Poor drafting now biting the Patriots in the butt?

[Chris Stevenson]

How the hell do you miss on all four of Jackson, Ridley, Moore, and Chubb? Not one of them stood out to you? They were stars in college whose tape ooozed star status. You pass on all 4?

6 superbowls but that’s some PISS poor scouting

Yes, NE going to the sb every year, and last year because of the d, which means it is not all Brady just like from 2001-2004, means NE has awful scouting.

You people do this every year when Brady has a bad stretch. It gets worse when the stretch lasts for a longer period of time than a a couple of games.

Like all players on offense right now, including Brady, they are to be held accountable.

 

[203Pat]

Well, now we've come full circle.

With WRs, I think is exactly that - and I think Brady recently admitted it. He doesn't like rookie WRs. He's been pretty clear about that. The system they run sucks for rookies, and the quarterback shows no in-game patience for rookie mistakes.

Ready? Since 2010, here are the Pats' WR draft picks:

Braxton Berrios - 6th round, 210 overall
Devin Lucien - 7th round, 225 overall
Malcolm Mitchell - 4th Round, 112 overall
Jeremy Gallon - 7th Round, 244th overall
Aaron Dobson - 2nd Round, 54th overall
Josh Boyce - 4th Round, 102nd overall
Jeremy Ebert - 7th Round, 235 overall
Taylor Price - 3rd Round, 90th overall

Dobson had 519 yards (43/game) in 12 games (hurt his foot, remember?) his first year with the Pats. Compare that to most rookies and it's hardly bad. He came back late the next year and got hurt again.

He started the third year by getting 7/87 in week 2 in a tough game against Buffalo, then, surprise, got hurt again and was IR'd, then cut the following year.

Injuries happen, unpredictably. Other than Dobson (and Harry this year), where have you seen the Pats draft high for WR? Price at 90 was a bust, yep.

This team in the second half (at least) of Brady's career, simply doesn't develop WRs. They just don't. They look for bargains in FA/Trade and go from there.

And none of them ever went anywhere else and did anything. Maybe we just suck at drafting receivers.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Wow .I didnt realize how much JMcD and brady have sucked over the yrs just like this yr. We got so lucky to win any games with these two bozos.

I never said they sucked a lot over the years.

McDanis is very lucky to have worked for BB, had Scarnecchia here, Fears and of course, Brady.

And, tons of weapons to play with, too, save for 2009.

Must be nice to have HOF caliber players and Brady to be calling plays for.

If he goes somewhere else at the end of the year, as rumored, watch what happens.

He is good, but not as great as people make him out to be. He has his flaws.

 

[farn]

And none of them ever went anywhere else and did anything. Maybe we just suck at drafting receivers.

Maybe. Or maybe the system that makes receivers flourish on the stat sheet sont always lead to wins. Winning is everything. The WR obsession around here is remarkable.

This whole thread is beyond absurd. Yes, they lost two in a row. Yes, the offense is sputtering. They are the reigning SB champs with a 10-3 record this year. They might not win the SB. They might not make the SB.

The League is full of teams that have amazing WR stats and empty trophy cases. I just don’t get the whole “winning superbowls doesn’t factor into this discussion” crap. Winning SBs is the ONLY thing. The only thing. Nothing else matters. Either you win the SB or you build towards winning the SB. There is nothing else. “Making the playoffs”, “drafting WRs”.... none of that matters. Win the SB. Built towards winning the SB.

 

[203Pat]

Maybe. Or maybe the system that makes receivers flourish on the stat sheet sont always lead to wins. Winning is everything. The WR obsession around here is remarkable.

This whole thread is beyond absurd. Yes, they lost two in a row. Yes, the offense is sputtering. They are the reigning SB champs with a 10-3 record this year. They might not win the SB. They might not make the SB.

The League is full of teams that have amazing WR stats and empty trophy cases. I just don’t get the whole “winning superbowls doesn’t factor into this discussion” crap. Winning SBs is the ONLY thing. The only thing. Nothing else matters. Either you win the SB or you build towards winning the SB. There is nothing else. “Making the playoffs”, “drafting WRs”.... none of that matters. Win the SB. Built towards winning the SB.

I don't know how you got to the standard "we win games" defense from what I said. As far as drafting wide receivers we have a bad track record. Really no way to debate it. If we went 19-0 every year and our receivers are performing the way they are this year that wouldn't make them good receivers. Just because we win games doesn't mean the team is prefect at everything it does.

 

[50-yard-line]

And none of them ever went anywhere else and did anything. Maybe we just suck at drafting receivers.

Considering that the only ones taken before the 3rd Round (Dobson) had a promising start and a promising return before injuries ended both, your argument comes down to Tate - unless you can show me all the lower than 3rd Round WR picks who failed with their first team, then went on to have a career elsewhere.

WR is like TE. Teams have 1 or 2 - that's it - guys who share roles on their active squad.

They suck at drafting receivers because they don't spend draft capital on receivers and they have a QB and system that is not conducive to rookies, particularly when the OL is battered and not giving Brady time for checkdowns.

 

[203Pat]

Considering that the only ones taken before the 3rd Round (Dobson) had a promising start and a promising return before injuries ended both, your argument comes down to Tate - unless you can show me all the lower than 3rd Round WR picks who failed with their first team, then went on to have a career elsewhere.

WR is like TE. Teams have 1 or 2 - that's it - guys who share roles on their active squad.

They suck at drafting receivers because they don't spend draft capital on receivers and they have a QB and system that is not conducive to rookies, particularly when the OL is battered and not giving Brady time for checkdowns.

I know this always boils down to "they don't spend the capital on receivers" but the capital they do spend on receivers (granted it is mostly mid to late rounders) always seems to end up wasted. My point earlier was that they never did anything after they left NE because they were just flat out bad players not because our system was tough. They could've landed with a team with an easier system, picked it up, and then had success but they didn't because they just weren't talented enough.

 

[captain stone]

Before I make my way to the Bears Den in a couple of hours, I leave you all with this inconvenient Truth:
Little Billy the GM has killed, is killing now, and will forevermore continue to kill Bill the HC.

And that's a fact, Jack.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I know this always boils down to "they don't spend the capital on receivers" but the capital they do spend on receivers (granted it is mostly mid to late rounders) always seems to end up wasted. My point earlier was that they never did anything after they left NE because they were just flat out bad players not because our system was tough. They could've landed with a team with an easier system, picked it up, and then had success but they didn't because they just weren't talented enough.

You and I have battled over this issue for years but I do think we agree on 3 points.

The NEP don't draft as many WRs as other teams. We know the reasons.

More often than not, the players they do draft don't pan out here.

The players they draft don't pan out anywhere else either.

The open question is how do the NEP compare to other NFL teams. My gut tells me their hit rate is average but that would take research to confirm.

 

[203Pat]

You and I have battled over this issue for years but I do think we agree on 3 points.

The NEP don't draft as many WRs as other teams. We know the reasons.

More often than not, the players they do draft don't pan out here.

The players they draft don't pan out anywhere else either.

The open question is how do the NEP compare to other NFL teams. My gut tells me their hit rate is average but that would take research to confirm.

Haha we’ve definitely been through this before but when you frame the question with our receiver picks vs the league average I would agree with you. I know the Steelers get brought up a lot (I’ve brought them up in the past as well) and they’ve had some very good receivers they’ve drafted but have used much more capital to draft them and have also had some duds. That being said we haven’t had good luck at the receiver position the with mid to late rounders like we’ve had in some other spots (D-line, defensive backs). I’m certainly not giving up on Harry but that’s not to say I’m not nervous about him at this point.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Yep, that's a great point. I mentioned it's definitely possible it's just bad scouting (drafting). It's crazy to think they are so consistently poor at drafting wr's, but the facts definitely support it. I wonder what it is they look for in their wr's that cause them to miss routinely?

BB looks for super boy scout, non-prima-donna WRs. Unfortunately they are not made that way so he has ended up with one boy scout after another, most of whom have sucked.

 

[DarrylS]

Before I make my way to the Bears Den in a couple of hours, I leave you all with this inconvenient Truth:
Little Billy the GM has killed, is killing now, and will forevermore continue to kill Bill the HC.

And that's a fact, Jack.

Facts are usually substantiated with uh, facts.. not conjecture.

Need to qualify your position a tad better...

 

[DarrylS]

You and I have battled over this issue for years but I do think we agree on 3 points.

The NEP don't draft as many WRs as other teams. We know the reasons.

More often than not, the players they do draft don't pan out here.

The players they draft don't pan out anywhere else either.

The open question is how do the NEP compare to other NFL teams. My gut tells me their hit rate is average but that would take research to confirm.

Interesting observation, there was also a graphic on twitter (cannot find it now) that illustrated how the Pats have the most "home grown" talent than any other team in the NFL...

 

[RobertWeathers]

Interesting observation, there was also a graphic on twitter (cannot find it now) that illustrated how the Pats have the most "home grown" talent than any other team in the NFL...

In JE, Harry, Meyers they have 3. Not bad

 

[varjao]

The biggest problem has been the 2nd and 3rd rounds. That's where you'll find good, starting players that will bring talent that after a couple years in the league some will evaluate as a 1st round worthy pick. If not, they will bring stability and will be on the field sunday, and many of them can be retained without breaking the bank.

I have no problem with BB 1st round choices and he's been very good in the 4th as well, but man this avalanche of 2nd round bust DB's has been terrible, absolutely terrible. You get 10 guys out of the draft forum without nitpicking too much and they would do a better job than BB in these rounds. God d%#*!@t man , can't you draft a WR that can be a good piece in the offense even in a limited role?

Michel is getting some heat around here but I'm fine with this pick , it's already been paid off with last year's SB. I'm not judging a lot from a 2nd year player with the O-line we have.

 

[Clonamery]

I never said they sucked a lot over the years.

McDanis is very lucky to have worked for BB, had Scarnecchia here, Fears and of course, Brady.

And, tons of weapons to play with, too, save for 2009.

Must be nice to have HOF caliber players and Brady to be calling plays for.

If he goes somewhere else at the end of the year, as rumored, watch what happens.

He is good, but not as great as people make him out to be. He has his flaws.

Who doesn’t have flaws? Fabulous analysis.

 

[BTTA]

The Pats can't improve their ability to draft WR's (put more time/attention/resource into it) without upsetting the apple cart somewhere else. They have finite resources, and a lot of this is zero sum. Magic doesn't happen.

They might find a better WR but at the expense of finding a player at a different position that contributed to a SB victory.

If you want to mess with a complex system, you have to take responsibility for where all the dominoes fall.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I laughed when I read his argument. Very weak. I fell like Joe Mixon is like their WR John Ross. All the talent in the world, but very unimpressive or always dinged up.

You hear name, know the potential, but it just isn't there.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

He praises a lot of other teams' players. Mixon is a fine player. Never said he wasn't. Cincy uses their lead RB, we bury ours. Mixon might be a tick better than what Michel is.

I was specifically talking about NE's quality, versatility and depth, not to list other teams who have a good RB starter.

LOL

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Who doesn’t have flaws? Fabulous analysis.

Who doesn't have a brain? A lot of people in this country. We see it daily.

With Brady, and some of our fanboys, he can do no wrong. We have people on other threads claiming his crap throws yesterday, were good throws, for example.

Have a nice day!