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Julian Edelman doesn't tend to get the credit and respect he deserves around the league, but one former player took notice in a recent ESPN segment, putting him ahead of some notable names which created some controversy.

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Report: Patriots fired up over what they've seen from Jamie Collins

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Bradyking12, Jun 28, 2019.

  1. Wozzy

    Wozzy On the Game Day Roster

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    You never bothered to watch the video of Hightower calling Collins the best defensive player on the team. There was a question? Let's call it even. I'm getting dumber by the second trying to understand how an All Pro leading the team in almost every stat isn't good enough to be considered one of the best players on the team or how forced fumbles, sacks, interception and tackles aren't important, especially after watching every game. When Collins is yet again one of our best playmakers I'll be back to ask you to provide some film breakdown to explain how good actually sucks.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  2. Joey007

    Joey007 Pro Bowl Player

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    It’s nice that Buddha posts on our forum.
     
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  3. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I never said he wasn’t considered one of the best players. I said he wasn’t the best player.

    Of course now, despite me saying he opposite dozens of times, are lying to claim I said he sucks.

    So to recap.

    You said he was THE best player on the defense

    I disagreed.

    You said he has to be because stats.

    I explained why stats are a horrible way to rate and compare defensive players. I was complementary of Collins but said stats are an incomplete and sometimes misleading way to judge a player and while good he wasn’t the best player in the defense.

    You dodged that.
    Then you now come back with I said he sucked.

    Your constant actions in this thread of misrepresenting what I said, even outright lying about it and dodging the points I make as well as resorting to personal attacks either represent that you are incapable of accepting you are wrong or that you are playing games.


    I will repeat the question. Which is THE question that the entire back and forth has been about, despite your attempts to claim I says the exact opposite of what I really did, and the ad hoc personal attacks that you have used to deflect from what you clearly know you are wrong

     
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  4. betterthanthealternative

    betterthanthealternative PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Source of all wisdom, and all that.
     
  5. Wozzy

    Wozzy On the Game Day Roster

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    Personal attacks? I think your dismissal of stats as a measuring stick is absurd, hardly an attack. You offer no alternatives as a measuring stick other than your eyes, nor offer up a single player as a substitute, but instead rattle off a list of our best players. Revis is about the only player one could consider, at least in 2014. I would still place a premium on the defensive front over a defensive back, football is won in the trenches, we won a Super Bowl with Troy Brown playing nickel corner.

    Never once did I say stats alone is why Collins had to be considered our best defender, he was a force on the field, a tone setter, a workhorse, an impact player. Your question is misleading, it works under the assumption I never actually watched these games. I did.

    You're trying to suggest in your dismissal of stats that Collins was chasing players from behind to make tackles because he screwed up, or he was a weakness therefore opponents attacked him directly... that's also ridiculous. So while you may not have said he sucked, you want us to believe his production... his leading the team in just about EVERY MEANINGFUL STATISTIC is due to incompetence, or can be dismissed with a wave of your hand.

    I reject the notion that stats are not a good measuring stick. A lot of sacks, forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, interceptions, passes defensed, tackles for a loss, tackles, and solo tackles are a good thing, especially on a Super Bowl winning defense. Stats are the measurement of production, and Jamie Collins level of play never was a problem until he was grousing over his contract.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  6. Triumph

    Triumph Pro Bowl Player

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    Youre talking to a guy who was a big Maroney and Ochostinko fan.
     
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  7. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Florida Man PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You might legitimately be the only person besides the two of them who is actually reading that still. This should have either been done with within a couple of posts or taken to PM.
     
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  8. Joey007

    Joey007 Pro Bowl Player

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    And honestly this gets very irritating. This thread topic was something genuinely interesting. Then once again AJ gets into an argument with someone and it becomes a solid 5 pages of this never-ending circle of not actually making any legitimate points, just saying “you are wrong, that is a fact because I say so.”

    Call him out on it and he wants you to “Point out where I am wrong?” “Now you’re just making personal attacks.”
     
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  9. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Florida Man PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It’s great for new members that are lurking on here and trying to decide whether to jump in at the easiest time possible to learn some stuff or not.
     
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  10. Sicilian

    Sicilian Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    It's like when you see a couple fighting over peanut butter at a party, and you're like, "Oh my god! Why are they together? They must really hate each other!"

    And then someone in their circle is like, "Nah, ignore them. This is just what they do. They'll be f***ing in the closet in fifteen minutes."
     
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  11. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thanks. I had cut down on my alcohol consumption lately. Time to day drink now.
     
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  12. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It’s actually my fault, as I’m the one who brought him up. Sorry, but at least you can enjoy some day drinking, which I normally only reserve for Thanksgiving.
     
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  13. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Florida Man PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thanksgiving is in November. Not every day of the week.

    You drunk.
     
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  14. maust1013

    maust1013 In the Starting Line-Up

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    [​IMG]
     
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