Red Zone Problems on Offense for 3 Straight Years

[DropKickFlutie]

If they ran play action on that last RedZone series where the jets had everyone on the line I bet they score.

I think they are being very conservative with Mac. Hopefully they change the play calling around. We are going to need to play better against the saints if we want to win.

It's not even about being conservative with Mac. They run a lot of shotgun that is getting the kid hit a lot. It's a total lack of imagination or strategy in the red zone. A better word than conservative is stupid play calling.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

nah, just tired of it... think i will ignore him for a few months... maybe the insanity will stop by then

Do it buddy. I'm not offended. Just don't read the thread. Keep telling yourself the red zone offense is great. Hopefully you'll be more annoyed by the red zone woes. If it improves I won't have to call it out. If you think it's been happening awhile, well yes the offensive playcalling has been a problem for awhile.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Haven’t been a big fan of some of the playcalling either. Seems kind of predictable, but I’d rather have them playing it safe with the rookie and opening it up later on as he feels more comfortable No need to have him blowing the game with Wilson like interceptions and shattering his confidence with agressive playcalling.

 

[Jim Beankie]

Maybe I'm delusional, but I I think they're saving the good stuff.

So far, I don't see any of these red zone opp failures being anything related to playcalling except for maybe #6. It's a shame we only got to the red zone 3 times today (in addition to Harris's 26yd rumble). Mac needs more time in the pocket.

1) Holding derailed
2) TD pass
3) Missed pass to Meyers on 3rd down
4) Harris Fumble

5) TD
6) 1yd run, incompl, -1yd pass
7) Clock killing End of game FG

Regardless, I just watched that out/pivot route by Mike Evans from TB, and I'm thinking why can't it be that easy for once over the last few years.

 

[RobertWeathers]

They still have the training wheels on Mac.

2 games into the season for crissakes.

 

[scott99]

nah, just tired of it... think i will ignore him for a few months... maybe the insanity will stop by then

Don’t hold your breath, it’s been going on for years. Apparently Belichick has no say in the draft as well.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

I think McDaniels is overrated, but it's still very early. I wouldn't lump in a pouty/checked out Brady in 2019 and Cam Newton's nightmarish presence during a pandemic as the norm.

If, in a month, it still looks like this, sure. I prefer to use patience and watch for little signs and baby steps.

Example: Myth: Our WRs can't get "separation" yet I see separation and Meyers being held up the left flank and no call on it. Separation can partially come from playcalling and rhythm. As long as he keeps Mac in time and there is balance, there will be better red zone opportunities that can be had.

As far as the red zone goes, believe it or not, in 3 weeks there is a guy who can probably help with that at WR. In the mean time, stay the course by not turning it over and work on proper fundamentals. Red zone improvement will come. There is too much talent for it not to improve.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Haven’t been a big fan of some of the playcalling either. Seems kind of predictable, but I’d rather have them playing it safe with the rookie and opening it up later on as he feels more comfortable No need to have him blowing the game with Wilson like interceptions and shattering his confidence with agressive playcalling.

Problem is they're not playing it safe. 15 shotgun snaps in the first half was leaving Mac open to hits.

It's not about "opening it up". It's about zero imagination in the red zone. Play action would protect Mac. TEs blocking and releasing in the red zone protect Mac.

If it was about protecting Mac we would be in max protect but we're not, Mac was getting killed in the first half.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Apparently Belichick has no say in the draft as well.

Belichick can draft great as evidenced by 2001-2004 and 2009-2012. BB's 20 year record probably is better than anyone. BB finding all stars out of undrafted guys and 7th round picks is special. He's also reliant on his staff and who he's talking to. The crappiest Patriot draft periods have coincided with the same oc here, 2005-2008 and 2013-2019.

 

[SVN]

Reminds me of the days when there was a poster by the name of "NEM"

 

[Zuma]

Just rename him “son of NEM”

I literally took that username 10-15 years ago…but I dig what your cooking.

 

[mgteich]

@Ian can you please stop dropkickflutie from posting the same anti-mcdniels screed over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over

Just like being asked for some posts to be labelled "OT", he should be asked to label these posts as "NEM" or at least as "OC"

 

[NewEraWithMac]

Belichick can draft great as evidenced by 2001-2004 and 2009-2012. BB's 20 year record probably is better than anyone. BB finding all stars out of undrafted guys and 7th round picks is special. He's also reliant on his staff and who he's talking to. The crappiest Patriot draft periods have coincided with the same oc here, 2005-2008 and 2013-2019.

You gotta be careful with these time stamps on drafts. The 2009-2012 drafts featured tons of whining by entitled, crybaby Pats fans at the time that didn't want BB to take advantage of the Rookie Cap which was new in the 2011 CBA. Many fans had no idea what he was doing and our entire society has no patience anyway. He loaded up on picks and did draft well, but many of those players were mocked daily on messageboards, with fans listening to Felger and Mazz like morons. The media had a field day with it. I remember guys like Hightower mocked by 98.5, McCourty, Nink (I know not a draft pick by NE), etc, etc, etc, etc. It was relentless, so people became conditioned to believing a misrepresentation.

It takes 2-3 years to really see players evolved in the league, or devolve, for that matter. As BB said, he went for a dynasty from 2014 and beyond likely knowing he needed veterans and some small infusions of talent because he already had his base of players.

And, his 2013-2016 drafts weren't that bad. Plenty of standout names are there. Butler, White, Trey Flowers, Thuney, Mason, Andrews, Jon Jones, etc. There's a lot to like.

From the 2009/2010 start of the rebuild, his trades, minimal, yet strategic FA signings (Revis, Gilmore, etc) that came later were always going to block draft picks from emerging around that time. The team got old from it, he probably knew Brady was gone with his desires to start over with a new QB, meant loading up on picks and doing what he did from 2009-2012.

Also those drafts were deep. He also trades out of the weaker classes and looks elsewhere.

We don't have a clue on how the 2019-2021 drafts will end up. Right now, it's a mixed bag because they are just now starting out on this journey with a QB they believe in.

And, you can't discount Goodell's continued cheating to weaken this franchise with the stolen picks in 2017 and 2020. He'd likely have a couple more key cornerstone players in here if not for the obvious collusion by 345 Park Ave and multiple owners on the phone telling Goodell what to do.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

You gotta be careful with these time stamps on drafts. The 2009-2012 drafts featured tons of whining by entitled, crybaby Pats fans at the time that didn't want BB to take advantage of the Rookie Cap which was new in the 2011 CBA. Many fans had no idea what he was doing and our entire society has no patience anyway. He loaded up on picks and did draft well, but many of those players were mocked daily on messageboards, with fans listening to Felger and Mazz like morons. The media had a field day with it. I remember guys like Hightower mocked by 98.5, McCourty, Nink (I know not a draft pick by NE), etc, etc, etc, etc. It was relentless, so people became conditioned to believing a misrepresentation.

It takes 2-3 years to really see players evolved in the league, or devolve, for that matter. As BB said, he went for a dynasty from 2014 and beyond likely knowing he needed veterans and some small infusions of talent because he already had his base of players.

And, his 2013-2016 drafts weren't that bad. Plenty of standout names are there. Butler, White, Trey Flowers, Thuney, Mason, Andrews, Jon Jones, etc. There's a lot to like.

From the 2009/2010 start of the rebuild, his trades, minimal, yet strategic FA signings (Revis, Gilmore, etc) that came later were always going to block draft picks from emerging around that time. The team got old from it, he probably knew Brady was gone with his desires to start over with a new QB, meant loading up on picks and doing what he did from 2009-2012.

Also those drafts were deep. He also trades out of the weaker classes and looks elsewhere.

We don't have a clue on how the 2019-2021 drafts will end up. Right now, it's a mixed bag because they are just now starting out on this journey with a QB they believe in.

And, you can't discount Goodell's continued cheating to weaken this franchise with the stolen picks in 2017 and 2020. He'd likely have a couple more key cornerstone players in here if not for the obvious collusion by 345 Park Ave and multiple owners on the phone telling Goodell what to do.

A lot of good thoughts. I dunno who you mean was naysaying back then but I was all for the 2009-2012 drafts. The Pats went to a 2TE offense which I knew would be lethal. Gronk and Edelman, so great. McCourty and Chung, mainstays for 3 rings. And I was a big fan of the Hightower and Jones picks.

Multiple articles have shown the 2013-2019 Pats drafts were among the league's worst. It's hard to spin this.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Just like being asked for some posts to be labelled "OT", he should be asked to label these posts as "NEM" or at least as "OC"

The title literally is self explanatory. Go read about something else if you want to stick your head in the sand.

 

[condon84]

and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over

time for new material dude

Imagine if you had to use a screen reader to use the internet came upon this post

 

[NewEraWithMac]

A lot of good thoughts. I dunno who you mean was naysaying back then but I was all for the 2009-2012 drafts. The Pats went to a 2TE offense which I knew would be lethal. Gronk and Edelman, so great. McCourty and Chung, mainstays for 3 rings. And I was a big fan of the Hightower and Jones picks.

Multiple articles have shown the 2013-2019 Pats drafts were among the league's worst. It's hard to spin this.

And, the media knows they can't bash the greatest Coach in North American sports history, so they use the crapshoot angle of the draft to do it, even though if you look at other NFL teams' drafts, they're way worse. Look at GB right now with Rodgers. We hear nothing about how abd they were.

Leading up to the 2014-2018 2nd dynasty, it was Ozzie Newsome and Ted Thompson that they media kept telling you and I were just fantastic, and both were fired. They sucked after winning their ring. The media likes to bash Belichick and hitch their wagon to hype. Rinse and repeat.

People just don't do their homework and look around. They let someone else who appears to know things, to serve it for them. People just accept what's written by an authority figure on their internet screen. You have the right to your opinion, but it doesn't make sense to me. If he drafted poorly in that period, no way they form a dynasty. Heck, even the last SB win proves that. It was won by the D and RBs.

Also, BB used a lot of picks to trade to get veterans in there, to build that 2nd dynasty. Lastly, who cares if you get em in the draft, trade, UDFA, FA signing, etc. Who cares how it's done as long as he's fiscally responsible (which he always is). As Mike Lombardi said, "this was always the plan (all in with Brady before BB walked for good, and face an eventual 2-3 year rebuild).

If BB zigs and the league zags, and he builds a 2nd dynasty, "bad drafting" is a red herring from 2013-2019. Completely irrelevant. You don't build a dynasty in this league without drafting well.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Imagine if you had to use a screen reader to use the internet came upon this post

I love that he chimes in though despite not liking the topic, maybe it's his cousin. Always glad to talk about how much the oc sucks especially using real red zone woes evidence. He could just ignore. But when he does chime in I am more than happy to keep it going.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

And, the media knows they can't bash the greatest Coach in North American sports history, so they use the crapshoot angle of the draft to do it, even though if you look at other NFL teams' drafts, they're way worse. Look at GB right now with Rodgers. We hear nothing about how had they were.

Leading up to the 2014-2018 2nd dynasty, it was Ozzie Newsome and Ted Thompson that they media kept telling you and I were just fantastic, and both were fired. They sucked after winning their ring. The media likes to bash Belichick and hitch their wagon to hype. Rinse and repeat.

People just don't do their homework and look around. People just accept what's written by an authority figure on their internet screen.

Also, BB used a lot of picks to trade to get veterans in there, to build that 2nd dynasty. Lastly, who cares if you get em in the draft, trade, UDFA, FA signing, etc. Who cares how it's done as long as he's fiscally responsible (which he always is). As Mike Lombardi said, "this was always the plan (all in with Brady before BB walked for good, and face an eventual 2-3 year rebuild).

If BB zigs and the league zags, and he builds a 2nd dynasty, "bad drafting" is a red herring from 2013-2019. Completely irrelevant. You don't build a dynasty in this league without drafting well.

Your last sentence is true. And the last 3 rings were built off the 2009-2012 drafts and also the Pats have been going downhill since because of how bad the 2013-2019 drafts were. But yes it's amazing how BB is able to find all stars out of 7th round picks and undrafted guys, it's a huge huge advantage that negates some total bust picks at WR and CB.

 

[Wozzy]

Every season is a new one, last season has nothing to do with this one. Just silly