Ravens QBs & Mobility in General

[Pat the Pats Fan]

except for a miracle this weekend, ratbirds won’t make the playoffs this year. That means they are 1-4 in the playoffs in Lamar’s 4 years. His current cap is about $3mm and they have $22mm available for next year. How can they improve all around him, and sign him?

 

[Pape]

The Ravens will resign Lamar Jackson. Tyler Huntley is fools gold, much like every back up qb who has "looked good" without actually looking good. Lamar Jackson is a game changing quarterback who makes the Ravens better. Tyler Huntley does not.

The problem with quarterbacks like Lamar Jackson is that the dynamic element of their games can be derailed by injury. If he loses a few steps each season in terms of speed he becomes less dangerous, and comes back to the mean. Jackson is a durable guy who has mostly avoided the injury bug. I do wonder what long term effects, if any, will come from the current ankle injury.

 

[Pape]

Is he really, though? That sets up an interesting question.


Brady
Mahomes
Rodgers
Burrow ?
Watson?
Allen ?
Herbert
Carr
Prescott ?
Cousins
Ryan
Murray
Wilson
Stafford


Leaving Jackson out of it, and leaving out all the rookies in order to minimize the projection arguments, the above are the best in the NFL right now, in no particular order. How many of that 14 are worse than Jackson, as a QB?

most of the ? marked players are probably better... the ones struck thru, right now aren't better than Jackson...

 

[Bill Lee]

The entire NFL universe seems to be in love with all the mobile QBs. I don't disagree that having a mobile QB is a great weapon but if that QB cannot develop into a pocket passer there's a ceiling to how good they can be and there's a time clock on their career. I'm not talking about Aaron Rodgers or Steve Young type. They were both superior passers. I'm not even talking about an Alex Smith who wasn't nearly as good as those two but developed and could run in the right circumstance.

To different degrees Michael Vick, Ben Rothleisberger and especially Cam Newton paid the price as time went on with the beating they took. Yes Ben played into his late 30's but he hasn't been the same player in a long time, he did become a pocket passer and you can see the physical decay which is going to affect him down the road. I know people will point out Russell Wilson but he's a moderately effective pocker passer and he has an uncanny ability for not getting lit up when he scrambles. Maybe this season is an anomoly but he's been in a mini decline for a few years. For all his trade demands I'd trade him. I think the wheels are coming off.

In today's game guys like Mahomes, Allen, Herbert and Burrow can run which bails their teams out. When Buffalo is calling QB draws against inferior teams in the first quarter half of me laughs as a Pats fan and the other head shakes my head. They're taking time off of the career of their franchise player. I have no problem with a designed scramble in a key spot but I'd keep it to that. Burrow although nowhere as mobile as the others will take off in key spots. I think Mahomes has taken it back a notch and only does it in spots where he knows he won't take the hits. LAC manages Herbert fairly effectively in this regard.

So then we have Jackson vs Huntley. Jackson is an athletic freak. He's also going to want Josh Allen or Dak Prescott money coming up soon. Would you pay it? I wouldn't. Huntley already looks better in the pocket and while not the freak Jackson is he is mobile. Jackson at 30+ or Huntley at 2M? I'd trade Jackson while he value is still somewhat high for as much draft capital as I can, take the difference in salary and load up everywhere else and I think you come out ahead.

Do I think the Ravens will do this? Not a chance. Jackson sells tickets and merchandise. I think the Ravens fans would lose their minds, yes we can debate their existence, if they traded Jackson.

You mention how running QBs run down over the length of their career, you might also want to mention injuries. QBs in the pocket can't be hit, once they are runners they can unless they slide. As we saw in the Bills game, even being out of bounds doesn't necessarily protect the QB. Plays like the Jerry Hughes play can take out a QB for a season. Dak Prescott was doing a simple running play when he injured his leg and was out most of last season.

 

[Ring 6]

My point was not keeping Huntley over Jackson, I would not do that , my point was about the ravens still almost beat good teams with their backup and it was certainly not the fault of the backup qb they lost this games. He wasn't perfect but he was solid for a backup

Well my comment was in response to a post implying he should replace jackson
Almost beat good teams so it’s not his fault doesn’t reach that bar.

 

[Ring 6]

most of the ? marked players are probably better... the ones struck thru, right now aren't better than Jackson...

Agree with very few of those

 

[Ring 6]

if some people say Jones ceiling is Ryan/Cousins than Mayfield is below that. Cousins actually produces numbers which many don't have on their radar.

Kirk Cousins Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Kirk Cousins. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Jones. Ring Cousins would be a disaster. Cousins does not win. Prefect example of a guy who builds up stats that don’t contribute to winning. Cumulative numbers without context over a 16 game season are useless in determining whether you can win with the guy.
It’s Bledsoe minus the season the defense carried him to a Sb and he threw a bunch of picks.

 

[Ring 6]

He’s Kirk Cousins… maybe not even.

Too soon to condemn Mayfield. But if you had to guess today it doesn’t look good.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I don't dislike Jackson. I wish he played for a different franchise because I do hate the Ravens.

I don't hate any team but the Colts they're #1 for me. I'd hate to see him behind that OL with Taylor in a dome half the year.

Saints are an interesting one too. Same deal + Kamara & Thomas.

Baltimore was set up big time this year but it fell apart early. Dobbins is the perfect complement RB to Jackson but that ACL killed to their offense.

I wouldn't pay Baker.

Cleveland is in a pickle for sure. Hungry fan base that had a little success after decades of putrid play. They have a big decision to make. I was a big Baker fan coming out. I loved him but he's Jared Goff and just hasn't improved. Very up & down.

Lamar is a top 5-10 quarterback right now when healthy. However if he has to stay in the pocket he's not. Most of his completion are some type of rolout or RPO.

You're wrong here man. Balt isn't even top 5 in "pulls" or "keeps"on RPO's. To get most of your comp from RPO would mean you'd be running that a crazy amount of the time. Just doesn't make sense with respect. Also he has 80+ passing TD's - a ton came from inside the pocket. Sorry but you're off here.

Once those physical skills decline and teams don't have to defend his running abilities as much where does that leave him if he doesn't improve as a pocket passer? Can he stay healthy?

I mean he's been very durable until a few games ago and his injury had nothing to do with him running the ball as a "runner" Almost every one misses time at some point in the league. Until it's a real problem it's not a top concern for me. Plus I don't think most realize how banged up and depleted that team is rn. I wouldn't risk it personally. They're a mash unit.

All the mediots keeps saying stop trying to turn him into a pocket passer. This is dead wrong. They should do everything they can to turn him into a pocket passer and use him as a runner when you need it most to keep tread on the tires.

He's always been pocket passer that can run. College + Pros (basically 6.5 years) he's passed for 150+ TD's. It's more than clear he's a pocket passer. The narrative that he takes off immediately or runs after his first read or w/e is so false and wrong it's not funny.

BTW I wouldn't dismiss Huntley. He only has a few starts and has a higher complettion percentage throwing to the same cast Jackson has been. Mark Andrews is no slouch. He might be the best TE in the game right now.

I love Andrews but he's repeatedly come up short in big moments in the playoffs. People love to point to Jackson in the playoffs and sure, he's the QB. He needs to play better but his team and coaches have **** the bed the last few years.

Not the best TE in the league but top 5-6 for sure. Maybe top 3-4 specifically talking about passing. I've always been a fan but he definitely needs to play better in big games imo.

If you have to pay Jackson 35M/year can you afford to go out and fill the skill positions with real skill? Vs pay Huntley 2M and give him all the weapons.

You have to draft well first off. Bateman is a good start imo. He was hurt early on which is a killer for most rookie WR's. Go after a Burks or Wilson if available this draft.

Other teams figure it out. The cap is real but certainly not a stop sign. I just look at what Diggs & co have done for Allen. What Hop has done for Arizona and Murray. They have to figure it out in that respect. Again other teams navigate the cap while paying QB's.

 

[Pape]

Agree with very few of those

Okay.....

Which ones?

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Until Jackson proves otherwise, he is an injury prone running QB who’s never lead his team very far in the playoffs.

Injury prone??

Fans get enamoured. Why ? Flashy plays that defy logic ? I mean, sure, that is exciting but I want my team to win. Not make a sports centre top 10.

You can and HAVE won with Mahomes. He is a guy I’d want. He is a much better passer than Jackson and even in the loss last year, he had a spectacular SB while playing hurt.

Mahomes has had the best start in history of football. He is a guy I'd want. Definitely.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Is he really, though? That sets up an interesting question.


Brady
Mahomes
Rodgers
Burrow
Watson
Allen
Herbert
Carr
Prescott
Cousins
Ryan
Murray
Wilson
Stafford


Leaving Jackson out of it, and leaving out all the rookies in order to minimize the projection arguments, the above are the best in the NFL right now, in no particular order. How many of that 14 are worse than Jackson, as a QB?

He's had a down year but Cousins, Ryan, Carr, Stafford and Murray could easily go imo. Especially if we're talking since he's been in the league.

Jackson has been as good if not better than Allen, Dak, Watson, Herbert and Burrow.

Looking at these teams I wonder what he would look like throwing to Cooper, Lamb and Gallup. Or Mike Williams, Allen & Ek. Chase, Boyd & Tee. I think it would be a different convo.

 

[Deus Irae]

Jackson has been as good if not better than Allen, Dak, Watson, Herbert and Burrow.

I could give you Watson (sat out the season), Herbert (close enough to call it a wash, since Herbert hasn't shown the ability to really be a big game winner, either) and Burrow (I could accept the consistency question because it's his first full season). I wouldn't agree with any of them, but I could buy the "close enough, because..." argument.

But, if you think that Jackson's been as good a QB as Allen and Prescott this year or last, we're watching very different football players.

 

[doesntmatter1]

I like mobile quarterbacks but throwing comes first. My problem with mobile quarterbacks are usually their frail build. Wilson is good at avoiding hits but he is also very thick. His body type is compact like Wes Welker's. Josh is thick enough to be a mobile qb imo but they overuse it.

I see Jackson being no different from RG3. The Ravens may feel pressured to pay him, but I don't think I could do it if I was the GM. Small qbs like Jackson, Mayfield, Jimmy G, and Kyler Murray are all risky investments.

Cam isn't accurate enough to be the ideal dual threat but the day is coming when we have a monster that is just a ridiculous task to tackle but can also throw like Rodgers. Just imagine if prime Gronk or Jonnu Smith could effectively play qb.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

So then we have Jackson vs Huntley. Jackson is an athletic freak. He's also going to want Josh Allen or Dak Prescott money coming up soon. Would you pay it? I wouldn't.

Heck no, but i do hope the Ravens pay him that much

 

[Ring 6]

Okay.....

Which ones?

Pasting for reference

Brady
Mahomes
Rodgers
Burrow ?
Watson?
Allen ?
Herbert
Carr
Prescott ?
Cousins
Ryan
Murray
Wilson
Stafford

Allen Prescott aren’t ?
Wilson, Murray better.
Herbert, Carr, Stafford, Ryan too close to call.

But ultimately “better now” is too vague any way so it’s just opinions among people likely using different criteria to begin with

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I could give you Watson (sat out the season), Herbert (close enough to call it a wash, since Herbert hasn't shown the ability to really be a big game winner, either) and Burrow (I could accept the consistency question because it's his first full season). I wouldn't agree with any of them, but I could buy the "close enough, because..." argument.

But, if you think that Jackson's been as good a QB as Allen and Prescott this year or last, we're watching very different football players.

No I'm speaking overall, mainly since Jackson and Allen have entered the league. All three are comparable looking at the collective imo. Both were better than Jackson this year and Allen last year as well. Jackson wasn't bad last year though.

 

[Pape]

Pasting for reference

Allen Prescott aren’t ?
Wilson, Murray better.
Herbert, Carr, Stafford, Ryan too close to call.

But ultimately “better now” is too vague any way so it’s just opinions among people likely using different criteria to begin with

Murray? whats he ever done? ridiculous to say hes better
Stafford? a pile of nothing stats... and 0-3 in the playoffs
Herbert? still waiting on that one signature win
Carr? lol, really? come on man... mr inconsistent is too close to call?
Matt Ryan is broken, has been for years now.

Allen & Prescott ... as I said, you could make an argument for or againt...

Wilson? Unless he rebounds, looks like he's fallen off a cliff... but all in all is a great qb, and i shouldn't have discounted him.

 

[Ring 6]

Murray? whats he ever done? ridiculous to say hes better
Stafford? a pile of nothing stats... and 0-3 in the playoffs
Herbert? still waiting on that one signature win
Carr? lol, really? come on man... mr inconsistent is too close to call?
Matt Ryan is broken, has been for years now.

Allen & Prescott ... as I said, you could make an argument for or againt...

Wilson? Unless he rebounds, looks like he's fallen off a cliff... but all in all is a great qb, and i shouldn't have discounted him.

Too close to call because Jackson hasn’t done anything either.
carreer post season his team averages 13 of a
has yet to hit 21 in a game. His qb rating is 68.3, he has 3 td and 5 picks and has thrown for less than 200 years 75% of the time.
Murray went to a crap team with a bad coach and almost single handedly has consistently improved them. They were the best team in the NFL this year until he got injured.
Ryan at least took a team to a SB.
Stafford and carr put up useless numbers, just like Jackson.
Herbert missing a signature win surely doesn’t put him behind Jackson.

 

[Pape]

Too close to call because Jackson hasn’t done anything either.
carreer post season his team averages 13 of a
has yet to hit 21 in a game. His qb rating is 68.3, he has 3 td and 5 picks and has thrown for less than 200 years 75% of the time.
Murray went to a crap team with a bad coach and almost single handedly has consistently improved them. They were the best team in the NFL this year until he got injured.
Ryan at least took a team to a SB.
Stafford and carr put up useless numbers, just like Jackson.
Herbert missing a signature win surely doesn’t put him behind Jackson.

nothing? i would say winning a playoff game, winning an mvp isnt "nothing"

murray didnt do anything, and wouldnt have done anything if the texans werent so stupid trading them hopkins for a bar of soap and an old playboy... look at his record after he went down...

ryan is toast...

Its funny i went to look up Carrs post season stats... there werent any...

so basically Lamar Jackson has more playoff wins in four seasons than Carr & Stafford have in a combined 21 years in the nfl