PFF says Pats should blow it up and tank in 2021

[patsfanincleveland]

I sort of get it, but weren't they free agents they decided not to resign, not players they had to cut? They could have resigned anyone of those players with a modest 2020 cap hit. Even Van Noy and Collins seem like the usual Patriots decision to le players move on once they become free agents. The Pats have been doing that forever. The Pats had at least 25 million in cap space going into 2020. They just decided to give it all to McCourty and Thuney. And they could have extended Brady and the 13 million cap hit would have been over 2 years instead of all in 2020.

I guess, I see going all in differently than you and it means signing all your stars while knowing you will pay the price 2-3 years from now by being over the cap by a decent amount and having to unload salary, not being under the cap and letting free agents move on. Tampa Bay currently is about 25 million under the cap with plans to sign most of their free agents and those free agents will be a lot more pricey that the list of Pats free agents above. If they do so or even come close to it, that will be going all in.

Based on this post , it seems like you kinda think a team should kinda over-spend while their team is in the window and then after, deal with dead cap money.

It's unfortunate you weren't awake the past 7 years.

Also, "They just decided to give it all to McCourty and Thuney". You think that decision was randomly pulled from a hat? Landed on a roulette wheel? A Fatima event?

Why would they "just do that"?

 

[Ring 6]

I sort of get it, but weren't they free agents they decided not to resign, not players they had to cut? They could have resigned anyone of those players with a modest 2020 cap hit. Even Van Noy and Collins seem like the usual Patriots decision to le players move on once they become free agents. The Pats have been doing that forever. The Pats had at least 25 million in cap space going into 2020. They just decided to give it all to McCourty and Thuney. And they could have extended Brady and the 13 million cap hit would have been over 2 years instead of all in 2020.

I guess, I see going all in differently than you and it means signing all your stars while knowing you will pay the price 2-3 years from now by being over the cap by a decent amount and having to unload salary, not being under the cap and letting free agents move on. Tampa Bay currently is about 25 million under the cap with plans to sign most of their free agents and those free agents will be a lot more pricey that the list of Pats free agents above. If they do so or even come close to it, that will be going all in.

I’m not sure what your point is.
They did not have 25 million.
They had to let a lot of players leave because they couldn’t afford them.

Im not sure why you see a difference between not being able to keep players who’s contract are up vs cutting players who aren’t. There isn’t any difference.
They made decisions that helped the cap from 2014-2019 and paid the price in 2020. That’s really not disputable.

 

[skinnydog]

I’m not sure what your point is.
They did not have 25 million.
They had to let a lot of players leave because they couldn’t afford them.

Im not sure why you see a difference between not being able to keep players who’s contract are up vs cutting players who aren’t. There isn’t any difference.
They made decisions that helped the cap from 2014-2019 and paid the price in 2020. That’s really not disputable.

I'm not sure why you don't grasp the difference. The Pats have been making similar decisions going back to the early 2000s. They didn't change their practice in 2014-2019. And yes, they had 25 million before they tagged Thuney for about 15 million and gave 10 million to McCourtney.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

I'm not sure why you don't grasp the difference. The Pats have been making similar decisions going back to the early 2000s. They didn't change their practice in 2014-2019. And yes, they had 25 million before they tagged Thuney for about 15 million and gave 10 million to McCourtney.

So your whole premise is the Patriots should play football without guards or safeties.

 

[skinnydog]

Based on this post , it seems like you kinda think a team should kinda over-spend while their team is in the window and then after, deal with dead cap money.

It's unfortunate you weren't awake the past 7 years.

Also, "They just decided to give it all to McCourty and Thuney". You think that decision was randomly pulled from a hat? Landed on a roulette wheel? A Fatima event?

Why would they "just do that"?

Thanks for waking me up. Paying Thuney just under 15 million is just hard to justify. They ended up with about 12% of the cap tied up in just their 2 guards. Since you've been awake the past 7 years please fill me in on all of the going all in moves the Pats have made. They've always ended up spending basically to the cap year in and year out. They've always criticized teams spending more as being financially irresponsible or that they were smart enough to always move on from players a year early than a year late. I never said, as some do, that they are cheap. They just ever said we have a 3 year window and need to go all in. But then they have not needed to because of Brady.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

I’m not sure what your point is.
They did not have 25 million.
They had to let a lot of players leave because they couldn’t afford them.

Im not sure why you see a difference between not being able to keep players who’s contract are up vs cutting players who aren’t. There isn’t any difference.
They made decisions that helped the cap from 2014-2019 and paid the price in 2020. That’s really not disputable.

If it's on patsfans it's disputable.

Wait till you debate the existence of gravity with them.

 

[skinnydog]

So your whole premise is the Patriots should play football without guards or safeties.

Yeah, that’s exactly what I said.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Thanks for waking me up. Paying Thuney just under 15 million is just hard to justify. They ended up with about 12% of the cap tied up in just their 2 guards. Since you've been awake the past 7 years please fill me in on all of the going all in moves the Pats have made. They've always ended up spending basically to the cap year in and year out. They've always criticized teams spending more as being financially irresponsible or that they were smart enough to always move on from players a year early than a year late. I never said, as some do, that they are cheap. They just ever said we have a 3 year window and need to go all in. But then they have not needed to because of Brady.

Paying Thuney $15 million is easy to justify. I'm not exactly sure why that's not obvious.

As far as the rest of this post, I have absolutely no idea what you are saying.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not sure why you don't grasp the difference. The Pats have been making similar decisions going back to the early 2000s. They didn't change their practice in 2014-2019. And yes, they had 25 million before they tagged Thuney for about 15 million and gave 10 million to McCourtney.

How many times are you going to get that wrong? McCourty cap hit was 5 mill. So they could afford to keep 2 of their players.

And yes they changed there practices, they have never been in a position to lose so many players without any chance to keep them, they have never opened up over 60,000,000 of cap space. I think it was 2018 where the cap was so tight that there was a time where they had to short the practice squad. They have been forestalling this for years. Sorry you weren’t paying attention.

 

[Ring 6]

Thanks for waking me up. Paying Thuney just under 15 million is just hard to justify. They ended up with about 12% of the cap tied up in just their 2 guards. Since you've been awake the past 7 years please fill me in on all of the going all in moves the Pats have made. They've always ended up spending basically to the cap year in and year out. They've always criticized teams spending more as being financially irresponsible or that they were smart enough to always move on from players a year early than a year late. I never said, as some do, that they are cheap. They just ever said we have a 3 year window and need to go all in. But then they have not needed to because of Brady.

What are you talking about?
how can they have always criticized teams spending more than the cap when you literally cannot spend more than the cap. But by all means, please please show me where “they” have criticized the front offices of other teams for how they run them. I’d love to see where you get that from.

So let me explain to you how this works.
McCourty didn’t count 10 million on the cap on his 10 mill a year contract because the cap hits vary throughout a contract BASED UPON HOW THEY STRUCTURE THE CONTRACT.
So for example I can afford 2 players at $5 mill on one year contracts with the same current cap space that I could pay 1 players 5 years 100 mill with a 40,000,000 signing bonus. But in the next 4 years it is very different.
I could also sign 2 players each at 5 years 40 mill with 20 mill signing bonus each.
Or I could sign 6 guys at 5 years 20 mill each with 4 mill in Sb. Each.

There are many ways to structure the cap and some of them are to sign players who’s cap numbers are very low in the first or early years but go up and carry dead money if they are released later.
The Patriots moved much farther toward pushing cap space into the future from 2014-2019 than they ever had before.

 

[venecol]

They can do it all this year.
Draft a qb, trade for or sign he best one you can get and spend the rest of the picks and cap filling all the holes.
They have the resources to upgrade half of the starting positions as well as half of more of the rest of the roster.

You're dreaming if you think they "can do it all this year." Way too many holes to fill plus we DON'T HAVE A QB!

I guess we'll see what magic BB the GM pulls this year.

 

[skinnydog]

If it's on patsfans it's disputable.

Wait till you debate the existence of gravity with them.

How many times are you going to get that wrong? McCourty cap hit was 5 mill. So they could afford to keep 2 of their players.

And yes they changed there practices, they have never been in a position to lose so many players without any chance to keep them, they have never opened up over 60,000,000 of cap space. I think it was 2018 where the cap was so tight that there was a time where they had to short the practice squad. They have been forestalling this for years. Sorry you weren’t paying attention.

And after the McCourty and the Thuney cap move they were 5 million under the cap without reworking anyone else which they could have done if they wanted to free up cap space. And my bad on the McCourty cap hit but my basic point was they were under the cap. Oh and I must have been thinking of the McCourty brothers as 1 person because they gave Jason a new contract with a cap hit of just over 4 million which was pretty much a luxury signing given the depth the team had a cornerback.

 

[skinnydog]

What are you talking about?
how can they have always criticized teams spending more than the cap when you literally cannot spend more than the cap. But by all means, please please show me where “they” have criticized the front offices of other teams for how they run them. I’d love to see where you get that from.

So let me explain to you how this works.
McCourty didn’t count 10 million on the cap on his 10 mill a year contract because the cap hits vary throughout a contract BASED UPON HOW THEY STRUCTURE THE CONTRACT.
So for example I can afford 2 players at $5 mill on one year contracts with the same current cap space that I could pay 1 players 5 years 100 mill with a 40,000,000 signing bonus. But in the next 4 years it is very different.
I could also sign 2 players each at 5 years 40 mill with 20 mill signing bonus each.
Or I could sign 6 guys at 5 years 20 mill each with 4 mill in Sb. Each.

There are many ways to structure the cap and some of them are to sign players who’s cap numbers are very low in the first or early years but go up and carry dead money if they are released later.
The Patriots moved much farther toward pushing cap space into the future from 2014-2019 than they ever had before.

Seriously, you really incapable of understanding the concept of going all in. And the pats were pretty much in the middle of the pack in the NFL in terms of pushing cap space into the future.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

How many times are you going to get that wrong? McCourty cap hit was 5 mill. So they could afford to keep 2 of their players.

And yes they changed there practices, they have never been in a position to lose so many players without any chance to keep them, they have never opened up over 60,000,000 of cap space. I think it was 2018 where the cap was so tight that there was a time where they had to short the practice squad. They have been forestalling this for years. Sorry you weren’t paying attention.

So like ya mean like Belichick initiated a strategy that borrowed cap in the years 2014-2019 to like go to the Super Bowl 4 years and win 3 and then

used 2020 to clear dead cap and then like the Patriots wind up with a lot more available cap than many other teams just as most other teams are in

cap hell so we can acquire players both short and long term at great prices.......all while the rebuild was to take place?

If patsfans didn't tell us Belichick was so incompetent, one would think this was planned.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Seriously, you really incapable of understanding the concept of going all in. And the pats were pretty much in the middle of the pack in the NFL in terms of pushing cap space into the future.

You do realize that he is a fan of a team that just recently won three Super Bowls?

 

[skinnydog]

So like ya mean like Belichick initiated a strategy that borrowed cap in the years 2014-2019 to like go to the Super Bowl 4 years and win 3 and then

used 2020 to clear dead cap and then like the Patriots wind up with a lot more available cap than many other teams just as most other teams are in

cap hell so we can acquire players both short and long term at great prices.......all while the rebuild was to take place?

If patsfans didn't tell us Belichick was so incompetent, one would think this was planned.

No he didn't borrow against the cap to win those 3 Superbowls. Teams have dead cap space every year. It is not some unique situation. And yes you can spend above the cap for several years in a row. In terms of cash spending, in the '15. '16, '17. and '18 seasons, the Patriots were 23 of 32 teams over that time period. So no Bill simply did not borrow against the future cap to pay for the success of winning Superbowls. In fact, the Pats spent less on player salaries than most teams spent over the course of their last 3 trips to the Super Bowl. Look that's not necessarily a bad thing. Throwing money around does not guarantee success, but the numbers say the pats spent less than most. The data is in the article linked below.

CBA Suggestion Number 4: Raise League Wide and Team Minimum Spending Requirements | Over the Cap

 

[skinnydog]

Back on topic for this thread. No Bill simply won't blow it up in 2021. That's not who he is and at his age he really doesn't have time for that. Also, if he can recall the magic of his 2001 and 2003 off season signings, the Pats will be pretty good this year.

 

[PatsDeb]

Nah, we already did our version of tanking this year. Onward and upward!

 

[Ring 6]

You're dreaming if you think they "can do it all this year." Way too many holes to fill plus we DON'T HAVE A QB!

I guess we'll see what magic BB the GM pulls this year.

We have cap space to upgrade half the roster. How long improving a team takes is a function of resources not time.

 

[Ring 6]

Seriously, you really incapable of understanding the concept of going all in. And the pats were pretty much in the middle of the pack in the NFL in terms of pushing cap space into the future.

Going to 8 straight conf champ games, 4 sbs and winning 3 is about as all in as it gets.