POLL: Patriots HoF Finalists, Pick your poison

[crawhammer]

Um, people aren't voting for him because of what he's doing now. They're voting for him for what he did for the Pats.

Did you not want Ty Law to be in the HOF because he owns trampoline businesses? Not voting for a guy because of his current job and not for what he did to win your team championships is ridiculous at best.

Bad analogy. Ty Law wasn't the head coach of another NFL team. My issue with Vrabel is specific to being an active head coach. If Ty Law had owned the New York Jets then I probably wouldn't have voted for him. Owning trampoline parks is irrelevant to an NFL career.

 

[Steve102]

Underwhelming group. I say the fix is in, because if they made Welker a finalist vs. this group, he'd win the fan vote easily. I voted Vrabel. I already covered my thoughts on Parcells in the other thread. Re: Parcells and Mankins both: bad timing, lots of dudes with jewelry coming up. Rings trumps all IMO.

 

[crawhammer]

Underwhelming group. I say the fix is in, because if they made Welker a finalist vs. this group, he'd win the fan vote easily.

I don't get it. Welker is arguably the best WR in the history of the franchise. How is that player not getting into the team's Hall of Fame? It's madness.

 

[Steve102]

I don't get it. Welker is arguably the best WR in the history of the franchise. How is that player not getting into the team's Hall of Fame? It's madness.

I think he's got an uphill battle starting next year. I know you love the player and the numbers, but the ring is the thing here my man.

 

[Real fan 02]

I'm a Tuna guy. Parcells is the culture and the template, full stop. There would be no Belichick without Parcells. The architect period. I was at Bryant practices and he change the Patriots forever. He deserves the nod if you are a historian and look at his picks, his demeanor, his football acumen. The teacher! I respect him.

Agreed!! Is why I voted for him.. he drafted the foundation pieces to set the example of the patriots way.. wich in turn allowed the GOAT to come in play his part. " if they want you to cook the meal, they oughta let you shop for some of groceries " the tuna!

 

[Dingleberry]

Vrabel would not have been my first choice, but he is the only choice among the three.

Tuna Benedict is a hard no.

Mankins was a very good Guard when he wasn't handing over his lunch money to the Giants DL like a little *****.

With all of the recently retired eligibles coming up, Welker might be waiting 10+ years. That works for me.

 

[patfanken]

I am amazed that Parcells even made the top 3. To put a coach who only won half his games, was negotiating his next coaching job, DURING our superbowl run, poached one of our best players, and didn't even fly home with the team after the superbowl, would be a travesty to the rest of the men in the HOF.

Parcells proved over and over that he was VERY good at building winning team, and but not very good at maintaining them. THAT is much harder to do when you are picking at the end of the round for 20 years. A lot easier when you are picking at the top. But what we are talking about is what he did as a Patriots HC. And what I saw was essentially one great year and a .500 record. Good but HOF?, I don't think so.

BTW- to those who constantly want to pound the "what has BB done without Brady", well what has Parcells done without Bill Bellichick? Just sayin'

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

************, we're going to vote in the current head coach of the Tennessee Titans? No thank you.


Good for you. It's better than voting for an active head coach of another team. WTF.


What exactly did Parcells do BEFORE the Super Bowl? Like Parcells is somehow responsible for the loss. How? What did he do that determined the outcome of that game?

People need to re-watch Super Bowl 31. The better QB won the game. Favre was in the prime of his career and in the midst of 3 consecutive NFL MVPs. Green Bay had the #1 scoring offense (and #1 scoring defense). Green Bay was the better team with the much better QB. Favre finished SB 31 with a 107.9 passer rating, 3 TDs, and 0 turnovers. Bledsoe finished with a a 46.6 passer rating, 2 TDs, and 4 turnovers. That kind of discrepancy in QB play is impossible for a team to overcome. End of story. So if you want to blame someone for the Patriots losing the game then obviously it's Bledsoe. Not Parcells (and whatever he allegedly did before the game). He could have taken a steaming dump right in the middle of the locker room pregame, it's not the reason they lost.

We lost XXXI because Parcells did not order Perkins to hand the rock to the tough kid C-Mart.

Landry let young Thomas run and they won.

Dropping Bledsoe back to pass fifty times was suicide. He could throw a ball but had little football acumen.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Vrabel is so overrated. You guys are voting based on what he did with his team and not him individually. If he were anywhere else in the NFL, he'd be an afterthought.

I voted Mankins who was the better player at his position.

Parcells should make based on what he did - drafts, taking them to a Super Bowl and having Bill Belichick on his staff which established the relationship with Robert Kraft.

Steve Zabel made as large a contribution to us as Mike Vrabel, and was just as versatile.

Did Logan Mankins do as much for us as Wes Welker?

Parcells' endless nominations are in fact local media declaring:

"We Decide And Tell You What Is Right, What Is True, And What You Think."

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

not quite sure what happened here... glitch in the matrix i suppose...

My vote:

RLKAG

 

[patfanken]

Steve Zabel made as large a contribution to us as Mike Vrabel, and was just as versatile.

Did Logan Mankins do as much for us as Wes Welker?

Parcells' endless nominations are in fact local media declaring:

"We Decide And Tell You What Is Right, What Is True, And What You Think."

Right on the money with your last points. Parecells' relationship with the media is the reason why he made to the Canton HOF so fast.. Maybe he GREATEST skill was making the media love him everywhere he landed and that's a lot of places so you KNOW it wasn't just a fluke. He knew just what to say. His pressers were must hear radio or TV.

BUT beyond the ability to take high draft picks and build a championship contender for the short term, he just didn't do enough to be in the Pats HOF and its not close.

BTW- Mankins and Vrabel are not exactly moving the needle for me much either. Vrabel belongs in the "good" players HOF. He has the rings, but was NEVER a great player. He had only one season (2007) were he had double digit sacks IIRC Therre are a number of older player who belong ahead of him, I believe

But since I only had 3 to vote for, my vote went to Mankins, who was a DOMINANT LG for a lot of years for us. His lack of rings wasn't his fault.
BTW-2 - I don't think Welker was the best WR in Pats history, but if his name had been there, I would have voted for him

 

[crawhammer]

We lost XXXI because Parcells did not order Perkins to hand the rock to the tough kid C-Mart.

Landry let young Thomas run and they won.

Dropping Bledsoe back to pass fifty times was suicide. He could throw a ball but had little football acumen.

While I agree with your insult of Bledsoe, my question was what alleged off-field pregame thing was Parcells guilty of that was responsible for the Super Bowl loss? Some people are saying he did something which effected the team so egregiously that they lost. What was it??

 

[crawhammer]

I don't think Welker was the best WR in Pats history, but if his name had been there, I would have voted for him

Who then? I think an alternative argument can only be made for one other WR in franchise history... Stanley Morgan.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Who then? I think an alternative argument can only be made for one other WR in franchise history... Stanley Morgan.

What's wrong with Randy Moss?

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

While I agree with your insult of Bledsoe

No insult of Drew. Vast majority of players are not historically great.

Drew's a good guy and a good football player. And, again, not his fault that he was worshipped and labeled the 'savior' here. Comported himself well, although I disagree with the majority that believe he handled 2001 well, with this exception: Drew has feelings just like everybody else, and he really wanted to play. That's a good thing. It's just that the legion who wanted and believe(d) he should have been put back in are totally ignorant of how that would have destroyed the season. It's okay to idolize and like a player. But in this case it was way, way out of proportion to his actual effectiveness.

So, while we're on the subject, about Mac Jones and how it was suicide and wrong to put him back in there last season:

Tom Brady, Terry Bradshaw, Steve Grogan, Roger Staubach, Joe Montana, Jim Plunkett and Johnny Unitas to name a few all spent time on the bench. They didn't like it, but they did. Why is Mac Jones special?

my question was what alleged off-field pregame thing was Parcells guilty of that was responsible for the Super Bowl loss? Some people are saying he did something which effected the team so egregiously that they lost. What was it??

It wasn't alleged, it was real; its effect was on and through media - which shouldn't be discounted, just look at Tomase and 42...although that was fictitious, nonexistent, made up with zero basis in reality - any negative distraction can cripple a team, especially an underdog on the biggest stage in the world. The Eugene Robinson thing destroyed the Falcons. There's just too much pressure and too much on the line to mess up like that. The Barret Robbins thing hurt the Raiders.

Bill's plan was to accept the trophy, and then still stick it to Kraft and take off alone and be on his way. Bill's egomaniacal. But he used that with great success in his career. Obviously, no one - Parcells, Perkins, Belichick, no one - decided to or perhaps even thought of running the ball down the Packers' throats, which is exactly what the Donkeys did a year later. Why is...what's his name...Terrell...Terrell Davis in the HOF? Okay, because people think three very good seasons merits it...sometimes. Riggins is a better example, and he had to advocate for himself with Gibbs to get the ball, plus Bugel obviously wasn't an idiot.

If you theoretically erase Parcells' escape to NY, would he/they still have had the same game plan and gone down in flames? I think so. The Packers were the stronger team with the better quarterback - like I meant earlier, to win as the underdog you need almost everything to go right, including your preparation, game plan, and adjustments at halftime.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

BUT beyond the ability to take high draft picks and build a championship contender for the short term, he just didn't do enough to be in the Pats HOF and its not close.

This correct statement should be flashed on the Gillette jumbotron until the first preseason game

Vrabel belongs in the "good" players HOF. He has the rings, but was NEVER a great player. He had only one season (2007) were he had double digit sacks IIRC Therre are a number of older player who belong ahead of him, I believe

...and there are a number of guys already inducted and honored while they were alive that are rightly popular and good...but not more worthy than Adams, Francis, Tatupu, Stingley and Fairbanks.

They include Bruschi, Brown, Faulk, Harrison, Light, McGinest and IMO Bledsoe.

 

[Brotherblues]

But since I only had 3 to vote for, my vote went to Mankins, who was a DOMINANT LG for a lot of years for us. His lack of rings wasn't his fault.

The dude would line up backwards with his butt towards the line of scrimmage if there were Giants linemen accross.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

The dude would line up backwards with his butt towards the line of scrimmage if there were Giants linemen accross.

It's a team sport, and Logan & Wes are easy scapegoats.

I believe Belichick did NOT have his team in the proper frame of mind for both championship games.

IMO because he just loves the Giants and can't help himself.

 

[Real fan 02]

Who then? I think an alternative argument can only be made for one other WR in franchise history... Stanley Morgan.

Not only was Welker in his 5 years a hell of a productive slot WR he was averaging over 100 catches.. he was uncoverable, he broke down defenses esspecially on 3rd down.. definitely deserves considerations towards the patriots hall and the NFL hall as well.. just my thoughts..

 

[All3Phases]

I don't get it. Welker is arguably the best WR in the history of the franchise. How is that player not getting into the team's Hall of Fame? It's madness.

He’s a coach on the dolphins!