Report: Patriots fired up over what they've seen from Jamie Collins

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Oct 25th

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Wozzy

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
You didn’t answer the question.
You never bothered to watch the video of Hightower calling Collins the best defensive player on the team. There was a question? Let's call it even. I'm getting dumber by the second trying to understand how an All Pro leading the team in almost every stat isn't good enough to be considered one of the best players on the team or how forced fumbles, sacks, interception and tackles aren't important, especially after watching every game. When Collins is yet again one of our best playmakers I'll be back to ask you to provide some film breakdown to explain how good actually sucks.
 
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Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
You never bothered to watch the video of Hightower calling Collins the best defensive player on the team. There was a question? Let's call it even. I'm getting dumber by the second trying to understand how an All Pro leading the team in almost every stat isn't good enough to be considered one of the best players on the team or how forced fumbles, sacks, interception and tackles aren't important, especially after watching every game. When Collins is yet again one of our best playmakers I'll be back to ask you to provide some film breakdown to explain how good actually sucks.
I never said he wasn’t considered one of the best players. I said he wasn’t the best player.

Of course now, despite me saying he opposite dozens of times, are lying to claim I said he sucks.

So to recap.

You said he was THE best player on the defense

I disagreed.

You said he has to be because stats.

I explained why stats are a horrible way to rate and compare defensive players. I was complementary of Collins but said stats are an incomplete and sometimes misleading way to judge a player and while good he wasn’t the best player in the defense.

You dodged that.
Then you now come back with I said he sucked.

Your constant actions in this thread of misrepresenting what I said, even outright lying about it and dodging the points I make as well as resorting to personal attacks either represent that you are incapable of accepting you are wrong or that you are playing games.


I will repeat the question. Which is THE question that the entire back and forth has been about, despite your attempts to claim I says the exact opposite of what I really did, and the ad hoc personal attacks that you have used to deflect from what you clearly know you are wrong

Which is a better way to evaluate defensive football players? Comparing their statistics without context or watching their plays and evaluating them?
 

Wozzy

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
I never said he wasn’t considered one of the best players. I said he wasn’t the best player.

Of course now, despite me saying he opposite dozens of times, are lying to claim I said he sucks.

So to recap.

You said he was THE best player on the defense

I disagreed.

You said he has to be because stats.

I explained why stats are a horrible way to rate and compare defensive players. I was complementary of Collins but said stats are an incomplete and sometimes misleading way to judge a player and while good he wasn’t the best player in the defense.

You dodged that.
Then you now come back with I said he sucked.

Your constant actions in this thread of misrepresenting what I said, even outright lying about it and dodging the points I make as well as resorting to personal attacks either represent that you are incapable of accepting you are wrong or that you are playing games.


I will repeat the question. Which is THE question that the entire back and forth has been about, despite your attempts to claim I says the exact opposite of what I really did, and the ad hoc personal attacks that you have used to deflect from what you clearly know you are wrong
Personal attacks? I think your dismissal of stats as a measuring stick is absurd, hardly an attack. You offer no alternatives as a measuring stick other than your eyes, nor offer up a single player as a substitute, but instead rattle off a list of our best players. Revis is about the only player one could consider, at least in 2014. I would still place a premium on the defensive front over a defensive back, football is won in the trenches, we won a Super Bowl with Troy Brown playing nickel corner.

Never once did I say stats alone is why Collins had to be considered our best defender, he was a force on the field, a tone setter, a workhorse, an impact player. Your question is misleading, it works under the assumption I never actually watched these games. I did.

You're trying to suggest in your dismissal of stats that Collins was chasing players from behind to make tackles because he screwed up, or he was a weakness therefore opponents attacked him directly... that's also ridiculous. So while you may not have said he sucked, you want us to believe his production... his leading the team in just about EVERY MEANINGFUL STATISTIC is due to incompetence, or can be dismissed with a wave of your hand.

I reject the notion that stats are not a good measuring stick. A lot of sacks, forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, interceptions, passes defensed, tackles for a loss, tackles, and solo tackles are a good thing, especially on a Super Bowl winning defense. Stats are the measurement of production, and Jamie Collins level of play never was a problem until he was grousing over his contract.
 
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KontradictioN

Probably the nicest guy on the forum
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
In this particular back and forth with AJ I see the truth in what he says. His opponent applied something to him that he didn't say.
You might legitimately be the only person besides the two of them who is actually reading that still. This should have either been done with within a couple of posts or taken to PM.
 

Joey007

Pro Bowl Player
You might legitimately be the only person besides the two of them who is actually reading that still. This should have either been done with within a couple of posts or taken to PM.
And honestly this gets very irritating. This thread topic was something genuinely interesting. Then once again AJ gets into an argument with someone and it becomes a solid 5 pages of this never-ending circle of not actually making any legitimate points, just saying “you are wrong, that is a fact because I say so.”

Call him out on it and he wants you to “Point out where I am wrong?” “Now you’re just making personal attacks.”
 

KontradictioN

Probably the nicest guy on the forum
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
And honestly this gets very irritating. This thread topic was something genuinely interesting. Then once again AJ gets into an argument with someone and it becomes a solid 5 pages of this never-ending circle of not actually making any legitimate points, just saying “you are wrong, that is a fact because I say so.”

Call him out on it and he wants you to “Point out where I am wrong?” “Now you’re just making personal attacks.”
It’s great for new members that are lurking on here and trying to decide whether to jump in at the easiest time possible to learn some stuff or not.
 

Sicilian

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
It’s great for new members that are lurking on here and trying to decide whether to jump in at the easiest time possible to learn some stuff or not.

It's like when you see a couple fighting over peanut butter at a party, and you're like, "Oh my god! Why are they together? They must really hate each other!"

And then someone in their circle is like, "Nah, ignore them. This is just what they do. They'll be f***ing in the closet in fifteen minutes."
 

The Brandon Five

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
To paraphrase Julian Edelman & Tedy Bruschi: he didn't want it enough.

Pierre Woods is Dead to me. He occupies a special place in my own personal Hell, alongside Chris Harper & Eric Alexander.

That one play was one of the main reasons why we lost...had he actually wanted it enough, his recovery would've placed us in 47-yard FG range (Vagiants' 30).

Thanks. I had cut down on my alcohol consumption lately. Time to day drink now.
 

supafly

Suddenly sad and Brady-less
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2019 Weekly Picks Winner
Thanks. I had cut down on my alcohol consumption lately. Time to day drink now.
It’s actually my fault, as I’m the one who brought him up. Sorry, but at least you can enjoy some day drinking, which I normally only reserve for Thanksgiving.
 

KontradictioN

Probably the nicest guy on the forum
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
It’s actually my fault, as I’m the one who brought him up. Sorry, but at least you can enjoy some day drinking, which I normally only reserve for Thanksgiving.
Thanksgiving is in November. Not every day of the week.

You drunk.
 

maust1013

Just Another Guy
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
 
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