Phase III is upon us...

[shakadave]

Same system different postion.. But as someone else pointed out (Vrabel was first name to come to mind and still believe my point) but Cox is another..

But hadn't Cox played for Belichick in the same basic system with the Jets? IIRC, Cox was not at all new to the BB system when the Pats acquired him.

Beisel is still in the running to become the quickest ILB ever to learn the BB system!

 

[mcsully]

But hadn't Cox played for Belichick in the same basic system with the Jets? IIRC, Cox was not at all new to the BB system when the Pats acquired him.

Beisel is still in the running to become the quickest ILB ever to learn the BB system!

Good question but different defense.. Jets played 4-3 most those years..

 

[Flying Fungi]

Good question but different defense.. Jets played 4-3 most those years..

regardless, cox and phifer had more combined years in the NFL than beisel's age! crafty vets are crafty for a reason...

 

[rookBoston]

Nice threat topic, Az. I completely agree with your structure.

Phase 3 may not have much for us this year.

A QB, certainly. Flutie or another like him.
Maybe a WR, but probably of the JAG TC-bait variety (assuming we can even find one) with an eye to the kicking game. Tim Dwight-like.
Maybe a veteran LB in the Bryan Cox, Roman Phifer, Chad Brown mold.
Long shot for a veteran OC for depth... but Hochstein is absolutely adequate.

Other than that... probably not much.

Remember we got Grammatica, Caldwell, Jones and Mitchell in Phase 1, and in any other year those would be Phase 3 players. I actually think the 80-man roster is pretty loaded and very deep.

And, as mentioned, the Phase 3 talent pool is very thin this year. Even slimmer pickin's than usual, and not a strong likelihood of finding players who'll be competitive in terms of experience, size and speed.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Nice threat topic, Az. I completely agree with your structure.

Phase 3 may not have much for us this year.

A QB, certainly. Flutie or another like him.
Maybe a WR, but probably of the JAG TC-bait variety (assuming we can even find one) with an eye to the kicking game. Tim Dwight-like.
Maybe a veteran LB in the Bryan Cox, Roman Phifer, Chad Brown mold.
Long shot for a veteran OC for depth... but Hochstein is absolutely adequate.

Other than that... probably not much.

Remember we got Grammatica, Caldwell, Jones and Mitchell in Phase 1, and in any other year those would be Phase 3 players. I actually think the 80-man roster is pretty loaded and very deep.

And, as mentioned, the Phase 3 talent pool is very thin this year. Even slimmer pickin's than usual, and not a strong likelihood of finding players who'll be competitive in terms of experience, size and speed.

Well, I'm sure AZ would acknowledge that BB has often remarked about the three phases of the offseason...

But I think you are correct - no one should get their hopes too high for big finds at this stage of FA

This has been the 2nd busiest FA period - for obvious reasons given the extra cap space - so with only 100 FAs left, as teams address remaining needs and pre-season camp injuries, the pool will be smaller, demand will be higher, and its less likely talent and value will skirt by other teams unnoticed

So we're kidding ourselves if we're expecting 2006 to be the same as other years when the FA market was a whole lot different

 

[MalaysiaPatsFan]

I don’t expect the Pats to make a big splash in free agency, nor do I expect a lot of June 1, salary cap cuts to become available. However, looking at the current roster the Pats could still pick up a few middle tier FAs.

QB – If Flutie retires I expect the Pats to pick up a vet QB even if they think Cassell is ready to be the #2 QB. They should have an experienced backup QB to run the scout team. Looking at the free agency list on KFFL a few possibilities are Jay Fiedler, Shane Mathews and Jeff Blake.

WR – I am not expecting the Pats to pick up a big name WR, but another player like Caldwell who is not a big name but shows some promise might be a good pickup. Looking at the free agency list on KFFL a few possibilities are Randy Hymes, Jerome Pathon and Dez White or maybe even Ricky Proehl if he still has anything left in the tank. I don’t know much about any of these guys except Proehl.

LB – I think the Pats might be OK at LB, but I am concerned that one or two injuries could decimate the LB depth and there would be a huge dropoff in talent on the field. Looking at the free agency list on KFFL a few possibilities are Peter Boulware, Chris Clairborne, Quinn Dorsey (was with the Pats briefly before he was traded to Chicago), Ronald McKinnon, Keith Newman, Orlando Ruff and Junior Seau. I realize that some of these guys have not played in the 3-4, but they might still be worth a look. I tried to pick guys with the size to play 3-4 and decent experience and production (except Dorsey).

I admit that I don’t know much about most of these guys. What do you think? Are any of them worth consideration? Most of them should not be expecting big paychecks at this point in free agency. What are the good sites to look at players still available in free agency other than KFFL? I wouldn’t mind seeing David Patten in a Pats uniform this season if he gets cut by Washington.

 

[Mike the Brit]

People waiting to fill rosters with trades and quality June 1 discards may have a long wait.

Very much agree -- the new CBA has given teams a lot more cap room than they expected to have a year ago. They can now keep guys that they would otherwise have had to let go. There aren't going to be many fire sales.

 

[the taildragger]

Looking at the free agency list on KFFL a few possibilities are Randy Hymes, Jerome Pathon and Dez White or maybe even Ricky Proehl if he still has anything left in the tank. I don’t know much about any of these guys except Proehl.

I wonder if the Pats are interested in Proehl. seems like a perfect fit for one season while Jackson makes the leap. if he plays half as well for us as he plays against us it's a steal.

 

[patsox23]

Same system different postion.. But as someone else pointed out (Vrabel was first name to come to mind and still believe my point) but Cox is another..

Vrabel has played inside some since 2001. So it was not a totally new position for him.

 

[patsfan55]

I remember reading pre-draft that Keith Bulluck was going a possibility to be a cap casualty? Anybody know anything about that? I Believe that the Titans are real close to the cap ($100,000 I believe) And they still have to sign their Rookies-Vince Young, Lendale White and such. Hes 29 and has made over 120 tackles in each of his last 4 years. I think he could be a Big player for the patriots. And if this doenst work out, I would also like Donnie Edwards as he can get it done. He has had over 150 tackles in each of his last 3 seasons. But according to Foxsports the chargers say that if they cannot work out a deal to trade Edwards away, They will keep him.

The news on Edwards not being traded is in the Fantasy news
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player?categoryId=69835

i would piss my pants if we got keith bulluck
i doubt that he will be let go though

 

[PatsFanInVa]

WR – I am not expecting the Pats to pick up a big name WR, but another player like Caldwell who is not a big name but shows some promise might be a good pickup. Looking at the free agency list on KFFL a few possibilities are Randy Hymes, Jerome Pathon and Dez White or maybe even Ricky Proehl if he still has anything left in the tank. I don’t know much about any of these guys except Proehl.

I won't talk about linebacker except to say none of the names makes me jump out of my seat. I liked Kassel because he has time to get it right and continue to contribute... I don't know which of the guys you named would be able to step in and do so right NOW... since guys like Seau are old, he's got to do it NOW... Claiborne is young enough but disappointing. I liked Edwards to be a trade pickup, but I hear more about that being possible here than I hear about it from reporters these days... we'll see.

In terms of receivers - LOVE Randy Hymes. He's young, and he showed a flash in 05, where he actually made Kyle Boller look good. I remember him as sure-handed, a good route runner, and your basic git er done receiver. (Now I will have to look at the old stats pages to try and substantiate that.)

Okay, enough of this... is it football time yet? Huh? Huh? My God, to think that in a mere 4 months we'd all be watching the 2nd half of the 1:00 games... waaaaah.

PFnV

 

[DaBruinz]

I going to have to strongly disagree. Vrabel learned the position in weeks. Biesel had all of training camp and a good part of the season to learn and never got into flow. Biesel comes for a KC team that was never known for their defense. So to answer your question, he wasn't robbed and one ILB off the top of my head learned the ILB position in a portion of the time.

McSully, I'm sorry, but you are 100% incorrect regarding Vrabel. Vrabel didn't learn the position in weeks. That is a such a huge exaggeration.

1) Vrabel hasdbeen in the Pats system for 4 years. As part of the system, you are supposed to know what your teammates are going to be doing.
2) Vrabel has had some ILB assingments previously, including lining up as the 3 ILB in the 3-5-3 set that the Pats used in the SB.
3) Vrabel was given the ILB play-book in the off-season. BB's intention, before Vrabel got hurt in TC, was to have Vrabel practicing there so that he could be there to start the season.
4) Beisel had NEVER played a full season at ILB. He spent 9 games as the MLB for KC. And you know that MLB is different than ILB.

 

[DaBruinz]

I also disagree. Roman Phifer and Brian Cox came in and learned the system right away, granted, they weren't starting and we were still a 4-3 defense for Phifer's first two years.

I haven't completely lost hope in Beisel although he looked horrible last year, and I dont think he's tough enough to be a 3-4 ILB in our system. I'm hoping we get Tedy a solid running mate well before TC.

You can disagree all you want, but you would be wrong. Especially with your examples.

1) The 4-3 that the Pats used in 2001 and 2002 were very similar to the ones used by BB when he was with the Jets. So, Phifer and Cox didn't have much to learn.

2) Phifer was starting at OLB in 2001. He started the SB for the Pats. And Phifer was moved to ILB after 2 years in the Pats system

3) Beisel looked like a guy who had NEVER played ILB and was thrust into a defense that he was over-whelmed by. Not only was Beisel learning a new position, but he was stuck with the responsibility of calling out the defensive adjustments for the line.

 

[DaBruinz]

Same system different postion.. But as someone else pointed out (Vrabel was first name to come to mind and still believe my point) but Cox is another..

Unfortunately, McSully, what you are ignoring is that Cox was playing in the same 4-3 system that he played in under Belichick while with the Jets. Also, Cox was here for ONE year.

Also, discounting how long a player is in the system also discounts the fact that the Pats teach you to know what your teammates are supposed to be doing on the plays. And its easier to make that transistion when you KNOW how the system is supposed to wortk.

 

[DaBruinz]

Good question but different defense.. Jets played 4-3 most those years..

McSully -
And the Pats were playing the 4-3 during the 2001 season. They were NOT in the 3-4 at that point. And Cox only played for the Pats for 1 season.

 

[patsfan55]

the thing that bothers me about beisel
is when he tackles he doesnt seem to drive through the ballcarrier
a lot of times he lets the ball carrier take the hit to him

you cant do this as an ilb

 

[DaBruinz]

the thing that bothers me about beisel
is when he tackles he doesnt seem to drive through the ballcarrier
a lot of times he lets the ball carrier take the hit to him

you cant do this as an ilb

You won't see me disagree with you there. However, I think that is mostly technique. Tackling coming out of a 3 point stance is different than starting standing up.

Too many times, I saw Beisel try and wrap up a WR around the shoulders, only to have that RB break it easily. It remains to be seen if Beisel can get his technique fixed. If he can't he's gone.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Bulluck? yes

i would piss my pants if we got keith bulluck
i doubt that he will be let go though

But I'd certainly trade a day 1 pick for him...

 

[patsox23]

Honestly, I would consider dealing a 1st rounder for Bulluck. In a million years, we're not GOING to, but if they did, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

 

[mcsully]

Vrabel has played inside some since 2001. So it was not a totally new position for him.

very little and when he did he didn't miss any assignments like our friend here.