Player Signing RapSheet: Agholor to Pats

[Biffins]

Considering the fact Bill Belichick has been the head coach and general manager of this team over the last 20 years, and during that span of time the team has appeared in 9 Super Bowls and won 6 of them (not to mention many additional AFCCG appearances and division titles), it would seem to me utterly absurd to not support Bill Belichick.

Does that mean he is immune from criticism? No.
Does that mean he is perfect, or hasn't made mistakes? No.

Does harshly criticizing virtually every decision he has made seem entirely unreasonable and ridiculous? Yes, absolutely.

Where did I “harshly criticise” any move besides kicking out Brady. I said “not super impressed” about overpaying For Nelson. That’s about as gentle a criticism as possible. In other threads as I said I loved that we brought Trent Brown back. Frankly it’s you BB supporters who are thin-skinned, ready to take offense at the merest hint of lack of complete adulation and support.

 

[RIpats88]

Right. But we're not the Raiders or the Eagles, so there's no telling what we'll get.



It's technically not 700 yards, but I get it. It's close. That breakout season really helps. Otherwise, it's, like, 558. My biggest concern is the drops. Now we got people saying one season with the Raiders has magically fixed everything, but he still had his drops. If I'm reading the articles correctly, he went from 7 drops with the Eagles to about 5 with the Raiders.



Now, again, I'm rooting for him 'cause he's here now, but bracing for the drops. You don't understand. His stupid drops have literally won me money lol. That game he had against the Falcons back in 2019 was hilarious.

I think they saw how the raiders used him as a deep threat and are going to try and use him that way. We already have alot of slot and medium field guys.

You look at where cam newton had success in his career and it's been throwing to tight ends over the middle (greg olsen) and deep speedy guys like ted Ginn Jr, steve smith, curtis samuel. So are they building a similar offense?

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Nelson Aghofloor

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Honestly I like Nelson but NOT as a number 1. Really thought bb would bring someone else in. 15th overall, 2021 draft has some amazing WRs, but our chief WR scout Drafts worse than I play the lottery


Bourne is hot garbage

 

[PatsWSB47]

Except Cam was one of the better deep throwers in the league last year. Look it up.

This is exactly the kind of deal that should help Cam a lot if Agholor can continue his trajectory and avoid too many drops.

Exactly. I went back and forth all last year debating whether Cam or Tom had the better deep ball.

 

[catent]

Honestly I like Nelson but NOT as a number 1. Really thought bb would bring someone else in. 15th overall, 2021 draft has some amazing WRs, but our chief WR scout Drafts worse than I play the lottery


Bourne is hot garbage

Bourne is not hot garbage. Sneaky good pickup. Great feet, really good route runner, can beat man coverage and get off the press with his quickness.

Why do you think he’s bad?

 

[catent]

Exactly. I went back and forth all last year debating whether Cam or Tom had the better deep ball.

The OP never compared Cam to Brady, and he’s not wrong about the deep passing game not being all that bad.

Cam’s problem was his horribly sloppy footwork, which in turn lead to issues with timing and rhythm on shorter passes. Not to mention his low release which lead to many batted passes.

Medium/intermediate/deep passes weren’t that bad. The short passing game was absolutely putrid.

 

[resdubwhite]

This is what I don't get about the complaints. Outside of Moss when has this O ever had an WR1. I mean we've had a TE1 longer than we ever had a true WR1 (I know we have a different QB now), but I never expected BB to pay 15 per to anyone. Who knows what those guys were looking for to come to New England? I mean Samuel looks like the one that got away to me. sure, I can admit that. But was he looking for more to come here than BB wanted to pay or they just think NA does better here. But I'll take 800 yards and 7 TDs next year right now.
Overpay, yeah I think on balance it is. year two looks very pricey but maybe there's a renegotiation there. I'm not in love with this signing but I like the Bourne and 2 TE signings. Who knows what happens come the draft?
I just don't get the outrage here when we're still at phase one of team building exercise. I think we're far from the finished product.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

55% catch rate is terrible. Butterfingers. Really overpaid. I think Meyers and Bourne should start.

.

 

[catent]

55% catch rate is terrible. Butterfingers. Really overpaid. I think Meyers and Bourne should start.

.

Want to know who had a lower catch % than Agholor in 2020?

Darius Slayton
Jerry Jeudy
AJ Green
Zach Ertz
Rob Gronkowski
DJ Chark
Michael Gallup
Chase Claypool
Marquez Valdes-Scantling
Jalen Reagor
O’Dell Beckham Jr.
Julian Edelman

I could quote a laundry list of irrelevant, poor receivers who had a higher catch % than Agholor in 2020.

You can’t just quote a single statistic out of context without understanding how it came to be and what it means, and use said statistic to draw some big picture conclusion about the quality of a player.

2020 NFL Receiving | Pro-Football-Reference.com

2020 NFL Receiving

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[Ollie]

55% catch rate is terrible. Butterfingers. Really overpaid. I think Meyers and Bourne should start.

.

led the league with 11.1 yards per target and had 8 touchdowns.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Want to know who has a lower catch % than Agholor?

Darius Slayton
Jerry Jeudy
AJ Green
Zach Ertz
Rob Gronkowski
DJ Chark
Michael Gallup
Chase Claypool
Marquez Valdes-Scantling
Jalen Reagor
O’Dell Beckham Jr.
Julian Edelman

I could quote a laundry list of irrelevant, poor receivers who are higher than Agholor when it comes to catch %.

You can’t just quote a single statistic out of context without understanding how it came to be and what it means, and use said statistic to draw some big picture conclusion about the quality of a player.

Actually a lot of those names are overrated too so this info kind of backfired. It's not efficient throwing to guys who catch so few balls. In Agholar's case maybe it's because he's a deep ball guy. But you can't really rely on him as a 3down WR, he's not a chain mover. Would rather start Meyers and Bourne and have Agholar run an occasional deep route. A 55% catch rate is bad no matter how you spin it.

.

 

[catent]

Actually a lot of those names are overrated too so this info kind of backfired. It's not efficient throwing to guys who catch so few balls. In Agholar's case maybe it's because he's a deep ball guy. But you can't really rely on him as a 3down WR, he's not a chain mover. Would rather start Meyers and Bourne and have Agholar run an occasional deep route. A 55% catch rate is bad no matter how you spin it.

.

Julian Edelman isn’t a chain mover?

You need different types of receivers who can do different types of things.

This team needed an athletic perimeter wide receiver who can threaten the field deep, and that’s exactly what they got in Agholor.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Julian Edelman isn’t a chain mover?

You need different types of receivers who can do different types of things.

This team needed an athletic perimeter wide receiver who can threaten the field deep, and that’s exactly what they got in Agholor.

Edelman was awesome. But he had catch troubles early in his career and now in the Twilight of his career. A 55% catch rate is bad. Again with Agholar maybe it's because of deep balls.

 

[holyredeemer]

This is how I look at it. Makes me sleep well at night.

Agholor>Byrd
Myers=Myers
Bourne>Harry
Harry>Gunner or w/e we rolled out that week.
Jonnu>Asiasi+Keene
Henry>Asiasi+Keene

The Pats passing attack is immensely upgraded. Agholor can be moved around anywhere. Byrd for all his faults is a solid chain mover. These moves will make Myers even better. Add in the new TE’s, I mean.....who cares how much they paid for them? When the cap goes back up, these salaries are nothing! As far as having a traditional number one? Means nothing to me. What they need is a stable of receivers that can be versatile, beat press, learn the playbook, and stay off the injury report.

Now, about finding the future at QB....

 

[crawhammer]

The Patriots overpaid for Agholor at 2 years and $22,000,000. His yards per reception shot way up last season (18.7) in comparison to his career average (11.2). The Patriots aren't going to deploy Agholor like he was in Gruden's offense. Assuming his Y/R comes back down to his career average in the Patriots offense then he'll underperform relative to the contract.

LVR pass catchers were targeted 523 times in 2020. That number was 420 for NEP. Agholor accounted for 15.7% of the targets for LVR. If he receives the same percentage of targets in NE then he'll be targeted 66 times. His career catch percentage is 59.6% which would translate to 40 receptions for 448 yards for NE. Factoring in his career TD% of 9.6% he'll finish with (rounding up) 4 TD's.

Is 40 for 448 and 4 TD's worth $11,000,000?

I would have much preferred Emmanuel Sanders on a 1-year deal for nearly half as much at $6,000,000. Sanders is older but he's still better than Agholor and he'll also outperform Agholor's numbers next season. Even if Agholor maxes out on targets (which is extremely unlikely) then he'll finish with 58 receptions for 650 yards and (rounding up) 6 TD's. I'll delete my patsfans.com account if Newton and Agholor connect on 6 TD's next season.

Buffalo is heading into next season with Diggs, Sanders, Beasley and Davis. NE has Agholor, Bourne, Edelman and Harry. I'm easily taking Buffalo's receivers over NE's. Buffalo also has the MUCH better quarterback, which is the major difference between the two teams.

 

[rochrist]

The Patriots overpaid for Agholor at 2 years and $22,000,000. His yards per reception shot way up last season (18.7) in comparison to his career average (11.2). The Patriots aren't going to deploy Agholor like he was in Gruden's offense. Assuming his Y/R comes back down to his career average in the Patriots offense then he'll underperform relative to the contract.

LVR pass catchers were targeted 523 times in 2020. That number was 420 for NEP. Agholor accounted for 15.7% of the targets for LVR. If he receives the same percentage of targets in NE then he'll be targeted 66 times. His career catch percentage is 59.6% which would translate to 40 receptions for 448 yards for NE. Factoring in his career TD% of 9.6% he'll finish with (rounding up) 4 TD's.

Is 40 for 448 and 4 TD's worth $11,000,000?

I would have much preferred Emmanuel Sanders on a 1-year deal for nearly half as much at $6,000,000. Sanders is older but he's still better than Agholor and he'll also outperform Agholor's numbers next season. Even if Agholor maxes out on targets (which is extremely unlikely) then he'll finish with 58 receptions for 650 yards and (rounding up) 6 TD's. I'll delete my patsfans.com account if Newton and Agholor connect on 6 TD's next season.

Buffalo is heading into next season with Diggs, Sanders, Beasley and Davis. NE has Agholor, Bourne, Edelman and Harry. I'm easily taking Buffalo's receivers over NE's. Buffalo also has the MUCH better quarterback, which is the major difference between the two teams.

Why do you care about the money? It isn't yours and it won't be meaningful in future years as the cap skyrockets from it's artificially depressed level it's at now.

 

[RIpats88]

Patriots needed a burner deep and thats what Agholor was last year with the raiders.

I think the patriots are going back to the 2012 Gronk/Hernandez offense with Henry/Jonnu Smith. they are going to line those guys up everywhere. and if teams are going to have their safeties focused on stopping the tight ends in the middle that is going to leave alot of one-on-one deep shot opportunities.

 

[crawhammer]

Why do you care about the money? It isn't yours and it won't be meaningful in future years as the cap skyrockets from it's artificially depressed level it's at now.

I don't care about the money but the Krafts and Belichick do. When they evaluated the FA wide receiver market they were assigning a $ value to the available players. They brought in a lesser receiver (Agholor) at double the cost when there was a better receiver (Sanders) available. Maybe Sanders wanted no part of NE, I don't know, but if he had no problem playing with a total stiff like Newton then I would have much preferred the Patriots extended a contract offer to Sanders.

Comparing the two different receiver groups, Buffalo's is better, probably much better, and they definitely have the much better quarterback. That is going to be a huge advantage for Buffalo next season.

 

[crawhammer]

Patriots needed a burner deep and thats what Agholor was last year with the raiders.

They're not running Gruden's offense in New England. And since when did Agholor become a premiere burner in the NFL?

I think the patriots are going back to the 2012 Gronk/Hernandez offense with Henry/Jonnu Smith. they are going to line those guys up everywhere. and if teams are going to have their safeties focused on stopping the tight ends in the middle that is going to leave alot of one-on-one deep shot opportunities.

That comparison is ridiculous. At their best, Gronk and Hernandez were probably the best TE duo in the history of the NFL. They combined for 16 TD's in 2012 and that was with them only playing in 21 of a possible 32 games. Their most productive season was 2011 when they combined for 2237 yards and 24 TD's (with the greatest quarterback of all-time). Henry and Smith with Newton will not even match half of that production.