PFT: Matt Patricia to call plays on offense?

[Ring 6]

Like I said before, the Pats already have a great QB whisperer in BB, You know in an ideal world OBrien would come here and this wouldn't be an issue. But it didn't happen for whatever reasons and we have to move on. Maybe there MIGHT have been some younger coach who could have fit the bill with more experience, BUT what about the amount of time it would have taken to not only learn the Pat's system, BUT the LANGUAGE as well. Semantics plays such a critical role in how smooth an operation becomes. It shouldn't be underestimated as a factor.

BOTTOM LINE: We can always make cases both pro and con for this seemingly strange off season in the coaching room. But in the end the proof will be in the pudding. If the Pats look sloppy and disjointed in their offensive execution next year then all the haters can say I told you so to guys like me. And if they DO look better than they were last year..... I will desperately try and NOT say "I told you so"

As a closing thought that just occurred to me. When I was in HS, we had just 2 coaches coaching our varsity team, 2 for the JV's and 2 for the freshman. When I started coaching in HS in the 70's we had 4 for the varsity and my first year as a HC we had a staff of 5. Now Bill has been notorious for having one of the smallest coaching staffs in the league if not THE smallest. On one site I looked at the Pats have 6 offensive coaches, 6 on D, 2 on ST's and 2 "Quality control" assistants. So that's 16 not counting 2 strength and conditioning guys. You get the picture. With 16 guys PLUS Bill plus whatever other "interns and QC" coaches they have running around. The Pats have MORE than enough guys to give every player a lot of personal attention.

So I judge coaching on just how good they are in COMMUNICATING the message they want to get across in what ever individual, group or team drill they have. As a player, they don't give a f$ck about the fact that Steve's highest football accomplishment was a walk on long snapper. OR that Jerad was an NFL All Pro. All THEY really care about is are my coaches helping me to be a better player and putting me in a position to make plays. There are no secret drills, Every drill for every position are written down somewhere no mystery there. So what makes a coach stand out is simple. Are they good communicators or not? Patricia and Judge have proven that in the past they HAVE been good communicators. The fact they are now coaching other positions isn't a bigger factor for me as it might be for others.

Ken I hope you contribute more to this discussion based upon your experience. There are a lot of people who know nothing about coaching filling this board with their uninformed misunderstandings.
One of the worst things that happens on this board is when an incorrect belief is repeated some many times that the group think takes it over and it ruins the real football talk.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

No Hufnagel was only here in 2003.
If you had paid attention at the time it was well publicized that belichick was personally coaching Brady.

Everyone who contributes to success gets credit. Because success is a result and arbitrarily assigned credit is blind conjecture.

How about you cite an article instead of just spewing it?

 

[All3Phases]

That's not all together true. After Raybine died Tom's QB coach for the next 3 years was none other than Bill Bellichick! How'd that work out.

Id feel great if BB took over the offense, not sure who argued against that...The problem is at 70, hes heavily involved with the defense and offense. How comfortable do you feel about that?

I don't understand WHY people seem to think that working on the offense or defense are totally different things. You CANNOT be a DC without an INTIMATE knowledge of offense Can't happen. How many years did Dante play OL, yet he was deemed my many the best OL coach who ever coached in the league.

I dont get why people think its the same thing. Not many coaches are hired to do the exact opposite of what theyve been doing for years. Thatd be like the Raiders hiring Josh McD as a DC. Id question that as well.

MP was a fine DC, not perfect, but no one is. Otherwise shut outs would be the norm, instead of being an defensive genius if you can hold a team under 25. And for all you guys who just demand an attacking D and get pissed off at any bend but not breaks strategies, remember this. If attacking D's were perfect, ALL teams would be running them ALL the time....and of course we know they don't.

I don't think I ever said otherwise

Finally I'm getting a little tired of posters who feel that calling Patricia "fat mat" or other mean terms. STOP it. It only demeans you. It's like you were the 3rd grade bully and by the 7th grade everyone was bigger than you and you had no one left to bully.. If you have a criticism of a player or coach just state it. IF you still feel the need to belittle people anonymously then you are the one who comes across as being just sad.

I havent called him Fat once, unless you were speaking generally

 

[catent]

View attachment 43453

Did DeGuglielmo ever call plays? (No)

For how long was DeGuglielmo employed? (Two seasons, and he was released of his duties after it became clear his coaching was ineffective here).

 

[ahmed]

I don't like Patricia calling plays when he never did anything much on offense. That said, I would take him over Judge Blowhard everyday!

 

[Ring 6]

How about you cite an article instead of just spewing it?

I don’t need an article to state the fact of hufnagels employment.
I shouldn’t need to find source material to show a pats fan what happened with the pats. If you would like to learn more, do some reading.

 

[Rob0729]

Did DeGuglielmo ever call plays? (No)

For how long was DeGuglielmo employed? (Two seasons, and he was released of his duties after it became clear his coaching was ineffective here).

I don't get the DeGuglielmo argument here. So people are going to argue that because after 22 years as the Patriots head coach with probably several hundred assistants and coordinators who have been on his staff over the years and during that time he has only one major blunder in his staff selections with an offensive line coach. And this is the argument that Belichick can't be trusted with his staffing selections?

 

[crawhammer]

Like I said before, the Pats already have a great QB whisperer in BB

Completely false.

Here's a complete list of every quarterback the "whisperer" has coached as a starter and their records together...

Bernie Kosar... 10-18
Vinny Testaverde... 16-15
Mike Tomczak... 4-4
Todd Philcox... 2-3
Mark Rypien... 2-1
Eric Zeier... 1-3
Drew Bledsoe... 5-13
Tom Brady... 219-64
Matt Cassel... 10-5
Jimmy Garoppolo... 2-0
Jacoby Brissett... 1-1
Cam Newton... 7-8
Brian Hoyer... 0-1
Mac Jones... 10-7

Belichick's combined record with quarterbacks not named Brady... 70-79

List of other quarterbacks drafted by Belichick who never started an NFL game...

Keithen McCant
Rohan Davey
Kliff Kingsbury
Kevin O'Connell
Zac Robinson
Ryan Mallett (8 career starts with other head coaches)
Danny Etling
Jarrett Stidham

Of the combined 21 quarterbacks not named Brady who either started a game for Belichick or were drafted by Belichick (a.k.a. the quarterback whisperer), they combined for 1 fake pro bowl appearance. Brady had 14. Seems like the whisperer magic only has a 5% success rate.

 

[denverpatsfan]

I don't get the DeGuglielmo argument here. So people are going to argue that because after 22 years as the Patriots head coach with probably several hundred assistants and coordinators who have been on his staff over the years and during that time he has only one major blunder in his staff selections with an offensive line coach. And this is the argument that Belichick can't be trusted with his staffing selections?

That feck cost them a playoff game and another Lombardi. So we are still ticked off. Can we blame Matt for the embarrassing SB loss in 2017? So yes only 2 bad selections but they were doozies.

 

[Nehalem]

Completely false.

Here's a complete list of every quarterback the "whisperer" has coached as a starter and their records together...

Bernie Kosar... 10-18
Vinny Testaverde... 16-15
Mike Tomczak... 4-4
Todd Philcox... 2-3
Mark Rypien... 2-1
Eric Zeier... 1-3
Drew Bledsoe... 5-13
Tom Brady... 219-64
Matt Cassel... 10-5
Jimmy Garoppolo... 2-0
Jacoby Brissett... 1-1
Cam Newton... 7-8
Brian Hoyer... 0-1
Mac Jones... 10-7

Belichick's combined record with quarterbacks not named Brady... 70-79

List of other quarterbacks drafted by Belichick who never started an NFL game...

Keithen McCant
Rohan Davey
Kliff Kingsbury
Kevin O'Connell
Zac Robinson
Ryan Mallett (8 career starts with other head coaches)
Danny Etling
Jarrett Stidham

Of the combined 21 quarterbacks not named Brady who either started a game for Belichick or were drafted by Belichick (a.k.a. the quarterback whisperer), they combined for 1 fake pro bowl appearance. Brady had 14. Seems like the whisperer magic only has a 5% success rate.

On the other hand QBs drafted by BB started 5 consecutive SBs

 

[crawhammer]

On the other hand QBs drafted by BB started 5 consecutive SBs

Right, 4 of the 5 were Brady. And the one other guy epically choked.

Also, just pointing it out...

Josh McDaniels in 10 seasons as an OC with Brady the average ranking of his offense was 6th. In 6 seasons as an OC or HC with other quarterbacks the average ranking of his offense was 18th. And the bottom 4 were all non-Brady seasons.

 

[VJCPatriot]

This is what you guys wanted. Not many of you guys cared the retreads of Judge and Patricia were back in the fold. We were hinted this would happen so it's not a surprise.

I can't wait to see that stupid pencil in his ear on the sidelines with Steve making funny faces.

Well it's probably better than seeing Belichick Jr call plays. But think about it, with no OC hire, it was either going to be Patricia or Judge. Judge was in charge of 31st place Giants offense for 2 years in a row. Even though Patricia's specialty was defense before, probably not as bad as having Judge call the plays. LOL

The only good news I've heard is that reportedly the Pats are simplifying their terminology and updating their offense to eliminate the fullback and use more WRs for other purposes. I'm thinking Jet sweep, RPOs, etc. We might see our offense improve simply because the players understand better how to run it and the system is modernized even if our playcaller, assuming it's Patricia, is a novice.

 

[Ring 6]

Completely false.

Here's a complete list of every quarterback the "whisperer" has coached as a starter and their records together...

Bernie Kosar... 10-18
Vinny Testaverde... 16-15
Mike Tomczak... 4-4
Todd Philcox... 2-3
Mark Rypien... 2-1
Eric Zeier... 1-3
Drew Bledsoe... 5-13
Tom Brady... 219-64
Matt Cassel... 10-5
Jimmy Garoppolo... 2-0
Jacoby Brissett... 1-1
Cam Newton... 7-8
Brian Hoyer... 0-1
Mac Jones... 10-7

Belichick's combined record with quarterbacks not named Brady... 70-79

List of other quarterbacks drafted by Belichick who never started an NFL game...

Keithen McCant
Rohan Davey
Kliff Kingsbury
Kevin O'Connell
Zac Robinson
Ryan Mallett (8 career starts with other head coaches)
Danny Etling
Jarrett Stidham

Of the combined 21 quarterbacks not named Brady who either started a game for Belichick or were drafted by Belichick (a.k.a. the quarterback whisperer), they combined for 1 fake pro bowl appearance. Brady had 14. Seems like the whisperer magic only has a 5% success rate.

Why do you remove Brady? Belichick coached him, in fact more closely than any of the others.

 

[Ring 6]

Right, 4 of the 5 were Brady. And the one other guy epically choked.

Also, just pointing it out...

Josh McDaniels in 10 seasons as an OC with Brady the average ranking of his offense was 6th. In 6 seasons as an OC or HC with other quarterbacks the average ranking of his offense was 18th. And the bottom 4 were all non-Brady seasons.

You expect him to do better with cam Newton or Sam Bradford than Tom Brady?

 

[Kasmir]

Completely false.

Here's a complete list of every quarterback the "whisperer" has coached as a starter and their records together...

Bernie Kosar... 10-18
Vinny Testaverde... 16-15
Mike Tomczak... 4-4
Todd Philcox... 2-3
Mark Rypien... 2-1
Eric Zeier... 1-3
Drew Bledsoe... 5-13
Tom Brady... 219-64
Matt Cassel... 10-5
Jimmy Garoppolo... 2-0
Jacoby Brissett... 1-1
Cam Newton... 7-8
Brian Hoyer... 0-1
Mac Jones... 10-7

Belichick's combined record with quarterbacks not named Brady... 70-79

List of other quarterbacks drafted by Belichick who never started an NFL game...

Keithen McCant
Rohan Davey
Kliff Kingsbury
Kevin O'Connell
Zac Robinson
Ryan Mallett (8 career starts with other head coaches)
Danny Etling
Jarrett Stidham

Of the combined 21 quarterbacks not named Brady who either started a game for Belichick or were drafted by Belichick (a.k.a. the quarterback whisperer), they combined for 1 fake pro bowl appearance. Brady had 14. Seems like the whisperer magic only has a 5% success rate.

Besides Mac last year, Matt Cassel was a Pro Bowl alternate at KC and played in the game.

Kingsbury and O'Connell are now NFL head coaches. Looks like they learned something from BB.

 

[venecol]

Besides Mac last year, Matt Cassel was a Pro Bowl alternate at KC and played in the game.

Kingsbury and O'Connell are now NFL head coaches. Looks like they learned something from BB.

Kingsbury & O'Connell are smart guys. Kingsbury spent one season in the PS at NE. His college coaching record is .467 and NFL record is .490, he's over rated as a coach and isn't part of Belichick's coaching tree.

O'Connell also spent just one season with the Pats losing out to Hoyer as a back-up. We don't know how he'll do as a HC but he's also not from Belichick's tree.

Point is Belichick has never been known as a QB whisperer. He's one of the best D minds in the NFL and probably the Goat HC. Kingsbury is more of a QB whisperer than Bill.

 

[Patsgofor4]

FWIW, Lombardi “isn’t buying it” (Patricia calling plays). His guess is Judge. Discussion starts at 25 min mark.

The GM Shuffle with Michael Lombardi and Femi Abebefe: Deshaun Watson can't play for the Browns this season, Matt Patricia won't call plays for the Patriots & the top ten coaches in the NFL on Apple Podcasts

Show The GM Shuffle with Michael Lombardi and Femi Abebefe, Ep Deshaun Watson can't play for the Browns this season, Matt Patricia won't call plays for the Patriots & the top ten coaches in the NFL - Jun 9, 2022

podcasts.apple.com

 

[crawhammer]

Why do you remove Brady? Belichick coached him, in fact more closely than any of the others.

Because Brady is the exception. He's the only quarterback Belichick has ever had success with, granted the success spanned two decades and included 6 Super Bowl titles. But the fact remains Belichick has a decisively losing record with all of his other quarterbacks combined.

You expect him to do better with cam Newton or Sam Bradford than Tom Brady?

I don't expect that but I was responding to someone calling a Belichick a "quarterback whisperer" which is absurd. Belichick has coached or drafted and coached 22 quarterbacks. Exactly one of them can be called successful as an NFL quarterback (Brady). That's literally a 4.5% success rate, which obviously is very poor.

Besides Mac last year, Matt Cassel was a Pro Bowl alternate at KC and played in the game.

Mac was the 7th alternate replacement. Cassel had a different head coach when he played in that one pro bowl. Brady threw 50 TD passes in 2007. With the same offense and a different quarterback (Cassel), the 2008 Patriots threw 21 TD passes, which is a 58% decrease in production.

Kingsbury and O'Connell are now NFL head coaches. Looks like they learned something from BB.

They learned they weren't NFL caliber quarterbacks. Kingsbury never played a snap for the Patriots and he had very limited exposure to Belichick. Kingsbury also had an 11-year coaching career in college before landing the head coaching job in Arizona. Belichick gets 0% credit for Kingsbury's development as an NFL head coach.

O'Connell had 6 pass attempts in one season with the Patriots before his NFL career was over. He worked with 4 different franchises before landing the head coaching job in Minnesota. He also never coached under Belichick who here again gets 0% credit for O'Connell's development as an NFL head coach.

 

[Patsgofor4]

Kingsbury is more of a QB whisperer than Bill.

 

[moosekill]

So we put in qb's who came in for injured/suspended qb's and count their stats, we include qb's in the first year of BIll taking over a team? In my mind you count Vinnie T, Brady, Cassel, Newton and Jones. Bill did all he could when he took over Kosar and Bledsoe to get rid of them as soon as possible, but they were both already under contract. So 262-99, if you throw out Brady, because he was so damn good he didn't need a coach, 43-35, which includes, VInnie with the team leaving town, Cassel with his first start full season since high school, Cam who didn't have an attached arm, and Mac in his rookie season.