Quarterbacks Thankful That They Have A Job

[Ring 6]

I agree. It's a pretty complex issue. It won't be covered by any one person, or any one action.

You can still reject everything Kaepernick says. But there is a fundamental flaw that makes life much more difficult and dangerous for 18% of the US population.

I’m not sure why you are taking this approach.
Seeing through kaepernick says nothing about other legitimate issues that may exist.

 

[mgteich]

Okay, you can be critical of his intentions. It's the Internet, I forgot for a second we can be critical of anything.

Protesting is inherently wrong by black men. After all, **** happens. Law enforcement isn't right 100% per cent of the time. Apparently, it isn't reasonable to discuss any bias in law enforcement in treatment of blacks.

" No country run by man is ever going to get 100% approval and "right" on all the issues (especially when it comes to so-called social justice, where there are so often multiple sides to the same story and multiple "right" positions), so there's always going to be someone claiming oppression or some level of maltreatment."

BOTTOM LINE
As a country, we refuse to deal with the issue of treatment of blacks by law enforcement. Kap has every right to protest. For folks to listen, protestors often (reasonably) choose very public places. Would the same number listen if he made the same statements in an after the game interview (of course not).

And yes, the league can fine (through CBA rules) Kap and everyone else that violates the rules (as Kap did). What is not OK is for owners to have discussions about why none of them should hire Kap no matter what their needs for a #1 or #2 quarterback. I don't know that this is the case, but it seems likely. Also, If I were a fan of a team that needed a #1 or #2 quarterback, I would be pi$$ed at management for not taking a shot with Kap.

OBVIOUSLY, teams in need have taken shots on murderers, abusers of children, abuse of women and lots of other criminals and bad actors. To hear the holier than thou owners not want to hire Kap for the truly horrible crime of kneeling in protest in truly amazing.

 

[Ring 6]

Protesting is inherently wrong by black men. After all, **** happens. Law enforcement isn't right 100% per cent of the time. Apparently, it isn't reasonable to discuss any bias in law enforcement in treatment of blacks.

What does any of that have to do with kaepernick not being a good qb?

" No country run by man is ever going to get 100% approval and "right" on all the issues (especially when it comes to so-called social justice, where there are so often multiple sides to the same story and multiple "right" positions), so there's always going to be someone claiming oppression or some level of maltreatment."

BOTTOM LINE
As a country, we refuse to deal with the issue of treatment of blacks by law enforcement.

We do? There haven’t been investigations, trials, convictions, law changes (stop and frisk, profiling) publicity, and action such as equipping police officers with body cameras?
Did none of those things happen or is overrating Colin kaepernicks ability to play QB the only path to real justice?

Kap has every right to protest.

He does.
And everyone else has the right to find the means he attempts to protest to be stupid and offensive.

For folks to listen, protestors often (reasonably) choose very public places. Would the same number listen if he made the same statements in an after the game interview (of course not).

This is simply wrong. No one is listening, because he choose to offend people with his means of “protest” (and isn’t actual a protest though it’s a cry for attention) and he is not associated with any cause to address it improve he is associated with disrespecting the anthem.
Many players have actually done things to address a problem. They all have jobs.

And yes, the league can fine (through CBA rules) Kap and everyone else that violates the rules (as Kap did). What is not OK is for owners to have discussions about why none of them should hire Kap no matter what their needs for a #1 or #2 quarterback. I don't know that this is the case, but it seems likely.

Not likely at all. He sucks. Recognizing that in 32 different personnel departments isn’t collusion. Otherwise thousands of players who aren’t good enough to play in the nfl wee colluded against.

Also, If I were a fan of a team that needed a #1 or #2 quarterback, I would be pi$$ed at management for not taking a shot with Kap.

Please name all of these teams that you think kaepernick is a no brainer to,that are discriminating against him.

OBVIOUSLY, teams in need have taken shots on murderers,

Really? Please list all of the players that received contracts after committing murder.

abusers of children, abuse of women and lots of other criminals and bad actors.

Are you saying that players who commit crimes should be banned from the league?

To hear the holier than thou owners not want to hire Kap for the truly horrible crime of kneeling in protest in truly amazing.

They don’t want to hire him because
A) he sucks
B) while he sits on the bench he would become the center of attention and voice of the franchise and a huge distraction

When you tell me all those teams that should hurry to sign him also please explain how his crappy level of play also overcomes the distraction and circus he would bring along.

 

[mgteich]

I'll be more clear. I agree that if Kap were so bad a quarterback that he is a worse than all the #2 quarterbacks in the league, then of course he shouldn't be signed.

I'm fine with that discussion.

HOWEVER, I believe that many owners don't want Kap on their team even though they believe that he is a better QB than their backup QB. And yes, he might be better than one or two of the starting QB's in the league.

What does any of that have to do with kaepernick not being a good qb?


We do? There haven’t been investigations, trials, convictions, law changes (stop and frisk, profiling) publicity, and action such as equipping police officers with body cameras?
Did none of those things happen or is overrating Colin kaepernicks ability to play QB the only path to real justice?


He does.
And everyone else has the right to find the means he attempts to protest to be stupid and offensive.



This is simply wrong. No one is listening, because he choose to offend people with his means of “protest” (and isn’t actual a protest though it’s a cry for attention) and he is not associated with any cause to address it improve he is associated with disrespecting the anthem.
Many players have actually done things to address a problem. They all have jobs.


Not likely at all. He sucks. Recognizing that in 32 different personnel departments isn’t collusion. Otherwise thousands of players who aren’t good enough to play in the nfl wee colluded against.


Please name all of these teams that you think kaepernick is a no brainer to,that are discriminating against him.



Really? Please list all of the players that received contracts after committing murder.



Are you saying that players who commit crimes should be banned from the league?



They don’t want to hire him because
A) he sucks
B) while he sits on the bench he would become the center of attention and voice of the franchise and a huge distraction

When you tell me all those teams that should hurry to sign him also please explain how his crappy level of play also overcomes the distraction and circus he would bring along.

 

[slam]

I have asked the same question in different ways, and the Kaepernick champions have yet to come up with an answer that actually supports their position of some large number of teams who could have used Kaepernick, and there, therefore, being an obvious conspiracy (and I don't say that there's not one. I just say that one's not needed to end up with Kaepernick being unemployed in the NFL). So, you try it:

Given the situation of the league, and the teams, at the beginning of this season, now, and moving forward, where would Kaepernick make sense, and where would have have made sense earlier in the season?

1. For example: he makes absolutely no sense in New England, where Brady's the #1, Hoyer knows the system and is a quality backup, and Kaepernick's game is the opposite of the offensive system the Patriots play. And, obviously, he would have made no sense when JAG was in N.E., either.
   
2. Second example: he would have made sense in Buffalo for this season where, as a backup QB, he would have fit a little more of what Taylor does, and would have been an improvement on that disastrous backup situation. Important to note here, however, that Buffalo's system has changed with the new coaches, and that Taylor will almost certainly be gone next year (they don't really even run a Taylor friendly offense there now, nevermind moving forward), as the Bills will look to bring their system all the way into line with the new coaching philosophy, so Kaepernick would have been looking at a 1 year stint as a backup, and then being back on the street again.

So, I've evaluated a Zero percent scenario and a backup position possibility. Go down the list of the 29 other teams (SF was obviously not an option) and find the huge number of teams that had/have/will have a Kaepernick friendly situation, as either a starter or backup.

I'll give it a shot.

Imagining a world where Colin Kaepernick is the same bad QB he's been the past three seasons but is as politically inoffensive or unknown as, say, Tyrod Taylor, here are the places he would have been at least looked at this season.

1. Jacksonville. The QB is a turd and the game plan is to make the QB throw as little as possible. The backup is Chad Henne, who I wasn't sure was still alive. Compete for starting job.
2. Houston. After Watson goes down, BOB is stuck with Tom Savage again. Backup is TJ Yates. Compete for starting job.
3. Denver. QB position is complete disaster and has brought down the once great defense. Will be on QB #3 with Lynch starting. Compete for starting job.
4. Green Bay. With Rodgers down the backup is completely ineffective. Bad line play now apparent. A QB whose main skill is running for his life may be an improvement. Compete for starting job.
5. Indianapolis. Unless they like Brissette for a starting job going forward, or think they can trade him for an asset, they could have brought in Kaep to placeholder the team and kept Dorsett or traded him for another asset. In any case better than Scott Tolzien. Compete for starting job.
6. Arizona. When Palmer went down, they gave two starts to Drew Stanton who put up a 48.4% completion percentage. Stanton now hurt, and job's in old nemesis Blaine Gabbert's hands. Compete for starting job.
7. Miami. Perhaps Kaepernick would have been better than luring Jay Cutler from broadcast booth? Compete for starting job.
8. Baltimore. In the preseason Flacco's back was hurting and Mallett put up a what was described as a total meltdown in practice. QB position looked particularly bleak, they signed a 1-AA guy at one point. Compete for backup job.
9. Carolina. Could backup mobile starting QB. Current backup is 34 year old Derek Anderson w/ career 54% completion percentage and 60/60 TD/INT ratio. Compete for backup job.
10. Tennessee. Current backup Matt Cassel has been done for five years. Kaepernick would be an improvement. Mariota is also a mobile QB, so offense won't have to change. Compete for backup job.
11. Seattle. Was talking to him earlier this year. Could backup mobile starting QB. Current backup Austin Davis an unknown. Compete for backup job.

I won't count SF, NYJ, or CLE as their plans at least some of the time seemed to be to look forward to a 2018 high pick QB. But if their plans were to try hard to win in 2017, Kaep would be a better choice to be on roster than some of their currently rostered QBs.

Now, given that Kaepernick is a political lightning rod, I understand each team's decision to stay clear. Is he so much better than Matt Cassel or Derek Anderson that a team would endure a media firestorm? No. No collusion necessary (though for entertainment's sake, I hope Kaep's lawyers find irrefutable evidence of collusion handwritten by Goodell). But I believe a non-controversial version of CK would at least be invited to compete for a clipboard holding job. He maybe would've lost out to a Matt Cassel or Derek Anderson on football merit alone, but he would've gotten a chance to compete. His stats are almost identical to Tyrod Taylor's, and Taylor is a borderline starter in the NFL, albeit a beleaguered one.

I don't deny that the reasons he doesn't have a job are actions of his own doing, and he may be sabotaging any return by demanding too much money or acting immaturely. I'm just saying his football resume would usually dictate that he'd most likely become one of those backups that would hang around the league forever who you'd forget about completely, like Mark Sanchez, except for his political activism/rabble rousing/whatever you want to call it.

 

[Ring 6]

I'll be more clear. I agree that if Kap were so bad a quarterback that he is a worse than all the #2 quarterbacks in the league, then of course he shouldn't be signed.

Worse is very subjective.
He certainly isn’t definitely better than veteran number 2s or anywhere near the potential of young number 2s and is a terrible fit for almost any system.

We can agree I’m sure that if you run a pro style offense that requires reading a defense, going through progressions and making accurate throws he is terrible right?

So what team is going to sacrifice an effective passing game so they can have a running qb?

[quite]I'm fine with that discussion.

HOWEVER, I believe that many owners don't want Kap on their team even though they believe that he is a better QB than their backup QB. [/quote]
Based upon what? There is just no reason to belief there is a team that thinks he is good and virtually no reason to believe there is any team he plus the circus he brings with him is a better fit than the current backup.

It seems like you believe playing and playing terribly makes you better than not having plaued yet. Perhaps that is the source of your confusion on this.

And yes, he might be better than one or two of the starting QB's in the league.

No and it’s not really close. He would be easily the worst experienced QB. Playing an inexperienced qb is better than playing a certain failure, which is what he is

 

[Ring 6]

I'll give it a shot.

Imagining a world where Colin Kaepernick is the same bad QB he's been the past three seasons but is as politically inoffensive or unknown as, say, Tyrod Taylor, here are the places he would have been at least looked at this season.

1. Jacksonville. The QB is a turd and the game plan is to make the QB throw as little as possible. The backup is Chad Henne, who I wasn't sure was still alive. Compete for starting job.
2. Houston. After Watson goes down, BOB is stuck with Tom Savage again. Backup is TJ Yates. Compete for starting job.
3. Denver. QB position is complete disaster and has brought down the once great defense. Will be on QB #3 with Lynch starting. Compete for starting job.
4. Green Bay. With Rodgers down the backup is completely ineffective. Bad line play now apparent. A QB whose main skill is running for his life may be an improvement. Compete for starting job.
5. Indianapolis. Unless they like Brissette for a starting job going forward, or think they can trade him for an asset, they could have brought in Kaep to placeholder the team and kept Dorsett or traded him for another asset. In any case better than Scott Tolzien. Compete for starting job.
6. Arizona. When Palmer went down, they gave two starts to Drew Stanton who put up a 48.4% completion percentage. Stanton now hurt, and job's in old nemesis Blaine Gabbert's hands. Compete for starting job.
7. Miami. Perhaps Kaepernick would have been better than luring Jay Cutler from broadcast booth? Compete for starting job.
8. Baltimore. In the preseason Flacco's back was hurting and Mallett put up a what was described as a total meltdown in practice. QB position looked particularly bleak, they signed a 1-AA guy at one point. Compete for backup job.
9. Carolina. Could backup mobile starting QB. Current backup is 34 year old Derek Anderson w/ career 54% completion percentage and 60/60 TD/INT ratio. Compete for backup job.
10. Tennessee. Current backup Matt Cassel has been done for five years. Kaepernick would be an improvement. Mariota is also a mobile QB, so offense won't have to change. Compete for backup job.
11. Seattle. Was talking to him earlier this year. Could backup mobile starting QB. Current backup Austin Davis an unknown. Compete for backup job.

I won't count SF, NYJ, or CLE as their plans at least some of the time seemed to be to look forward to a 2018 high pick QB. But if their plans were to try hard to win in 2017, Kaep would be a better choice to be on roster than some of their currently rostered QBs.

Now, given that Kaepernick is a political lightning rod, I understand each team's decision to stay clear. Is he so much better than Matt Cassel or Derek Anderson that a team would endure a media firestorm? No. No collusion necessary (though for entertainment's sake, I hope Kaep's lawyers find irrefutable evidence of collusion handwritten by Goodell). But I believe a non-controversial version of CK would at least be invited to compete for a clipboard holding job. He maybe would've lost out to a Matt Cassel or Derek Anderson on football merit alone, but he would've gotten a chance to compete. His stats are almost identical to Tyrod Taylor's, and Taylor is a borderline starter in the NFL, albeit a beleaguered one.

I don't deny that the reasons he doesn't have a job are actions of his own doing, and he may be sabotaging any return by demanding too much money or acting immaturely. I'm just saying his football resume would usually dictate that he'd most likely become one of those backups that would hang around the league forever who you'd forget about completely, like Mark Sanchez, except for his political activism/rabble rousing/whatever you want to call it.

Players who have played, reached their peak and sucked struggle to find jobs in the nfl.
I don’t think any player you listed above is a worse choice that kaepernick. He is THAT bad.
And as you say the baggage makes the coin flip unnecessary.

By the way you can’t unclude SF bevause he would be on their roster if he didn’t opt out or Denver because they were trading for him but he wouldn’t take 7 mill a year. Those 2 decisions are part of the package too.

 

[PatsWSB47]

I think we're way over thinking this. Kapernick isnt playing because owners think the distraction and baggage he brings would be worse for their success than his abilities would be for it

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Protesting is inherently wrong by black men. After all, **** happens. Law enforcement isn't right 100% per cent of the time. Apparently, it isn't reasonable to discuss any bias in law enforcement in treatment of blacks.

There is the game of football and there are American social and political institutions. One is where GMs/HCs sign players to a team to play a game in order to get fans to favor/follow the team and pay (directly or indirectly) for the favoring/following of the team. The other is an often divisive and polarizing matter of National consciousness, social direction, and favor/disfavor of the current institution of America itself.

CK brought the second conspicuously into the first, on the field, multiple times. He also coupled that with drawing very significant attention to the second and himself off field.

I'm not making a judgment here on his motivations or his intelligence on the issue (that's a different discussion). But clearly his actions in the second have greatly affected his opportunities in the first. And if you, mgteich, were a GM and/or HC that signed CK (a QB with not very good stats his last 3 years) and disregarded its potential affect on the fanbase as well as the team itself? You have no business being in the business of GM/HC.

Both of your posts were not about football, they were about ideology. That's fine but your cloaking it as a football discussion. The football discussion side of it is over and has been for a while. Any sane GM/HC (even ones who believe in the ideology) would be crazy to sign CK (probably signing their own eventual firing). And at this point that is 100% on CK for not making it 110% crystal clear that team & football will be unequivocally the utmost important thing. And if CK instead wants his cause to be front and center then that is his choice -- a choice he will make not as an NFL football player.

 

[XLIX]

If all the people who were enraged by this Kaepernick episode spent half their anger on an issue like domestic violence or childhood bullying or police violence or a host of other issues, the country would be a lot better off than raging at a black man who gave up millions of dollars to try and help other black men. Again, you can disagree with the methodology or even the thought process, but you can't argue against the intention.

When he wears socks that portray cops as pigs, I sure as hell can argue against the intention.

 

[Ivan]

I'll be more clear. I agree that if Kap were so bad a quarterback that he is a worse than all the #2 quarterbacks in the league, then of course he shouldn't be signed.

I'm fine with that discussion.

HOWEVER, I believe that many owners don't want Kap on their team even though they believe that he is a better QB than their backup QB. And yes, he might be better than one or two of the starting QB's in the league.

While I agree with that completely I wouldn’t sign him because I don’t think he cares. And I wouldn’t have signed Jay Cutler for the same reason. You can’t have a QB who doesn’t give a sh.t..

 

[tasmlab]

I'm amazed that out of a population of 300 million plus that we can only muster like 15 guys who play QB well.

 

[Nehalem]

Players who have played, reached their peak and sucked struggle to find jobs in the nfl.
I don’t think any player you listed above is a worse choice that kaepernick. He is THAT bad.
And as you say the baggage makes the coin flip unnecessary.

By the way you can’t unclude SF bevause he would be on their roster if he didn’t opt out or Denver because they were trading for him but he wouldn’t take 7 mill a year. Those 2 decisions are part of the package too.

The other consideration is cost.

Kapernick at vet minimum is maybe worth it in certain situations(ie Seattle or Tennessee maybe as a mobile QB backup) But would Kapernick be willing to be a guaranteed backup for vet minimum?

 

[Wheelman]

I think it's 100% clear there's collusion to keep Kaepernick out of Pro Football. Kaepernick is better than a lot of these backups and even some of the starters.

That being said, the NYJFL* have the judges and such in their pockets that I see no way how Kaepernick will win.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

I’m not sure why you are taking this approach.
Seeing through kaepernick says nothing about other legitimate issues that may exist.

I don't particularly care much for Kaepernick. He got a raw deal in some ways, and got exactly what he deserved in others.

And I don't particularly care what you believe either. There's no way you or I can be 100% sure, so it seems silly to go on about it.

But it's important that you and every single American recognize the attached message to this. Whether it was accidental or intentional or whatever, it's important. That's all I'm trying to say here. I really don't care about what Kaepernick intended, or what you think he intended.

When he wears socks that portray cops as pigs, I sure as hell can argue against the intention.

Holy ****, you are the Queen of Sensitivity if that truly offended you.

The majority of police officers I've met are great. But there are definitely some bad apples. And sometimes they kill innocent people.

So stuff like this isn't a big deal apparently:

The video, obtained by WSB Channel 2 Action News in Atlanta, shows Lieutenant Abbott standing at the side of a car during a traffic stop last year. He tells the woman, a passenger, that she could use her cellphone.

“It’s in your lap right there,” he says. She replies that she does not want to move her hands, saying she has seen “way too many videos” about how the police behave at traffic stops.

“But you’re not black,” Lieutenant Abbott replies. “Remember, we only kill black people. Yeah. We only kill black people, right?”

But you're offended by pig socks.

Okay then. Carry on being offended.

 

[TBR]

You can still reject everything Kaepernick says. But there is a fundamental flaw that makes life much more difficult and dangerous for 18% of the US population.

They're their own worst enemy. This is statistically true on multiple levels.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

They're their own worst enemy. This is statistically true on multiple levels.

I don't think any one group is to blame, nor do I think any group is exempt from blame.

But I am curious about the statistically true bit on multiple levels. What exactly do you base this on? Not judging, I am still searching for the answers myself. Curious what you've read, as I haven't seen anything statistically definitive.

 

[Off The Grid]

Holy ****, you are the Queen of Sensitivity if that truly offended you.

But you're offended by pig socks.

What???

 

[Off The Grid]

Holy ****, you are the Queen of Sensitivity if that truly offended you.

The majority of police officers I've met are great. But there are definitely some bad apples. And sometimes they kill innocent people.

But you're offended by pig socks.

You've got a lot'f Soul, Brother Con...But your blithely dismissing those'f us who're offended that that ScumBag wore socks that insulted every Cop alive ~ men and women who go Into Harm's Way to defend our loved ones ~ disgraces you.

I beg'f you to reconsider that perspective.

 

[XLIX]

Holy ****, you are the Queen of Sensitivity if that truly offended you.

Calling people who put their lives on the line to protect and defend you and me pigs?

Yeah, that's offensive - and deliberately so. Anyone who doesn't recognize it as an offensive gesture is the Queen of Denial, your highness.