deal done, no big deal. Houston has Daniels' replacement waiting in the wings and are going to let him hit FA by all reports.

Other than the dead money Houston eats for Joseph, which they'll eat if they cut him anyway, as is rumored, his contract will cost about the same as Amendola's. Obviously we would love Owen Daniels here and Houston doesn't want his cap hit (which will be much less than he'll probably get on the open market, given the Pitta deal).

Houston gets Mallet and the slot receiver they need.

We certainly "win" that trade, particularly since we re-up JE to fill the DA hole. But Houston "wins" too, since they are reportedly simply cutting the pair, and they'll get DA cheaper than they could get JE, if they could even get JE...and they get BOB's potential QB, allowing them to grab Mack or Clowney or a tackle in Round 1.

Speculation, the spice of the off-season.
 
Many of those are rookies, and frankly that is always a crap shoot. Chad Johnson was a player from a very different system who could not fit in the Pats offense. I believe when it's all said and done, there was hope Lloyd could fit in the Pats locker room, and in the end simply couldn't. He had a contract set-up for restructuring, but I heard little of efforts to do so. Fells was a low cost chance, as was Ballard (who was signed after a significant injury and was a low cost gamble on recovery).

Lloyd and Johnson were not injured. They appeared to be catastrophically bad fits when on the roster. Lloyd due to personality and Johnson due to an inability to pick up the offense at all. Neither left because he was displaced by another receiver.

Lloyd is comparable to Amendola; he entered with high expectations and had experience playing in a McDaniel’s system. Josh had coached Lloyd for multi seasons in Denver and St Louis so I would be surprised if there were, locker room issues that they were unaware of, I feel it was an exaggeration by the media; nobody from the Patriots camp including players has ever said anything negative about Lloyd. In my opinion it was more that Lloyd did not do what the team expected him to do, which was provide a downfield threat. Amendola is not much different; they expected him to be a reliable slot receiver and he did not do that for them.

54 receptions is far from awful for Amendola. If he was actually injured for much of the season, that is very productive. I haven't heard anything that would suggest the Pats are dissatisfied with him, or believe him to be a bad fit for the system.

If Amendola’s name has been part of a trade discussion or he is at risk for being cut then I would perceive that as the team being disappointed. That aside I do not recall anything said about Lloyd last season and he did not appear to be a horrible fit for the system either.

The Pats had nobody to throw to with experience, and Amendola played 12 of 16 games. If the injury was a serious groin injury, and he sat out only 4 weeks for an injury that requires 4 - 12 weeks recovery time, then how precisely is he recovering as the season goes on? He was either healthy, or he was not and would not be likely to improve if unhealthy due to continued play time. Any injured player is not going to play with 100% ability. Any attempt to assess when he was and was not catching passes has to involve what defenses were doing with other options. If he was being covered 1-on-1 by a LB, then he could still likely make plays. Not knowing what was going on injury-wise, there is simply no way to tell.

By the time, the AFC Championship game came along it had been it had been 20 weeks since he suffered the groin injury. During that time, he had sat out games 2, 3, 4, and 6, and he had week 9 and 18 as bye weeks. I feel as though he would have been healthiest in week 20 and that was his worst performance of the year.

He trended out for 72 receptions and 844 yards if he had played 16 games, he was replacing a player who had 118 receptions and 1354 yards, so I would wonder how much did the groin injury take away from his production? Is it the reason for the 46 receptions, 510 yard variance? On the other hand, did we pay $5.7 million APY for a player who is never going to give us the production that the prior player did for a $4.6 million APY over his 6 season here.

That is the problem. Throwing $4.8 million away, with no receiver and an escalating cap number, has literally nothing to do with JE. The Pats actually have more restrictions by cutting him. Salary cap management does not require future salary payment within the cap. It is the here and now. Promise JE $9.5 million over 2 years with $9 million next year and the hit is $500k. Teams have deadlines to make the cap figures work. If the Pats had to pay Amendola more than the dead money hit, it might make sense. But by your logic it would make sense to simply flush $5 million and pay for a replacement receiver. If he cannot play within the system (not apparently the case) or is a locker room problem (the same), then dump him for those reasons. Your investment logic is akin to losing money on a stock and giving the stock away to someone else rather than waiting to see if it rebounds or can be sold for less of a loss in the near future.

You are looking at 2014 only, if the Patriots retain Edelman long term the big picture is what things look like over a 4-5 year period. That means if they cut Amendola 2014 takes a hit but the other 3-4 years look much better, than if they prolong it and attempt to make both players fit into a system that they are both best fit to play the slot receiver in.

They can also save $2.88 million if they cut him as Miguel outlined.

Cut Danny Amendola before 4PM March 11 and make him a June 2 designation:

That means the Pats would carry his $3 million salary and his $375,000 roster bonus on their books until June 2nd. On June 2nd he would be released. His 2014 cap number would then drop from $4.575m to $1.2million ($1.2 million signing bonus proration) – net cap savings in 2014 of around $2.88 million.

His 2015 cap number would go from $5.575 million to $3.6 million.

- See more at: Danny Amendola ? Cap Scenarios atriots Salary Cap
 
Looks like I was wise to get a chinese knockoff Amendola jersey for $20 and the not the real thing...
 
To be fair, Pompei did write this. But he didn't actually say the Patriots are the ones floating his name.

it might be closer to the Bears' proposed three way trade so they could get Cutler.


Correct. A lot of people who apparently don't know who Pompei is seem to be acting like this is just a fabricated Bleacher Report speculation

Reiss offers his $.02 as well

After reading Dan Pompei’s NFL notes on the Bleacher Report, in which the respected Pompei reports that Danny Amendola’s name has been floated in trade talks, it makes one wonder if the Patriots are having some buyer’s remorse. I thought Amendola looked terrific in offseason camps, the preseason and the regular-season opener before significantly injuring his groin, and I put Amendola’s lower than expected production in that context. If I’m Amendola, it hurts to read that after playing through the groin injury in 2013. Quick-hit thoughts around NFL & Patriots - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Seems to me that if the salary cap impact is minimal (and it looks like they structured the contract so it would be) Belichick may opt to give the roster spot to someone else if he thinks he knows what he has in Amendola

And if no trade comes about, seeing as cutting him on June 1st would save some cap space, one has to think you'll continue to hear his name mentioned as on the hot seat

Again, I wasn't all that keen on Amendola given injury history but I have been and will continue to pull for him - though it sounds like there is some question whether his sub par performance last year truly was injury related

That being said, I wouldn't put it past Belichick to allow these rumors (which may or may not have started with the Patriots) to hang out there to spur Amendola to do better and work harder in the offseason
 
You mean like the Pats let JE walk away last year?


They actually let him gimp away on crutches last season. Much is made of the lack of interest in Edelman last season but what is overlooked is that he was on crutches during free agency and was not ready for the start of camp. This means had a team signed him he would not have been able to participate in the offseason workouts.
 
Okay, how about this: Houston has two players rumored to be upcoming cap casualties.

So Amendola and Mallet for Jonathan Joseph and Owen Daniels.

We get Joseph and so if we can't get the Talib deal done, no big deal. Houston has Daniels' replacement waiting in the wings and are going to let him hit FA by all reports.

Other than the dead money Houston eats for Joseph, which they'll eat if they cut him anyway, as is rumored, his contract will cost about the same as Amendola's. Obviously we would love Owen Daniels here and Houston doesn't want his cap hit (which will be much less than he'll probably get on the open market, given the Pitta deal).

Houston gets Mallet and the slot receiver they need.

We certainly "win" that trade, particularly since we re-up JE to fill the DA hole. But Houston "wins" too, since they are reportedly simply cutting the pair, and they'll get DA cheaper than they could get JE, if they could even get JE...and they get BOB's potential QB, allowing them to grab Mack or Clowney or a tackle in Round 1.

Speculation, the spice of the off-season.

I'm torn by that. I'd like Daniels and Joseph, but I still believe DA has a lot to give here.
 
TJ Moe will make Amendola expendable, if we can trade him and get something for him great.
 
Lloyd is comparable to Amendola; he entered with high expectations and had experience playing in a McDaniel’s system. Josh had coached Lloyd for multi seasons in Denver and St Louis so I would be surprised if there were, locker room issues that they were unaware of, I feel it was an exaggeration by the media; nobody from the Patriots camp including players has ever said anything negative about Lloyd.

The Pats don't talk to the media, so don't expect confirmation on problems with Lloyd. I didn't say Lloyd's quirks were unknown, however much as was the case with Haynesworth there have been occasions when the Pats believe a new environment can remedy defects when at times it cannot.

By the time, the AFC Championship game came along it had been it had been 20 weeks since he suffered the groin injury. During that time, he had sat out games 2, 3, 4, and 6, and he had week 9 and 18 as bye weeks. I feel as though he would have been healthiest in week 20 and that was his worst performance of the year.

I cannot answer the unanswerable here. Nor can you. There are degrees of injuries. Try not listening to doctors and running on a sprained ankle and tell me how long it limits your abilities and takes to heal. That would be a long time with continued use. If he were injured, and the team wanted him at 70% because 70% of Amendola was better than the other options, then the injury may well have never healed. If 100% of Edelman became a more palatable option for Brady and thus Brady threw to him more, then that says nothing of a healthy Amendola.

If you walk to work with a groin injury, it hurts. If you are not Joe Somebody on the streets and have to make high speed cuts with that injury playing a sport at the highest level imaginable, then it will impact your ability to play to some degree. Unless you have played professional football, you cannot fathom how much that can affect your play. Stats, with all the variables that can make a nobody a star on a given day, do not answer that question at all as a player can look stellar because nobody is really defending him. The numbers could be the injury, could be the fit in the system, or could be a product of any number of scenarios. We will never know.

You are looking at 2014 only, if the Patriots retain Edelman long term the big picture is what things look like over a 4-5 year period. That means if they cut Amendola 2014 takes a hit but the other 3-4 years look much better, than if they prolong it and attempt to make both players fit into a system that they are both best fit to play the slot receiver in.
They can also save $2.88 million if they cut him as Miguel outlined.

I am not looking at 2014 only. I read Miguel's summary quickly and missed that, so I agree it is a $2.9 million savings this year. The net loss over 2014 and 2015 is still $4.8 million with a quick termination of the deal. How are things much better long term by that? If the Pats bail and Amendola stays healthy, then that is about a $5 million failure in decisionmaking. In a multi-year deal, a first year cut is a major decision that should only be made if there is little chance of success. The salary cap, now and in the future, has risen, so $2.9 million savings this year should not greatly affect the ability to offer JE a multi-year deal if that is the direction chosen.

And the fact they both can play slot does not mean they are redundant. They are not the same player, with pros and cons physically, so they can both be on the field as wide receivers, which is ultimately the position they play. The Pats are known for creatively using players, and for a team with 5 receiver sets that may use a RB as a receiver or a LB as a receiver, it is not necessarily a case of one or the other.
 
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