Ravens Week Discussion

[RabbidRvnFan]

Sounds like a match made in heaven for Moss.

Exactly what worries me about this game Moss and Brady finding their groove. but then again Ed Reed still eases some of that worry

 

[jmt57]

Our offensive and defensive lines make theirs look like a college team. That is a fact.

By 'fact', would that be the same as your 'proof' in threads you started here two years ago that the Pats beat Panthers in the Super Bowl because you were convinced they had taped Carolina's practices, and beat the Eagles in the Super Bowl only because they broke down defensive signals from film during halftime?


Are the Ravens' lines better than the Falcons? Yes, most likely. But that's an opinion, not a fact. Atlanta was a playoff team last year that ranked 6th in total yards and 2nd in rushing yards. Comparing them to a college team, that's certainly not a fact; it's hyperbole, a wreckless overstatement.

 

[mayoclinic]

Atlanta had a nice little run last year, but they are nowhere near what the Ravens have been building over the last few years. Our QB was just the cherry on top, while their QB was one of the first pieces in the puzzle to building a championship team.

What "over the last few years"? Sounds like you're conveniently overlooking 6-10 seasons in 2005 and 2007. Baltimore has not exactly been a consistent winner over the past 4 years, alternating good years and bad.

Scheme is important only up to a point, you need good players to win games.

We have MANY more of those than Atlanta right now, if anyone wants me to go down the list I will be more than happy to.

I don't see more talent on offense. I'll take Matt Ryan over Flacco at this stage, Turner over McGahee, White over Mason (at this point in their careers), Jenkins at least equal with Clayton, and Gonzalez over Heap. Baker and Gaither are a wash at LT. Oher looks good so far, but is only a rookie. Birk is strong.

On defense the Ravens clearly have more talent. No doubt about that.

The game is won in the trenches, and Atlanta is deficient there on both sides of the ball especially with the loss of Jerry at DT. Our offensive and defensive lines make theirs look like a college team. That is a fact.

Hyperbole like that won't get you very far on this board. You guys have a good team, no doubt about it. Dissing other solid teams only makes you look foolish. Your DL is clearly superior to Atlanta's. Your OL may be better, but not by much. Comparing them to a "college team" is ridiculous. They're a solid NFL unit and were very successful last year, and looked excellent in their first 2 games this season.

Cleveland and KC are much closer to college teams than Atlanta, if you want a point of reference.

 

[Baltimorefan06]

By 'fact', would that be the same as your 'proof' in threads you started here two years ago that the Pats beat Panthers in the Super Bowl because you were convinced they had taped Carolina's practices, and beat the Eagles in the Super Bowl only because they broke down defensive signals from film during halftime?


Are the Ravens' lines better than the Falcons? Yes, most likely. But that's an opinion, not a fact. Atlanta was a playoff team last year that ranked 6th in total yards and 2nd in rushing yards. Comparing them to a college team, that's certainly not a fact; it's hyperbole, a wreckless overstatement.

+1

The type of post you were referring to is the result of only watching one team, which is fine, but don't then try to make statements about how good your team is in relative terms.

 

[52decleetzu]

New England had more talent than the Giants in 2007. That didn't win the Super Bowl. Buffalo had more talent than the Giants on the day Scott Norwood became a human punchline. That didn't win the Super Bowl.

Pittsburgh has lost to Chicago and the Bengals.
New Orleans crushed the Eagles
Detroit beat Washington
The Jets beat the Patriots

It's not just talent. Timing matters (injuries, bye weeks, etc...), and styles matter as well.

So you are saying that an inferior team across the board but who has a great "scheme" or "style" would be a tougher matchup than a team with much more talent? And that is of course assuming that the scheme or style of the Ravens is less than that of the Patriots/ Falcons.

It is called any given Sunday in those games you listed, it had nothing to do with style or scheme. If those teams played 10 times the team with the better players would win the majority. You can't draw conclusions like that from one game.

If the Patriots played the Giants 10 times in 2007 they would have won 8 of them, but it just so happened that the Super Bowl was one of those days where the lesser team won. It happens.....but not often.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

So you are saying that an inferior team across the board but who has a great "scheme" or "style" would be a tougher matchup than a team with much more talent? And that is of course assuming that the scheme or style of the Ravens is less than that of the Patriots/ Falcons.

It is called any given Sunday in those games you listed, it had nothing to do with style or scheme. If those teams played 10 times the team with the better players would win the majority. You can't draw conclusions like that from one game.

If the Patriots played the Giants 10 times in 2007 they would have won 8 of them, but it just so happened that the Super Bowl was one of those days where the lesser team won. It happens.....but not often.

Dude

Don't get so defensive. The point here is that Atlanta is a quality team and a three score victory with 2:1 TOP/yardage is nothing to sneeze at. They are not a "college team", they are a quality, playoff caliber team.

At week 4, "any given Sunday" has more meaning than week 5- SB and only marginally less than weeks 1-3.

I doubt anyone here would not place Baltimore in the upper echelon/elite category. Still, with so many variables, trying to gauge where teams stand before a week 4 contest means everyone has to separate what they consider wheat from chaffe.

 

[mayoclinic]

The Ravens rushing attack has looked good so far this season, but the three teams they have played so far rank 19th (KC), 26th (SD) and 30th (Cleveland) against the run. San Diego without Jammal Williams is ineffective at stopping the run, and gave up 149 yards rushing to Miami the week after giving up 130 against the Ravens. Cumulatively the Ravens 3 opponents to date have given up an average of 148.6 YPG rushing. Baltimore coincidentally averages 156.7 YPG, just slightly above the average YPG given up by the 3 teams they have faced. In contrast, the Pats currently rank 10th in the NFL in rushing defense, giving up just 88.3 YPG, and have held all 3 of their opponents to well under their average YPG rushing.

It remains to be seen if the Pats' defense will be effective at stopping the run if Wilfork is out. That will be one of the keys to the game. I am guessing that taking away the run will be the cornerstone of BB's defensive gameplan.

 

[H8R]

The problem with your thesis is that the Ravens are not a notch above the Falcons.

The Bills/Jets/Falcons all score 17 or less with around 250 yards offense. By NFL standards, that's hardly "moving the ball". The Bills were also mightily helped with two bogus roughing the passer calls.

An example of a defense getting run over was week two in San Diego.

That was an example of a defense bending but not breaking, unlike your loss to the Jets, Remember a three point win is still better then a 3 point loss. We won that game, on the road in 100 degree heat as their home opener. Lets also remember that the Chargers area FAR and AWAY better offense then the Bills, Jets or Falcons ( thought the Falcons are much closer). If you don't think the Ravens are better then the Falcons, I must say thats a little laughable.

The Pats look better on paper, but that's why they play the game. This game will probably go overtime--the teams have been mirror images of each other this year both offensively and defensively. Home field advantage is not an issue in this game because Pats fans are generally on the quieter side.

The Ravens defense isn't the unit it once was, but they cannot be ignored and experience is on their side. The Pats defensively aren't intimidating as a unit, but they have gotten the job done against 3 pretty good opponents. Pats can stop the run well(88yds per gm given up), the Ravens are impenetrable against the run(51 yds per gm given up). I think the Ravens will make the mistake of not committing to the run against the Pats and become a bit pass happy. As usual, the Pats will throw 40 plus times knowing the Ravens are giving up a miniscule 3 yds per rush---this game will become all about the quarterback play. The Ravens defense looks a bit softer against the pass than before---I have no doubt the Pats will move the chains against the Ravens D. To compare the Ravens D with the Jets D is a bit foolish, because the Jets are spectacular against the pass and are close to tops in the NFL statistically in that category. The Jets have a guy to shutdown Moss, which the Ravens clearly don't have. But will the Pats make the most out of their red zone opportunities? Hard to say yes to that. The Ravens pass defense has been surprisingly suspect this year. They are giving up 7.7 yds per pass, which is tied with the Pats, so to think this team will shut down Brady and co is wishful thinking. But the Pats won't stop Flacco either, who has been lights out this year. What I think the Ravens will lack this year and in this game is red zone efficiency--they will chew up lots of yards, but when space is limited inside the red zone area, they simply don't have the receiving core to be elite. I could be wrong, but that's my hunch. The Pats have the red zone personnel to be successful, but they've been HORRIBLE this year so far--that's why this game is going to be extremely close.

So all in all, your gonna have a game with both qbs having lots of time to throw, lots of underneath completions, little running games on both sides, and no turnovers because these aren't ball-hawking defenses. This has the potential of being a shootout game in the 30s depending on weather. But I think both teams are gonna be inefficient with red zone opportunities. So the first OT game of the year for the Pats goes to the home team:


Pats 23
Ravens 20

OT

At this time the Ravens are much better in red zone efficiency then the Pats.
In the words of Mike Ditka "Come on ma'an"!

 

[Deus Irae]

So you are saying that an inferior team across the board but who has a great "scheme" or "style" would be a tougher matchup than a team with much more talent? And that is of course assuming that the scheme or style of the Ravens is less than that of the Patriots/ Falcons.

Yes, sometimes an inferior team playing a specific scheme can be more problematic than a more talented team in a different scheme.

It is called any given Sunday in those games you listed, it had nothing to do with style or scheme. If those teams played 10 times the team with the better players would win the majority. You can't draw conclusions like that from one game.

The defensive game plan for that Giants win over the Bills ended up in the Hall of Fame. I'm sorry, but you just don't know what you're talking about on this issue. Maybe if you used "game plan" instead of "scheme" it would be helpful to you. Hell, week 1 was a scheme victory for New England, too, since they knew that the Bills would be in the Cover 2 at the end of the game, and knew exactly where the throws were going to need to be made.

If the Patriots played the Giants 10 times in 2007 they would have won 8 of them, but it just so happened that the Super Bowl was one of those days where the lesser team won. It happens.....but not often.

Yes, the lesser team won, and it was because of scheme. On a day where Brady wasn't 100% due to a leg injury, the tight end position had health/depth problems, and when the Patriots lost a starting interior lineman early, New England was facing a team that could give excellent pressure all along the defensive line. Just weeks before, the Patriots had dropped more than 30 points on that defense. This time around, with the new circumstances in play, the scheme of the Giants (go listen to the post-game breakdowns and conversations about what the Giants were doing along the D-line) enabled New York to keep it close and pull out the win.

 

[JSn]

The Patriots D is probably the most mysterious entity going into this weekend.

If it's anything like the past 3 games, not only will they show another step of improvement, but...

1) They will take the TE out of the game.

2) They will limit what is presumed to be a deadly running game to a substandard performance.

3) The CB's will make it very tough for Flacco to find a receiver on his first read with what has been top-notch coverage. Revis ain't the only guy in the AFCE with an Island.

4) They will play their assignments carefully and chase Flacco around the back-field later in the game.

I'm not here to guarantee a victory, but I can tell you this: the names and numbers you don't recognize before the game could very well be the ones that haunt you afterward.

 

[mayoclinic]

The Patriots D is probably the most mysterious entity going into this weekend.

If it's anything like the past 3 games, not only will they show another step of improvement, but...

1) They will take the TE out of the game.

2) They will limit what is presumed to be a deadly running game to a substandard performance.

3) The CB's will make it very tough for Flacco to find a receiver on his first read with what has been top-notch coverage. Revis ain't the only guy in the AFCE with an Island.

4) They will play their assignments carefully and chase Flacco around the back-field later in the game.

I'm not here to guarantee a victory, but I can tell you this: the names and numbers you don't recognize before the game could very well be the ones that haunt you afterward.

Very good post. I'm fairly confident that 1, 3, and 4 will happen. I'm not as confident about #2 if Wilfork is out or subpar, though I expect making that prediction come true is a big part of BB's gameplan.

 

[H8R]

I understand Ravens Fans are not going to convince Patriot fans a loss is coming and thats not my goal. The goal is to put the truth out and the truth is these teams are a pretty even match with Brady at 100 percent. I don't really think your defense can stop our run game ( I say we bust atleast a 135) and I don't think your LB's can pick on Heap and I think your best corner can still get worked on by "Old man" Mason. I do think Moss is better then what any of our corners can cover and I do think Tom Brady will have a 250-300 yard passing day, but I feel Joe could do the same thing. Last but not least I think you guys have no idea what your in for. This is not a finesse team with an aerial attack or strong running game. It's a smash you in the face with a claw hammer run game/defense, and a silent Sniper from a Div IAA that may hush the critics. Don't sleep on the Ravens or you might not wake up.

:lol:

 

[Deus Irae]

I understand Ravens Fans are not going to convince Patriot fans a loss is coming and thats not my goal. The goal is to put the truth out and the truth is these teams are a pretty even match with Brady at 100 percent. I don't really think your defense can stop our run game ( I say we bust atleast a 135) and I don't think your LB's can pick on Heap and I think your best corner can still get worked on by "Old man" Mason. I do think Moss is better then what any of our corners can cover and I do think Tom Brady will have a 250-300 yard passing day, but I feel Joe could do the same thing. Last but not least I think you guys have no idea what your in for. This is not a finesse team with an aerial attack or strong running game. It's a smash you in the face with a claw hammer run game/defense, and a silent Sniper from a Div IAA that may hush the critics. Don't sleep on the Ravens or you might not wake up.

:lol:

Now you're confusing your opinion with "truth". They aren't necessarily the same thing.

 

[H8R]

Now you're confusing your opinion with "truth". They aren't necessarily the same thing.

You're right, It's optimism at this point but it will be proven either false or true on Sunday.

 

[mayoclinic]

I understand Ravens Fans are not going to convince Patriot fans a loss is coming and thats not my goal. The goal is to put the truth out and the truth is these teams are a pretty even match with Brady at 100 percent. I don't really think your defense can stop our run game ( I say we bust atleast a 135) and I don't think your LB's can pick on Heap and I think your best corner can still get worked on by "Old man" Mason. I do think Moss is better then what any of our corners can cover and I do think Tom Brady will have a 250-300 yard passing day, but I feel Joe could do the same thing. Last but not least I think you guys have no idea what your in for. This is not a finesse team with an aerial attack or strong running game. It's a smash you in the face with a claw hammer run game/defense, and a silent Sniper from a Div IAA that may hush the critics. Don't sleep on the Ravens or you might not wake up.

:lol:

I don't know who will win the game. I'm picking the Pats, but there's a reason they play the game. I've said several times before in this thread that either team could win, that this could possibly be an AFCCG preview, etc. Others have said similar things. Who is taking the Ravens lightly? I don't think anyone is "sleeping" on the Ravens. And no one has ever called them a "finesse team". I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve - there's plenty of respect for the Ravens, even if we predict a victory.

That said, it's possible for one good team to dominate another. The Colts dominated the Ravens 31-3 last year, for example. I'm not expecting a one-sided game, but it's quite possible that either team could take the other out of it's game and make the score lopsided.

My personal guess: TB throws for around 300 yards with 3 TDs, the Pats rush for about 80 very tough yards, and the Pats put up 24 hard fought points. The Pats defense keeps the Baltimore running game under control to under 100 yards and keeps Derrick Mason and Todd Heap under control. Flacco passes for around 200-250 yards but forces a couple of INTs trying to make things happen that aren't there. Pats win 24-17 or so.

Just a guess. Exactly the opposite could happen, but I personally don't think so.

 

[JSn]

ok...

I understand Ravens Fans are not going to convince Patriot fans a loss is coming and thats not my goal. The goal is to put the truth out and the truth is these teams are a pretty even match with Brady at 100 percent.

false, because what you are saying is that Flacco = Brady. I like the kid, but let's be real.

I don't really think your defense can stop our run game ( I say we bust atleast a 135)

So you believe your running game is that much superior to the prior three the Pats have faced?

and I don't think your LB's can pick on Heap

true! That's cuz BMx2 is going to be ruining Heap's day and he's a safety. They will shut Heap down and it won't be near as tough as shutting down Gonzalez. Are you aware of his impact in the Ravens game?

and I think your best corner can still get worked on by "Old man" Mason.

Who would you say is our best corner?

I do think Moss is better then what any of our corners can cover and I do think Tom Brady will have a 250-300 yard passing day, but I feel Joe could do the same thing. Last but not least I think you guys have no idea what your in for. This is not a finesse team with an aerial attack or strong running game. It's a smash you in the face with a claw hammer run game/defense, and a silent Sniper from a Div IAA that may hush the critics. Don't sleep on the Ravens or you might not wake up.

So you have predicted the Ravens to put up 385 to 435 yards on a defense that hasn't allowed anywhere close to that so far?

I'd call that a bold prediction.

 

[H8R]

ok...


false, because what you are saying is that Flacco = Brady. I like the kid, but let's be real.


So you believe your running game is that much superior to the prior three the Pats have faced?


true! That's cuz BMx2 is going to be ruining Heap's day and he's a safety. They will shut Heap down and it won't be near as tough as shutting down Gonzalez. Are you aware of his impact in the Ravens game?


Who would you say is our best corner?



So you have predicted the Ravens to put up 385 to 435 yards on a defense that hasn't allowed anywhere close to that so far?

I'd call that a bold prediction.

1. I never said Flacoo was better then Brady, I said the teams are equal with a Healthy Tom Brady. Brady is not your only player....

2. Yes, our running game (3 backs) is better then what you have faced.

3. I could care less, Cam will have a solid game plan for the offense. Heap may even be used as decoy, the thing is we set him out wide a bit, that's not a safety that would cover him, otherwise things would be open deep.

4. Leigh Bodden, I went to school and played with him at North Western

5. Probably more like 330-390, I may have been a bit high

 

[52decleetzu]

One thing is clear, a lot of you guy are seriously underrating our running attack and offensive line.

It is not just the backs ( all 3 of them) but the Oline as well who I would put up there with anyone in the league right now. They are that good. We actually have one of the best graded out right guards from 2007 Marshall Yanda as our 6th guy because another guy who came in for him when he got injured is playing so well and they cant justify sitting him. It is like an embarrassment of riches up front from the left tackle to the right.

You guys have no idea how strong we are there, and to think you are going to shut down our running attack is just laughable with or without Wilfork.

There is no more stacking the box and cheating a safety down near the line because if you do that Flacco will pick you apart. Again, it all goes back to the balance we have on offense now with a QB. I really hope the Pats underestimate that facet of our game like you guys are.

We mauled people last year with a backup at RG and without a stud at RT like we have now, and no Ray Rice for the better part of the year. Now we have an absolute beast in Oher on the right side and ALL of our backs healthy and fresh. All three guys do different things and will keep the defense off balance.

 

[Deus Irae]

One thing is clear, a lot of you guy are seriously underrating our running attack and offensive line.

It is not just the backs ( all 3 of them) but the Oline as well who I would put up there with anyone in the league right now. They are that good. We actually have one of the best graded out right guards from 2007 Marshall Yanda as our 6th guy because another guy who came in for him when he got injured is playing so well and they cant justify sitting him. It is like an embarrassment of riches up front from the left tackle to the right.

You guys have no idea how strong we are there, and to think you are going to shut down our running attack is just laughable with or without Wilfork.

There is no more stacking the box and cheating a safety down near the line because if you do that Flacco will pick you apart. Again, it all goes back to the balance we have on offense now with a QB. I really hope the Pats underestimate that facet of our game like you guys are.

We mauled people last year with a backup at RG and without a stud at RT like we have now, and no Ray Rice for the better part of the year. Now we have an absolute beast in Oher on the right side and ALL of our backs healthy and fresh. All three guys do different things and will keep the defense off balance.

Thanks for the comedy.

 

[Baltimorefan06]

I understand Ravens Fans are not going to convince Patriot fans a loss is coming and thats not my goal. The goal is to put the truth out and the truth is these teams are a pretty even match with Brady at 100 percent. I don't really think your defense can stop our run game ( I say we bust atleast a 135) and I don't think your LB's can pick on Heap and I think your best corner can still get worked on by "Old man" Mason. I do think Moss is better then what any of our corners can cover and I do think Tom Brady will have a 250-300 yard passing day, but I feel Joe could do the same thing. Last but not least I think you guys have no idea what your in for. This is not a finesse team with an aerial attack or strong running game. It's a smash you in the face with a claw hammer run game/defense, and a silent Sniper from a Div IAA that may hush the critics. Don't sleep on the Ravens or you might not wake up.

:lol:

So basically the Ravens are only weak at CB, and absolutely superb at every other position.