Poor drafting now biting the Patriots in the butt?

[Chris Stevenson]

In the end of the day Brady and Bill's coaching cover up a lot of the bad picks.

Right, but they also have far fewer whiffs than 99% of the NFL.

Look around the league.

NE is a bad 10-3 team, very likely ending up a bad 2 seed at 13-3 as defending SB champs.

That's really good after appearing in 3 straight SBs, winning 3/5.

Let's just hope McDaniels and Brady wake up and start using the good talent at RB, and some underused talent at WR before it's too late. They're not spitting the atom here and I am a little tired seeing other All Pro QBs have no issue breaking in new or rookie WRs. No otherHOF QB has these issues. Rodgers, Brees, Phillip Rivers, etc.....None of them.

 

[IllegalContact]

What on earth makes you think we have the best RB group (quality and depth) in the conference? I can come up with 5 AFC teams whose RBs are better off the top of my head without even really thinking about it, and I don't even hate our RBs like some here do.

we have won everything with lesser RB groups

 

[Chris Stevenson]

What on earth makes you think we have the best RB group (quality and depth) in the conference? I can come up with 5 AFC teams whose RBs are better off the top of my head without even really thinking about it, and I don't even hate our RBs like some here do.

Name them. It's not KC, it's certainly not any AFC playoff teams. Houston? lol

Bolden barely gets on the field and he beat us last year as a complimentary RB in Miami. Yet, every time Bolden gets looks, he makes positive plays.

James White is the best scatback in the conference. We can't even see a really good college RB in Harris.

Michel is a 1st rd pick who had a dynamite postseason. And, Rex Burkhead is a very solid two way RB, who also helped in the postseason a lot last year.

This isn't 2015 with Steven Jackson and rookie James White.

We throw 4x more than we run inside the 5 yard line. Why?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Name them. It's not KC, it's certainly not any AFC playoff teams. Houston? lol

Bolden barely gets on the field and he beat us last year as a complimentary RB in Miami. Yet, every time Bolden gets looks, he makes positive plays.

James White is the best scatback in the conference. We can't even see a really good college RB in Harris.

Michel is a 1st rd pick who had a dynamite postseason. And, Rex Burkhead is a very solid two way RB, who also helped in the postseason a lot last year.

Your examples reek of confirmation bias, most teams have their own Brandon Boldens and Rex Burkheads, there's a reason why we were able to get them for so little.

This isn't 2015 with Steven Jackson and rookie James White.

We throw 4x more than we run inside the 5 yard line. Why?

Chargers, Browns, Ravens, Bengals, Jets. If you think our RB depth chart stacks up favorably to any of theirs then I want some of what you're smoking.

Michel's dynamite postseason occurred in a running game that has little in common with what we've got now. He excelled as a power runner who thanks to Develin and Gronk--both of whom are no not here--could consistent get space to build up momentum, at which point he became really difficult to bring down and therefore was able to reliably keep the offense on schedule. There are lots of RBs who are far more effective with a FB than without, to the point that it's borderline pointless to compare their production with one to their production without. Leonard Fournette, for example, is very similar in that sense.

And I gotta say, I find it really weird that you've chalked up Michel's disappearance within the offense to Brady going rogue and deciding he doesn't want an effective running game or some other similarly dumb ****, rather than the very simple and obvious explanation I just gave.

We throw 4x more than we run inside the 5 yard line. Why?

Because when they've run inside the 5 it hasn't worked. What other reason are you even trying to insinuate?

 

[Chris Stevenson]

we have won everything with lesser RB groups

Exactly. Way lesser.

The only missing elements here are Develin, which admittedly is big (Roberts can blow holes, but you have to at least try) and Gronk at TE.

But, if you use 2 RBs more frequently, run and throw with them, the D has no idea if it's a pass or run.

There are ways to use such an obvious strength that you have at RB right now.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Chargers, Browns, Ravens, Bengals, Jets. If you think our RB depth chart stacks up favorably to any of theirs then I want some of what you're smoking.

Chargers?

Maybe I am missing who they have pass Ekeler?

Ravens? No. They have 2 backs. NE can literally roll 2 sets of backs to keep them fresh and Baltimore doesn't have a scatback as nasty as James White. Sorry.

Bengals? Maybe I'll find out this Sunday what you're smoking there. Jets? bawahah! Funny stuff.

Does that include bowling fake sick overrated and expensive Bell or no?

 

[mgteich]

Our draft was terrible because it was insufficient to provide enough talent for 2017 and 2018, and because having a 12-4 or 13-3 season in 2019 is simply terrible.
====
There are many that compare the drafting of the 32 NFL teams. Perhaps it might be instructive to look at some of those efforts.

I guess the folks who complained about our drafts are justified. This is part of the problem, but not all of our drafts were busts.

 

[203Pat]

Right, but they also have far fewer whiffs than 99% of the NFL.

Look around the league.

NE is a bad 10-3 team, very likely ending up a bad 2 seed at 13-3 as defending SB champs.

That's really good after appearing in 3 straight SBs, winning 3/5.

Let's just hope McDaniels and Brady wake up and start using the good talent at RB, and some underused talent at WR before it's too late. They're not spitting the atom here and I am a little tired seeing other All Pro QBs have no issue breaking in new or rookie WRs. No otherHOF QB has these issues. Rodgers, Brees, Phillip Rivers, etc.....None of them.

Not sure how they have fewer whiffs than 99% of the league. One first round pick last year, our first round pick this year, and our second and third round pick this year combined for 11 snaps on Sunday. I know it’s early for some of these guys but I bet 99% of teams in the league got more production than that from 2 first rounders, a second and a third in their last game.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Chargers?

Maybe I am missing who they have pass Ekeler?

Ever heard of a guy named Melvin Gordon? He's only got 6000 yards from scrimmage and 44 touchdowns over the last 5 years.

I mean, you've spent two posts harping on how great Damien Harris was in college, then proceeded to forget that one of the best college RBs of all time exists. Next time think for 15 seconds before you post.

Ravens? No. They have 2 backs. NE can literally roll 2 sets of backs to keep them fresh and Baltimore doesn't have a scatback as nasty as James White. Sorry.

Mark Ingram is better than any back on the Patriots roster, and is plenty capable as a receiving threat to the point that they don't use or need a scat back. Gus Edwards is better than Burkhead and Bolden.

Bengals? Maybe I'll find out this Sunday what you're smoking there. Jets? bawahah! Funny stuff.

Despite playing behind the worst offensive line in the league and being tee'd off on as the only consistent threat on his team's offense, Joe Mixon still has 589 yards and 6 TDs over the last 5 games. He's an absolutely elite talent, and our offense would be in a much better place if we had him over any of our RBs. Giovani Bernard is significantly better than Burkhead and Bolden.

Yeah, their offense as a whole sucks, but it's not on the RBs. It's on literally everyone else.

Does that include bowling fake sick overrated and expensive Bell or no?

Of course it does, and what does expensive have to do with anything? He's expensive because he's really good. And if guys like Bell who have produced 1000 yards this year in a bad offense are ****ty and overrated, then what does that say about our guys?

I also notice you didn't mention the Browns, does that mean you agree there and are ready to back off your weird assertion that we have the best RBs in the AFC?

I don't even think our RBs are bad, I think they're a generally serviceable and cost-effective group--neither especially good nor especially bad--that's trying to carve out yards in an offense that's lost Andrews, Gronk and Develin while dealing with major degradation in LT and RG performance due to injury. But if you can't acknowledge that they're not on the Austin Ekeler, Melvin Gordon, Joe Mixon or Le'Veon Bell level then your opinion on this topic is just too stupid to be worth entertaining. Adios.

 

[IllegalContact]

Exactly. Way lesser.

The only missing elements here are Develin, which admittedly is big (Roberts can blow holes, but you have to at least try) and Gronk at TE.

But, if you use 2 RBs more frequently, run and throw with them, the D has no idea if it's a pass or run.

There are ways to use such an obvious strength that you have at RB right now.

2015 all over again.......

 

[archstanton543]

We throw 4x more than we run inside the 5 yard line. Why?

Short answer: The offensive line is terrible.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Ever heard of a guy named Melvin Gordon? He's only got 6000 yards from scrimmage and 44 touchdowns over the last 5 years.

I mean, you've spent two posts harping on how great Damien Harris was in college, then proceeded to forget that one of the best college RBs of all time exists. Next time think for 15 seconds before you post.



Mark Ingram is better than any back on the Patriots roster, and is plenty capable as a receiving threat to the point that they don't use or need a scat back. Gus Edwards is better than Burkhead and Bolden.



Despite playing behind the worst offensive line in the league and being tee'd off on as the only consistent threat on his team's offense, Joe Mixon still has 589 yards and 6 TDs over the last 5 games. He's an absolutely elite talent, and our offense would be in a much better place if we had him over any of our RBs. Giovani Bernard is significantly better than Burkhead and Bolden.

Yeah, their offense as a whole sucks, but it's not on the RBs. It's on literally everyone else.



Of course it does, and what does expensive have to do with anything? He's expensive because he's really good. And if guys like Bell who have produced 1000 yards this year in a bad offense are ****ty and overrated, then what does that say about our guys?

I also notice you didn't mention the Browns, does that mean you agree there and are ready to back off your weird assertion that we have the best RBs in the AFC?

I don't even think our RBs are bad, I think they're a generally serviceable and cost-effective group--neither especially good nor especially bad--that's trying to carve out yards in an offense that's lost Andrews, Gronk and Develin while dealing with major degradation in LT and RG performance due to injury. But if you can't acknowledge that they're not on the Austin Ekeler, Melvin Gordon, Joe Mixon or Le'Veon Bell level then your opinion on this topic is just too stupid to be worth entertaining. Adios.

Mixon is a one of the more wasted players in the league rn. I thought someone would grab him at the deadline tbh. Put him on a legit team/OL & he's a league leader in most important categories imo.

I hate comparing guys to great players but I can't help but get post-college L Bell vibes from him.

Of course he lit up a girl like he was on a roid rage so playing for NEP is out.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Ever heard of a guy named Melvin Gordon? He's only got 6000 yards from scrimmage and 44 touchdowns over the last 5 years.

I mean, you've spent two posts harping on how great Damien Harris was in college, then proceeded to forget that one of the best college RBs of all time exists. Next time think for 15 seconds before you post.



Mark Ingram is better than any back on the Patriots roster, and is plenty capable as a receiving threat to the point that they don't use or need a scat back. Gus Edwards is better than Burkhead and Bolden.



Despite playing behind the worst offensive line in the league and being tee'd off on as the only consistent threat on his team's offense, Joe Mixon still has 589 yards and 6 TDs over the last 5 games. He's an absolutely elite talent, and our offense would be in a much better place if we had him over any of our RBs. Giovani Bernard is significantly better than Burkhead and Bolden.

Yeah, their offense as a whole sucks, but it's not on the RBs. It's on literally everyone else.



Of course it does, and what does expensive have to do with anything? He's expensive because he's really good. And if guys like Bell who have produced 1000 yards this year in a bad offense are ****ty and overrated, then what does that say about our guys?

I also notice you didn't mention the Browns, does that mean you agree there and are ready to back off your weird assertion that we have the best RBs in the AFC?

I don't even think our RBs are bad, I think they're a generally serviceable and cost-effective group--neither especially good nor especially bad--that's trying to carve out yards in an offense that's lost Andrews, Gronk and Develin while dealing with major degradation in LT and RG performance due to injury. But if you can't acknowledge that they're not on the Austin Ekeler, Melvin Gordon, Joe Mixon or Le'Veon Bell level then your opinion on this topic is just too stupid to be worth entertaining. Adios.

Mark Ingram, the Saints cast off and underachiever? I don't think so. I think he fits well in their college wildcat/non-sustainable/RPO ******** offense for the moment, but he's not any better than Michel is right now. He just gets used and has better playcalling right now.

Joe Mixon? lmao

Melvin Gordon? The guy that held out and is overrated and will be out of LA next year?

Yeah, I am pretty sure James White is more a weapon than he is out of Wisconsin. NO one gameplans for fears freaking consistent, stable, but non impressive Melvin Gordon. NE has dismantled him with ease, for example, as have many teams and Ekeler easily replaced him

Poor argument.

I'll take 2 sets of 2 back sets with our HOF coach, O Line Coach and QB, thanks very much. Just because Brady and McD get into this over-analysis ******** every year like last year, doesn't mean NE has a weak batch of RBs.

We don't even see a Michel/White duo all the way down the field on a drive, using them for both running and passing, to offset how easy it is for the D to tell what the play is. But, we could use that and a Burkhead/Bolden duo in the same way. We literally have the health and personnel to do it and we don't do it. That's my point. AFC teams don't have RBs of this quality or depth. Period. I am not saying they are All Pro level, but that all of them can run inside, out and pass receive. It's a clear strength.

Brady has a responsibility to incoporate these things into he and McDs gameplans. They partially have a say in those. Don't be fooled.

Meawhile, Rivers throws to all his receivers and uses his RBs ,because he knows he needs them.

Not buying our OL personnel all decided to check out at once or the drop off from Andrews to Karras has been devastating. It's the lack of trust, which is wildly overrated, with all of the personnel at WR, Brady wanting to get familiar with Sanu as a new guy, and how all of this stuff gets lost in the shuffle.

It's not like these guys are injured and unable to function. Please.

Let me give you a hint: Do you see Ekeler subbed on and off constantly, or do you see him used on a drive all the way through?

McDaniels constant over-manipulation of personnel packages is the problem. They're tells to the D = Predictable As All Hell

Remember onto Cincinnati? What did they do? Committed to the run, ran it and rolled up their sleeves, and they didn't do it for one drive, settle for 3, and then ditch it the rest of the game either.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Mixon is a one of the more wasted players in the league rn. I thought someone would grab him at the deadline tbh. Put him on a legit team/OL & he's a league leader in most important categories imo.

I hate comparing guys to great players but I can't help but get post-college L Bell vibes from him.

Of course he lit up a girl like he was on a roid rage so playing for NEP is out.

I laughed when I read his argument. Very weak. I fell like Joe Mixon is like their WR John Ross. All the talent in the world, but very unimpressive or always dinged up.

You hear name, know the potential, but it just isn't there.

 

[TB_Helmet]

Mark Ingram, the Saints cast off and underachiever? I don't think so. I think he fits well in their college wildcat/non-sustainable/RPO ******** offense for the moment, but he's not any better than Michel is right now. He just gets used and has better playcalling right now.

Joe Mixon? lmao

Melvin Gordon? The guy that held out and is overrated and will be out of LA next year?

Yeah, I am pretty sure James White is more a weapon than he is out of Wisconsin. NO one gameplans for fears freaking consistent, stable, but non impressive Melvin Gordon. NE has dismantled him with ease, for example, as have many teams and Ekeler easily replaced him

Poor argument.

I'll take 2 sets of 2 back sets with our HOF coach, O Line Coach and QB, thanks very much. Just because Brady and McD get into this over-analysis ******** every year like last year, doesn't mean NE has a weak batch of RBs.

Brady has a responsibility to incoporate these things into he and McDs gameplans. They partially have a say in those. Don't be fooled.

Meawhile, Rivers throws to all his receivers and uses his RBs ,because he knows he needs them.

Not buying our OL personnel all decided to check out at once or the drop off from Andrews to Karras has been devastating. It's the lack of trust, which is wildly overrated, with all of the personnel at WR, Brady wanting to get familiar with Sanu as a new guy, and how all of this stuff gets lost in the shuffle.

It's not like these guys are injured and unable to function. Please.

Let me give you a hint: Do you see Ekeler subbed on and off constantly, or do you see him used on a drive all the way through?

McDaniels constant over-manipulation of personnel packages is the problem. They're tells to the D = Predictable As All Hell

Remember onto Cincinnati? What did they do? Committed to the run, ran it and rolled up their sleeves, and they didn't do it for one drive, settle for 3, and then ditch it the rest of the game either.

I don’t know .... seems like a tough call to say that Michel is currently better than Melvin Gordon, Joe Mixon, and Mark Ingram. I’d take all three of those guys over him in our offense.

 

[Ivan]

very good informative post...and yes I would say Poor drafting OVERALL has come back to bite us in a lot of ways ....This year is one of BB worst drafts

no doubt, it’s been a terrible era. They haven’t even won 80% of their games and a 3rd of the Lombardi’s. And if they weren’t lucky enough to draft at the end of every round every year it no doubt would have been even worse. Hopefully things will improve when Belichick and Brady are gone, cause this has really sucked. Great to see the misery is shared, merry Christmas.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Short answer: The offensive line is terrible.

Outside of Andrews, what's changed? Are you saying Scarnecchia is senile? Sorry, but I disagree. They've underachieved, sure, but they've also gotten no help by god awful work from McDaniels and Brady in gameplanning/calling.

Defenses see the subbing of backs, no playaction due to the run game abandoned by the 2nd qtr, as advantages, putting our OL on their heels.

We've seen this before, like last year, and it is able to be solved.

 

[SVN]

Outside of Andrews, what's changed? Are you saying Scarnecchia is senile? Sorry, but I disagree. They've underachieved, sure, but they've also gotten no help by god awful work from McDaniels and Brady in gameplanning/calling.

Defenses see the subbing of backs, no playaction due to the run game abandoned by the 2nd qtr, as advantages, putting our OL on their heels.

We've seen this before, like last year, and it is able to be solved.

No trent brown. LT is playing his 5th nfl game. And no gronk in the running game. Mason isnt playing well. JMcD can do better but this oline has lost 1 on 1 battles in critical times. They are down to their 3rd string center .Its no small thing .

 

[SVN]

 

[BradyFTW!]

No trent brown. LT is playing his 5th nfl game. And no gronk in the running game. Mason isnt playing well. JMcD can do better but this oline has lost 1 on 1 battles in critical times. They are down to their 3rd string center .Its no small thing .

Yup. The LT, C, FB and TE1 have changed, and RG has been strongly downgraded due to an injury that I suspect is more severe than anyone's letting on. And as you noted, they're now down to the third option at bother center and FB. At this point it's more fitting to ask what hasn't changed than what has.