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If you don't have Butler making the team you're doing it wrong. By far & the only true IDL rusher we have.

I love when IDL can take advantage of the space created post snap & he does just that.
 
I can't seem to settle on mine. But here is a name to watch. LB Nicholas Grigsby. He has played in a lot of STs units for the Patriots IIRC.

I don't know if they want to carry another STs guy or not, but if they do he is the one who sneaks on.
 
Updating my 53 after the Panthers game...

QB (2) T.Brady, B.Hoyer
RB (6) R.Burkhead, J.Hill, J.White, S.Michel, B.Bolden, J.Develin
WR (6) C.Hogan, P.Dorsett, C.Patterson, R.McCarron, D.Lucien, M.Slater
TE (3) R.Gronkowski, D.Allen, J.Hollister
C (2) D.Andrews, T.Karras
G (3) S.Mason, J.Thuney, M.Tobin
T (3) T.Brown, M.Cannon, L.Waddle
DE (5) T.Flowers, A.Clayborn, D.Wise, D.Rivers, K.Davis
DT (4) D.Shelton, L.Guy, M.Brown, A.Butler
ILB(3) D.Hightower, J.Bentley, C.Sam
OLB(2) K.VanNoy, M.Flowers
CB (6) S.Gilmore, E.Rowe, J.Jones, D.Dawson, J.Jackson, K.Crossen
SS (3) P.Chung, E.Pleasant, N.Ebner
FS (2) D.McCourty, D.Harmon
ST (3) S.Gostkowski, R.Allen, J.Cardona

Total players: 53
Created with Pats Picker: Pats Picker 2018

- replace C.Croston with M.Tobin
- replace V.Valentine with A.Butler
- replace J.McCourty with K.Crossen
 
Post-Panther Prediction:
(This version isn't close to what I would do, naturally; this is what I believe the Emperor might do.)

QB (2) T.Brady, B.Hoyer

RB (6) J.Hill, J.White, J.Develin, R.Burkhead, S.Michel, B.Bolden

WR (4) C.Hogan, P.Dorsett, C.Patterson, B.Berrios

TE (3) R.Gronkowski, D.Allen, J.Hollister

C (2) D.Andrews, B.Schwenke
G (3) S.Mason, J.Thuney, T.Karras
T (4) T.Brown, M.Cannon, L.Waddle, C.Croston

DE (4) T.Flowers, A.Clayborn, D.Wise, D.Rivers
DT (4) M.Brown, D.Shelton, L.Guy, A.Butler

ILB(3) D.Hightower, J.Bentley, E.Roberts
OLB(3) K.VanNoy, M.Flowers, C.Sam

CB (6) S.Gilmore, E.Rowe, J.McCourty, D.Dawson, J.Jones, K.Crossen

SS (3) P.Chung, N.Ebner, J.Richards
FS (2) D.McCourty, D.Harmon

ST (4) S.Gostkowski, R.Allen, J.Cardona, Slater

Total players: 53
Created with Pats Picker: Pats Picker 2018
 
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QB (2) T.Brady, B.Hoyer
RB (4) J.White, R.Burkhead*, S.Michel ..... [B.Bolden]
FB (1) J.Develin*
WR (4) C.Hogan, P.Dorsett, C.Patterson(KR)* ..... [M.Slater]
TE (3) R.Gronkowski, D.Allen, J.Hollister*

C (2) D.Andrews, T.Karras(OG)
G (2) S.Mason, J.Thuney
T (4) T.Brown, M.Cannon, L.Waddle, C.Croston(OG)

DE (5) T.Flowers, A.Clayborn, D.Wise, D.Rivers, K.Davis
DT (4) M.Brown, D.Shelton, L.Guy*, A.Butler
ILB(4) D.Hightower, J.Bentley, E.Roberts ..... [N.Grigsby]
OLB(2) K.VanNoy ..... [B.King]
CB (6) S.Gilmore, E.Rowe, J.Jones*, D.Dawson, R.Lewis ..... [K.Crossen]
SS (3) P.Chung* ..... [J.Richards, N.Ebner]
FS (2) D.McCourty*, D.Harmon
ST (3) S.Gostkowski, R.Allen, J.Cardona

Total players: 51 (TWO OPEN SPOTS)
Created with Pats Picker: Pats Picker 2018
__________

Players in [brackets] are special teams specialists/dire emergency reserves.
Players with (*) have typically contributed to at least two ST units on a regular basis in the past.
-----

RB - I'm honestly not certain anymore that either of Hill or Gillislee are really acceptable, although I'm pretty sure that the Pats will keep Hill as insurance, at least until Michel is healthy. Don't want a repeat of 2015.

WR - If the Pats keep another WR as insurance while Edelman is out, my guess would be McCarron, if only because he's healthy (and seems to be fairly durable - he got up after hanging onto a hospital ball), and way cheaper than Decker as a "placeholder". Berrios might be headed to IR.

OL - At OC/OG backup, it could be Schwenke instead of Karras. I'm guessing that they also keep one of John or Tobin as a backup OT. I'm just not sure which.

DE - I really don't think that Pats want to lose Davis, whether he plays ST or not.

OLB - M.Flowers hasn't really shown very much at all in scrimmage, or on ST. Something of a hole at OLB, then, although HT can obviously play OLB .

CB - Seems to me that Crossen has the potential to be an excellent STer, at the very least, with possibly a higher ceiling at CB than Jon Jones (who's very good). I think he's a keeper.
..... Lewis - I'm not entirely sure about. I feel like he's ahead of JC Jackson and Cy Jones in coverage skills. But Jackson may be a bit better on ST right now, and may have as much potential as Lewis, long term. And Cy Jones offers at least some return skills and doesn't appear to be horrible in coverage. Hopefully, the #5 CB doesn't see the field much at all, so Lewis may be sufficiently redundant to be trade-bait, thus leaving a spot open for either Jackson or CJ. IDK - still up in the air for me.

SS - I'm no more comfortable with Richards continuing to back up Chung than anyone else is, but ... it is what it is. OTOH, in Harmon's first couple seasons, his nickel-safety duties were more SS than deep coverage safety, and he did well there. So, finding another backup deep-coverage DB might be as useful as finding a better SS backup than Richards.
... Also, Grigsby apparently played a hybrid SS/LB "star" role at Pitt, so there's that as an option - or even Christian Sam, I suppose. The ability to fill the role is more important than the positional designation, IMHO.


BTW - It seems likely to me that a couple roster moves could be made beginning as early as Monday, e.g., if veterans like JMac and/or Decker are going to be released anyway, it would probably be early as a matter of courtesy. And, it wouldn't be entirely shocking (though sad, wrt JMac).
 
QB (3) T.Brady, QB Agent, D.Etling
RB (6) R.Burkhead, S.Michel, J.White, J.Hill, B.Bolden, J.Develin
WR (6) C.Hogan, C.Patterson, M.Slater, R.McCarron, D.Lucien, P.Dorsett
TE (2) J.Hollister, R.Gronkowski
C (2) D.Andrews, B.Schwenke
G (3) S.Mason, J.Thuney, T.Karras
T (4) Free Agent, T.Brown, C.Croston, M.Cannon
DE (4) T.Flowers, A.Clayborn, G.Grissom, D.Wise
DT (4) M.Brown, D.Shelton, V.Valentine, L.Guy
ILB(3) D.Hightower, J.Bentley, E.Roberts
OLB(3) M.Flowers, B.King, K.VanNoy
CB (5) S.Gilmore, E.Rowe, J.McCourty, C.Jones, D.Dawson
SS (3) N.Ebner, D.Travis, P.Chung
FS (2) D.McCourty, D.Harmon
ST (3) S.Gostkowski, R.Allen, J.Cardona
Total players: 53
Created with Pats Picker: Pats Picker 2018

Belichick usually has a couple of late additions - my guess is a backup QB and a Tackle.

Gillislee is trade bait - just not versatile enough on a deep RB corps

I think Waddle may have played his way out of here.

I think Dwayne Allen is a cap casualty and Decker is toast.
 
In terms of the OL: no one thinks any of Ferentz, Tobin, John, Schwenke, or Bowanko will make it? Just curious.

Maybe John.. but definitely no Bowanko. He went on the field for one snap, got a penalty and was promptly yanked.
 
In terms of the OL: no one thinks any of Ferentz, Tobin, John, Schwenke, or Bowanko will make it? Just curious.

Possibly Tobin or John, but I'd also like to hear people's opinions on this.
 
In terms of the OL: no one thinks any of Ferentz, Tobin, John, Schwenke, or Bowanko will make it? Just curious.

Actually, Schwenke may have a decent chance at beating out Karras for backup OC/OG. He has decent size (6030/~320), and his athleticism is on par with that of Mason and Thuney (better than Karras). IIRC, the Pats had shown interest in him prior to the 2013 draft.

Ferentz is pretty much the same size as Andrews (6025/290) and pretty much limited to Center. Positional versatility is kind of a must for OL backups on the 53-man. He's also been on the PS for two seasons. It seems to me that, if he was going to beat out Karras for a backup OC role, it would have happened before this.

I think the Pats are likely to keep one of John or Tobin, in addition to Croston(OG/OT) and Waddle, as a backup OT. John may be the Pats preference at this point.

Bowanko I don't really know much about.
 
I suspect that we will carry a PR. My choice is Cy Jones, who is of some use on special teams. Given Edelman's injury history, I wouldn't even want him returning punts when he comes back.

We regularly use 3 corners and 3 safeties. We need a backup at both. We also carry Ebner as a safety. That totals 9. I agree that we expect a 5th corner to get much action, except perhaps if he is the top backup at nickel, and there is an injury. I wouldn't even expect him to be active unless he is on several special team units. The 5th corner is the 10th defensive back (including Ebner AND Richards).

DEFESNIVE BACKS (10)
CB: Gilmore, Rowe, Dawson, #4,#5
S: McCourty, Chung, Harmon
ST: Richards, Ebner

I see no reason for an 11th DB. As you say, the position could be taken by a LB. However, it is certainly possible that a developmental 6th corner could be one of the last 2 roster spots.



CB (6) S.Gilmore, E.Rowe, J.Jones*, D.Dawson, R.Lewis ..... [K.Crossen]
SS (3) P.Chung* ..... [J.Richards, N.Ebner]
FS (2) D.McCourty*, D.Harmon

CB - Seems to me that Crossen has the potential to be an excellent STer, at the very least, with possibly a higher ceiling at CB than Jon Jones (who's very good). I think he's a keeper.
..... Lewis - I'm not entirely sure about. I feel like he's ahead of JC Jackson and Cy Jones in coverage skills. But Jackson may be a bit better on ST right now, and may have as much potential as Lewis, long term. And Cy Jones offers at least some return skills and doesn't appear to be horrible in coverage. Hopefully, the #5 CB doesn't see the field much at all, so Lewis may be sufficiently redundant to be trade-bait, thus leaving a spot open for either Jackson or CJ. IDK - still up in the air for me.

SS - I'm no more comfortable with Richards continuing to back up Chung than anyone else is, but ... it is what it is. OTOH, in Harmon's first couple seasons, his nickel-safety duties were more SS than deep coverage safety, and he did well there. So, finding another backup deep-coverage DB might be as useful as finding a better SS backup than Richards.
... Also, Grigsby apparently played a hybrid SS/LB "star" role at Pitt, so there's that as an option - or even Christian Sam, I suppose. The ability to fill the role is more important than the positional designation, IMHO.


BTW - It seems likely to me that a couple roster moves could be made beginning as early as Monday, e.g., if veterans like JMac and/or Decker are going to be released anyway, it would probably be early as a matter of courtesy. And, it wouldn't be entirely shocking (though sad, wrt JMac).
 
I suspect that we will carry a PR. My choice is Cy Jones, who is of some use on special teams. Given Edelman's injury history, I wouldn't even want him returning punts when he comes back.

We regularly use 3 corners and 3 safeties. We need a backup at both. We also carry Ebner as a safety. That totals 9. I agree that we expect a 5th corner to get much action, except perhaps if he is the top backup at nickel, and there is an injury. I wouldn't even expect him to be active unless he is on several special team units. The 5th corner is the 10th defensive back (including Ebner AND Richards).

DEFESNIVE BACKS (10)
CB: Gilmore, Rowe, Dawson, #4,#5
S: McCourty, Chung, Harmon
ST: Richards, Ebner

I see no reason for an 11th DB. As you say, the position could be taken by a LB. However, it is certainly possible that a developmental 6th corner could be one of the last 2 roster spots.

I am hoping that the trio D.Dawson, J.Jackson, K.Crossen help replace the ST superstar J.Richards (rolls eyes).
 
At that depth of the roster, it probably comes down to ST ability and, possibly, developmental potential.

I have suggested that Hollister might get one of these ST/developmental spots. Others have suggested Grisby or Jackson or J Jones or C Jones. King and Richards are two of the incumbents.
 
I have suggested that Hollister might get one of these ST/developmental spots. Others have suggested Grisby or Jackson or J Jones or C Jones. King and Richards are two of the incumbents.

Hollister was a regular contributor on 2-3 ST units in the second half of last season, only being left off the 46-man roster in the regular season one time. If his receiving has improved even half as much as much as the mediots seem to want us to think, I'd guess he'll again be part of the 46 most weeks.
 
Not a lot of changes this week for my projection.

QB (2): 12 Brady, 2 Hoyer
RB (5): 28 White, 34 Burkhead, 33 Hill, 29 Michel, 38 Bolden
FB (1): 46 Develin
WR (4): 15 Hogan, 13 Dorsett, 84 Patterson, 17 McCarron
TE (3): 87 Gronkowski, 83 Allen, 47 Hollister
OL (8): 77 Brown, 62 Thuney, 60 Andrews, 69 Mason, 61 Cannon, 75 Karras, 68 Waddle, 64 Tobin
DL (4): 71 Shelton, 93 Guy, 90 Brown, 70 Butler
EDGE (5): 98 Flowers, 94 Clayborn, 91 Wise, 95 Rivers, 58 Davis
LB (5): 54 Hightower, 53 Van Noy, 51 Bentley, 52 Roberts, 50 Grigsby
CB (6): 24 Gilmore, 25 Rowe, 31 Jones, 30 McCourty, 41 Jones, 42 Dawson
S (4): 32 McCourty, 23 Chung, 21 Harmon, 37 Richards
ST (6): 3 Gostkowski, 6 Allen, 49 Cardona, 18 Slater, 43 Ebner, 36 King

  • Hoyer sucks now. I was his biggest fan up until recently but he's undeniably bad. Just praying it's a Matt Cassel 08 situation. Pretty sure I said this exact thing last week. The worst part is watching opposing scrub QBs look competent while we're on defense, especially when we let them go from our own PS.
  • McCarron should not be on this roster. I really want to see that spot filled by someone not presently on the roster. Decker is worse than I thought was possible. This WR group might be better than 2006/2013 as far as starters go (which is hardly a compliment), but what happens if and when someone gets hurt? The situation seems to get worse every week. I fear what we'll be looking at in another week.
  • I don't think Croston has been impressive enough to justify keeping a 5th interior OL over a 4th tackle given how suspect Waddle has been with regards to both health and play. I know Croston played tackle previously, but it doesn't appear that the Patriots are interested in putting him there right now. I really don't know the difference between Tobin and John but I've read marginally better things about Tobin from posters here, so we'll go with him.
  • Grissom is looking more and more like a player who will find a way onto the 53 at one point or another this season. Just not sure if it's immediately.
  • Grigsby takes the spot from M. Flowers. Flowers has lost his role on defense, and he was traded here because he was unhappy with his playing time in CIN. I don't think he stays under these conditions. Plus, Grigsby just looks better right now.
  • Cornerback position looks more promising despite the continued disappointing play of JMac. There's too many question marks after the top 3 (24, 25, 31) for me to say they'll cut someone with that kind of experience and chemistry. I think Cyrus Jones has won the punt returner job and therefore a spot on the roster. He might also be just as good a corner as any of the other young guys (Jackson, Lewis, Crossen). This is the kind of situation I wish we had at WR. None of those players might work out, but they at least give reason to be hopeful.
  • The only way Richards doesn't make it is if they find someone who's currently on another roster.
  • Players I suspect could be traded: Gillislee, Hollister (remember A.J. Derby?), Mason, M. Brown, Flowers (either one), Roberts
 
Post-Panther Prediction:
(This version isn't close to what I would do, naturally; this is what I believe the Emperor might do.)

QB (2) T.Brady, B.Hoyer

RB (6) J.Hill, J.White, J.Develin, R.Burkhead, S.Michel, B.Bolden

WR (4) C.Hogan, P.Dorsett, C.Patterson, B.Berrios

TE (3) R.Gronkowski, D.Allen, J.Hollister

C (2) D.Andrews, B.Schwenke
G (3) S.Mason, J.Thuney, T.Karras
T (4) T.Brown, M.Cannon, L.Waddle, C.Croston

DE (4) T.Flowers, A.Clayborn, D.Wise, D.Rivers
DT (4) M.Brown, D.Shelton, L.Guy, A.Butler

ILB(3) D.Hightower, J.Bentley, E.Roberts
OLB(3) K.VanNoy, M.Flowers, C.Sam

CB (6) S.Gilmore, E.Rowe, J.McCourty, D.Dawson, J.Jones, K.Crossen

SS (3) P.Chung, N.Ebner, J.Richards
FS (2) D.McCourty, D.Harmon

ST (4) S.Gostkowski, R.Allen, J.Cardona, Slater

Total players: 53
Created with Pats Picker: Pats Picker 2018

Gee! No Grissom?
I do have a Doomsday/Total ****** version in which GeeNo replaces Marquis Flowers or Christian Sam, and Thanksdad Ferentz replaces Brian Schwenke.
 
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