Red Zone Problems on Offense for 3 Straight Years

[NewEraWithMac]

A lot of good thoughts. I dunno who you mean was naysaying back then but I was all for the 2009-2012 drafts. The Pats went to a 2TE offense which I knew would be lethal. Gronk and Edelman, so great. McCourty and Chung, mainstays for 3 rings. And I was a big fan of the Hightower and Jones picks.

Multiple articles have shown the 2013-2019 Pats drafts were among the league's worst. It's hard to spin this.

But, if vet players are on the team who are maybe blocking a draft pick's development because BB went for it. You keep saying "multiple articles". You do realize this crap gets recycled and pasted on the web, so even it's inaccurate, if it gets repeated, disinformation can be believed by the public, right?

This is like being angry that the 2007 and 2008 drafts didn't yield much. How many of those players would have beaten out some of their FA signings on those teams? 1 player? Maybe 2? And, those drafts were notoriously weak anyway.

It's not different than the facts on Spygate, Deflategate or Documentarygate. The public is so jealous of what BB has provided Pats fans for 20 years, it generates those clicks on the articles. They see the hits, and another "article" is recycled to get clicks for a different company. You may want to follow more of the NFL, because I can guarantee you the majority of the league has worse drafts than our team does.

This is like saying the Yankees drafted poorly from 98-01 as they won 3 straight titles. No, they won 3 titles in that time span, so it's unrealistic to think they could be perfect drafting and winning titles after that.

Also, I am not spinning anything. We're 3 seasons removed from a dynasty, the 2nd in the Cap Era, when no team has 1. Only Denver even sniffed it and they had to cheat to get 2 rings. If BB hadn't gone all in and gone after a 2nd dynasty in that window, traded out of drafts, didn't sign Gilmore, etc, fans would claim he was being passive.

Heck, we don't even know the final score of the JimmyG trade for example.

And the stolen picks only helped the weak angle that he was drafting poorly. So, he had less to work with in particular in the 2017 draft, so he looked elsewhere via trades (using picks), and signing key FAs (Bennett, Long, LaFell, etc).

How many teams lose picks for punishment anyway? Answer? Zero. Goodell only punishes us with fake stories and that's by design. They know how much BB covets picks, especially 2011 and after with the Rookie Cap. The more he has, the better he is.

And, Kraft shouldn't have said what he said about 1st and 2nd year players during a pandemic either. Very unprofessional of him. He walks by those guys every game now in the locker room. Bad form. Bobby needed to step down about 4 years ago.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

But, if vet players are on the team who are maybe blocking a draft pick's development because BB went for it. You keep saying "multiple articles". You do realize this crap gets recycled and pasted on the web, so even it's inaccurate, if it gets repeated, disinformation can be believed by the public, right?

This is like being angry that the 2007 and 2008 drafts didn't yield much. How many of those players would have beaten out some of their FA signings on those teams? 1 player? Maybe 2? And, those drafts were notoriously weak anyway.

It's not different than the facts on Spygate, Deflategate or Documentarygate. The public is so jealous of what BB has provided Pats fans for 20 years, it generates those clicks on the articles. They see the hits, and another "article" is recycled to get clicks for a different company. You may want to follow more of the NFL, because I can guarantee you the majority of the league has worse drafts than our team does.

This is like saying the Yankees drafted poorly from 98-01 as they won 3 straight titles. No, they won 3 titles in that time span, so it's unrealistic to think they could be perfect drafting and winning titles after that.

Also, I am not spinning anything. We're 3 seasons removed from a dynasty, the 2nd in the Cap Era, when no team has 1. Only Denver even sniffed it and they had to cheat to get 2 rings. If BB hadn't gone all in and gone after a 2nd dynasty in that window, traded out of drafts, didn't sign Gilmore, etc, fans would claim he was being passive.

Heck, we don't even know the final score of the JimmyG trade for example.

And the stolen picks only helped the weak angle that he was drafting poorly. So, he had less to work with in particular in the 2017 draft, so he looked elsewhere via trades (using picks), and signing key FAs (Bennett, Long, LaFell, etc).

How many teams lose picks for punishment anyway? Answer? Zero. Goodell only punishes us with fake stories and that's by design. They know how much BB covets picks, especially 2011 and after with the Rookie Cap. The more he has, the better he is.

And, Kraft shouldn't have said what he said about 1st and 2nd year players during a pandemic either. Very unprofessional of him. He walks by those guys every game now in the locker room. Bad form. Bobby needed to step down about 4 years ago.

Interesting you point out the 98-01 Yankees. Those teams were DEFINITELY built off when Michaels was the GM there. Look at their roster, all their many foundation guys both hitters and pitchers were from previous year drafts and player development. I think you're too invested in defending the 2013-2019 crappy Patriot draft periods. By any objective measurement the Pats were among the 5-worst drafting teams during this period. Naming 4-5 player names out of a 6 year period taking a half dozen players every year, is not good.

.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

 

[stcjones]

1. Lazar posted today the 2021 Pats are only 2 for 7 in the red zone through two games. Problem is this issue has been going on 3 years in a row. We have a one-trick pony OC whose play-calling in the red zone is atrocious. Our OC is playing predictable checkers against DCs playing chess. Where is the play-action? Where are the slants, or endzone fade routes? Where are targets to tight ends in the endzone?

2. Here are some numbers from the 2019 season when Tom Brady was here:
27th in the NFL in red zone offense.
28th in converting plays that need 3 or fewer yards.
Last in TE touchdowns.

3. I won't say much about 2020 except more red zone woes, dead last in TE production, and also can't blame Cam when the red zone play-calling tried to repeatedly run it every time without any disguise.

In 2021 we have an OC who has no idea what to do with 2 good tight ends. The OC is obsessed with 11-personnel shotgun passes which are predictable.

It has been 3 years in a row of terrible red zone conversions. 2019 even when we had the GOAT QB here, 2020, now 2021. A bucket of excuses every year. Red zone woes in 2021 continue to be something to watch, as the team realizes we need a new offensive coordinator for 2022.

2019: Red zone and short-yardage failures

Patriots offense couldn't get the 'gotta have it' yards in 2019

Red zone and short-yardage situations were ultimately the fatal flaw for the 2019 Patriots offense.

www.patriots.com

2019: Red Zone Issues

Patriots need better red zone offense to survive gauntlet of schedule

The Patriots aren't cashing in when they get to the red zone - and that's a huge problem with games coming up against some of the best offenses in the NFL.

musketfire.com

2019: "How bad are the Pats in the red zone?"

How bad are the Patriots’ troubles in the red zone? - The Boston Globe

The Patriots are 24th in red-zone offense. They were 15th last year, and fifth, eighth, fourth, and ninth the four years before that.

www.bostonglobe.com

2020: Patriots "were too predictable in the red zone"

Patriots were too predictable in red zone last year. That should improve after spending spree

The Patriots made it too easy for defenses to keep them out of the end zone last year. With Jonnu Smith and Hunter Henry, that changes.

theathletic.com

Amen….used to be that cartoon of Pat Patriot running into to the brick wall and falling down….and that’s today’s Pats

 

[NewEraWithMac]

Interesting you point out the 98-01 Yankees. Those teams were DEFINITELY built off when Michaels was the GM there. Look at their roster, all their many foundation guys both hitters and pitchers were from previous year drafts and player development. I think you're too invested in defending the 2013-2019 crappy Patriot draft periods. By any objective measurement the Pats were among the 5-worst drafting teams during this period. Naming 4-5 player names out of a 6 year period taking a half dozen players every year, is not good.

.

Yeah, and it took Michaels the entire first half of that decade to plan those seeds with the homegrown talent. The Yankees were awful in the early 90s.

Your drafts are fine if your goal is to use picks to get good veteran talent and/or sign FAs because you're trying to win as many SBs before your HOF QB leaves. And, that's on top of your aging, whiny QB not wanting to deal with new draft picks because he's been spoiled being developed by BB. That's a whole other story. So, even when BB appeases Brady to make sure he gets some proven commodities in there, those commidoties likely blocked any picks from getting time and reps.

You clearly don't watch the NFL if you think NE is drafting at the bottom of the barrel from 2013-2019.

Right now I am watching KC's future HOF QB in Mahomes, have a horrible passer in Lamar Jackson shred the KC D. How good has KCs drafting been? Look at their D. It's as bad as it's always been.

Lastly, I only named a slew of players off the top of my head. I am sure there are other names I can throw in there that had some smaller roles in helping win games.

I only expect 2 starters/possible cornerstone players per draft and maybe 2 more who can contribute in other ways (STs, spot player, good back up, etc). Any expectation more than that seems obsessive.

There are 53 players on a roster and player movement is pretty constant throughout the NFL for a variety of reasons. Only 11 player start one side or the other. It's seem silly to think more than 2 good/great starters can be gained from 1 draft as if it's an automatic elsewhere. If we get 3 nice players out of a draft, I think that's very good.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Yeah, and it took Michaels the entire first half of that decade to plan those seeds with the homegrown talent. The Yankees were awful in the early 90s.

Your drafts are fine if your goal is to use picks to get good veteran talent and/or sign FAs because you're trying to win as many SBs before your HOF QB leaves. And, that's on top of your aging, whiny QB not wanting to deal with new draft picks because he's been spoiled being developed by BB. That's a whole other story. So, even when BB appeases Brady to make sure he gets some proven commodities in there, those commidoties likely blocked any picks from getting time and reps.

You clearly don't watch the NFL if you think NE is drafting at the bottom of the barrel from 2013-2019.

Right now I am watching KC's future HOF QB in Mahomes, have a horrible passer in Lamar Jackson shred the KC D. How good has KCs drafting been? Look at their D. It's as bad as it's always been.

Lastly, I only named a slew of players off the top of my head. I am sure there are other names I can throw in there that had some smaller roles in helping win games.

I only expect 2 starters/possible cornerstone players per draft and maybe 2 more who can contribute in other ways (STs, spot player, good back up, etc). Any expectation more than that seems obsessive.

There are 53 players on a roster and player movement is pretty constant throughout the NFL for a variety of reasons. Only 11 player start one side or the other. It's seem silly to think more than 2 good/great starters can be gained from 1 draft as if it's an automatic elsewhere. If we get 3 nice players out of a draft, I think that's very good.

A ton of articles like below, I don't need to rehash for you. You can believe whatever you want. End of the day I'm extremely glad since 2019 they brought in or elevated Eliot Wolf and Groh and also Patricia to help in the front office. Even though Kraft publicly acknowledged this issue as well, you can live in denial. It's all good.

Why the Patriots’ draft misses are driving their downfall

The Patriots’ drafts from 2016-19 rank sixth-worst in the NFL, per career Approximate Value.

www.bostonherald.com

 

[NewEraWithMac]

A ton of articles like below, I don't need to rehash for you. You can believe whatever you want. End of the day I'm extremely glad since 2019 they brought in or elevated Eliot Wolf and Groh and also Patricia to help in the front office. Even though Kraft publicly acknowledged this issue as well, you can live in denial. It's all good.

Why the Patriots’ draft misses are driving their downfall

The Patriots’ drafts from 2016-19 rank sixth-worst in the NFL, per career Approximate Value.

www.bostonherald.com

So, how does a GM form a 2nd dynasty and be expected to form a great youth movement immediately? How does that work exactly?

You can post 5 billion anti-BB GM articles that are recycled, until the cows come home, it still doesn't change the fact of pouty Brady>Pandemic/Newton is a thing that happened. That's a bad environment.

Again, it's moronic to think a team who finishes a dynasty should just be great 1 year removed from it based on their recent drafts.

 

[rochrist]

They still have the training wheels on Mac.

2 games into the season for crissakes.

But if they had him airing it out and he threw a pick they'd be screaming about how he sucks and Bill the GM!

 

[DropKickFlutie]

So, how does a GM form a 2nd dynasty and be expected to form a great youth movement immediately? How does that work exactly?

You can post 5 billion anti-BB GM articles that are recycled, until the cows come home, it still doesn't change the fact of pouty Brady>Pandemic/Newton is a thing that happened. That's a bad environment.

Again, it's moronic to think a team who finishes a dynasty should just be great 1 year removed from it based on their recent drafts.

Bob Kraft agreed they haven't been good.

Look at this list. It's a pathetic draft list from 2013-2019. A ton of excuses can't explain it away. Just move on, it's been rectified since 2019 with changes in the front office.

New England Patriots All-Time Draft History | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the complete draft history of New England Patriots starting from 1936 to present including year by year draft picks on Pro-Football-Reference.com

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[rochrist]

A ton of articles like below, I don't need to rehash for you. You can believe whatever you want. End of the day I'm extremely glad since 2019 they brought in or elevated Eliot Wolf and Groh and also Patricia to help in the front office. Even though Kraft publicly acknowledged this issue as well, you can live in denial. It's all good.

Why the Patriots’ draft misses are driving their downfall

The Patriots’ drafts from 2016-19 rank sixth-worst in the NFL, per career Approximate Value.

www.bostonherald.com

How many times are you going to post the same article? From the Herald no less, right above the dead blonde girl and who wore what at the Emmys.

 

[FCB02062]

I think the Pats coaching staff needs to get the hook. Josh blows and Bill is getting too old. Matt P is a boot licking clown. We have our QB of the future, it's time to burn the coaching staff and scouting/drafting department to the ground. Mayo our next HC? Or Stefanski from Cle would be interesting.

Mayo destroyed the defense, he needs to be ****canned... can't get off the field when it matters vs good teams since 2019

 

[thecore762]

I can’t stand McDaniels…we need someone new! redzone offense has been awful!

 

[TheRainMaker]

Bob Kraft agreed they haven't been good.

Look at this list. It's a pathetic draft list from 2013-2019. A ton of excuses can't explain it away. Just move on, it's been rectified since 2019 with changes in the front office.

New England Patriots All-Time Draft History | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the complete draft history of New England Patriots starting from 1936 to present including year by year draft picks on Pro-Football-Reference.com

www.pro-football-reference.com

Better drafts and Brady is still here. It’s that simple.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

Bob Kraft agreed they haven't been good.

Look at this list. It's a pathetic draft list from 2013-2019. A ton of excuses can't explain it away. Just move on, it's been rectified since 2019 with changes in the front office.

New England Patriots All-Time Draft History | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the complete draft history of New England Patriots starting from 1936 to present including year by year draft picks on Pro-Football-Reference.com

www.pro-football-reference.com

Kraft also goes in and pays for something in a strip mall and probably should have stepped aside. I am not sure Bob is qualified to analyze these things. His team, certainly his opinion.

 

[rochrist]

Kraft also goes in and pays for something in a strip mall and probably should have stepped aside. I am not sure Bob is qualified to analyze these things. His team, certainly his opinion.

It isn't his job to analyze these things, it's his job to stay the **** out of the way. The last thing we want is Jerry Jones east.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Better drafts and Brady is still here. It’s that simple.

Yes. That's the worst part. Harry, Michel, Sanu wasting of draft capital was the final straw. mcd not only is a terrible play caller but his ineptidue as a talent evaluator led to the goat taking off for better pastures.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Kraft also goes in and pays for something in a strip mall and probably should have stepped aside. I am not sure Bob is qualified to analyze these things. His team, certainly his opinion.

Why do you keep changing the subject.

Just look at how crappy this draft list was before Wolf showed up and after Reese+O'Brien left:

New England Patriots All-Time Draft History | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the complete draft history of New England Patriots starting from 1936 to present including year by year draft picks on Pro-Football-Reference.com

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

You may not like the constant posts about McDaniels but just out of curiosity on a scale of 1-10 what’s everyone’s confidence level in Mcdaniels if he is BBs successor?

(Does the OP have to be the one to put a poll up on this question?)

 

[DropKickFlutie]

You may not like the constant posts about McDaniels but just out of curiosity on a scale of 1-10 what’s everyone’s confidence level in Mcdaniels if he is BBs successor?

(Does the OP have to be the one to put a poll up on this question?)

-1000

 

[NewEraWithMac]

Yes. That's the worst part. Harry, Michel, Sanu wasting of draft capital was the final straw. mcd not only is a terrible play caller but his ineptidue as a talent evaluator led to the goat taking off for better pastures.

I'm not buying this. Those 2 are good friends and the same age. You could argue one fed the other too much in terms of wanting too much of the same goal too fast. BB asked McDaniels to come back by design in 2012 and Mike Lombardi was a consultant starting in 2010. Haven't you read his book?

The roots of Brady finally leaving were sown back in 2014 when Belichick drafted Garoppolo and Bill working with Garoppolo everyday. Brady knew what that meant.

Blaming Harry, Michel or Sanu is weird. They are newer players. BB sold out for the last couple titles, admitted it, and it worked.