PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

What did the Patriots just lose? How Belichick got here.


upstater1

Hall of Fame Poster
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
26,461
Reaction score
16,645
Don't read if you hate long stuff, but this is why Belichick is different for me, and why we lost something that I can only hope is retained if Mayo or Vrabel can mine it.

What Belichick brought and what may be lost:

1. Roster construction emphasized depth over star power. I'm not a football genius, I never coached it even if I did play it. I am however the type of person who annoys people at football games by yelling "penalty illegal formation" before the refs throw the flag. People next to me have commented that I pay too much attention to the LOS. I do. I have coached soccer, and the one thing we always talk about is this: find the weak link, or links. Let's keep play in their area. Likewise, in football, there are 22 players on the field. When there are injuries or bottom of the roster players making league minimum and they are your starters because you're top heavy on salary, you're showing your weakness week after week. For instance, LT on this year's Patriots team. QB is the most important position in all of sports, but there are still 10 other guys out there. Belichick was ruthless in his exploitation of weak links. No mercy. You may say every coach does that, but they don't. Coaches believe in their "systems." I don't think Belichick is that kind of coach. He was super flexible. He wasn't running the same stuff out there like a Tomlin. Once he figured out how to beat you, and where to exploit you, he changed the strategy to do exactly that. But this was only possible if he had a competent roster 1-53. How else was he supposed to make the adjustments? Think of it this way: if Belichick has to rely on Vederian Lowe, he loses. But if he has to rely on Myles Bryant, he wins. Bryant will end up making a lot more money in New England than he will anywhere else. And what happen when players like, for instance, Tedy Bruschi know they have a chance to develop here beyond being a situational pass rusher (in the Carroll era)? They make a career, they work harder, that becomes infectious. Elsewhere Bruschi would've spent his entire career as drinking game fodder. It's not just Bruschi that benefited from a chance to develop and earn here (I'm talking about guys who aren't star players, guys who are backups). For instance, Vrabel, Ninkovich, Van Noy, Stephen Neal, heck even a WR like Hogan. Middle class players become the heart of the team. Elsewhere they are afterthoughts making the league minimum because all the money is sopped up by "stars." 22 starters for each team, but only a few dip into the money pot.

2. Limiting player responsibilities. I'm going back to my soccer analogy again. In soccer, we preach that the most important thing is covering space. It's a field. Make sure you are absolutely responsible in your area. Do not freelance unless you see opportunity, and you better come through if you see it. When we recognize that our opposition is freelancing and leaving gaps in their coverage, we tilt the field. We flood the space being vacated. We create a diagonal line that keeps play in the weakest part of the opponent's field. And we hit it over and over and over. This is purely a coaching emphasis. Players will not see it. Players are geared to be aggressive. And they need to be told when and how to slow things down. Belichick's mantra "Do your job" was fundamentally about taking space and being responsible for that space. No weak links. So many NFL coaches want stud players who operate differently. The Bears' LB T. Edmunds could never operate in a Belichick team.

3. Discipline. People keep saying the old coaches and the old ways don't mesh with the new era player. That's probably true. But they do mesh with players of a different mentality. Somehow Belichick has cobbled together a lot of those players on his team. Even this year you saw the buy in from many of the Patriots. This started from the beginning, from the Patriots coming into the Super Bowl as a "team" rather than as individuals, to the kangaroo courts in the locker room and the very strict discipline. He ruled with an iron fist. It backfired a few times. Butler in the 2017 Super Bowl. Welker in the 2010 playoffs. But you can't possibly account for all the times his level of discipline lead to great outcomes. That stuff isn't measurable.

4. His personality. Love him, loved the way he talked to the media. He doesn't care what they think. Unlike Kraft who cares way too much what they think and wants to be liked.

All these things will be lost.

--------------------------------

I'm just going to give a revisionist rendition below of Belichick's record, one that isn't in line with the "Belichick is no one without Brady" people.

Coming off 2 Super Bowl victories as a DC (both of them defensive masterpieces against top offenses), Belichick went to Cleveland. He tore it down and rebuilt it. It took 3 years but he was held back by playing Cleveland's favorite son Bernie Kosar. As soon as he switched from Kosar, the team flew. They went 9-4 under Testaverde, after 3 years of losing with Kosar. They got to the playoffs and beat Parcells' Patriots. The next year Modell pulled the rug out from under the team to start the season by announcing the move to Baltimore, and the team disintegrated.

He came to New England. Parcells had such a bad previous year at 6-10, that he went to Kraft and asked that his contract be redone with no buyout, and for only 1 year (Kraft agreed presumably not knowing Parcells was already talking to the Jets). That 6-10 team had their defense improve 100% under Belichick. The team made the Super Bowl.

As Parcells and crew were moving out of Foxboro, Kraft hosted Belichick in his car for a 4 hour conversation. No one knows what was said. Im purely speculating when I say that Belichick was offered the position but turned it down out of loyalty to Parcells. Here's a icture of that night:


So Belichick went to the Jets as DC. The team improved overnight. They went to the AFC Championship. Vinny Testaverde went 12-1!! Once again reaffirming Belichick's switch from Kosar to Testaverde. It's amazing what can happen to a team's record when they have the right QB playing in the right system and executing it.

So we move onto the Patriots and another rebuild. 5-11. The next year, the team turns things around, throttles the opposition with mostly defensive efforts. Brady is not yet Brady. Remember, the 2001 AFC CG was won with Drew Bledsoe at the helm. He was the beneficiary of some defensive plays and also some great special teams. They go to the Super Bowl where the offense musters up one touchdown. The defense shuts down the Greatest Show on Turf and scores a pick 6. But the next year they go 9-7 because the team is still rebuilding, and Brady is not yet Brady.

In 2003, the defense is still top notch, but now we're seeing Brady's greatness.

One of the things that is mildly annoying about all this is the people saying he would have been fired in the early years or many years ago if not for Brady. But what is missed is the quality of the QBs when the teams are bad or when they're rebuilding. You look at his record in the Kosar / Cam Newton / Mac Jones years and it is terrible. But you make the switch from Kosar to Testaverde and instantly you're good? Is that because Testaverde is such a great QB? Or is there another reason for the dramatic shift? After all, when the team has been constructed as Belichick intended, he has had success with regular QBs who stayed within the system. Cassel, Brissett and Garoppolo went 14-6. The 2 teams these 3 QBs lead were strong and full of talent.

My conclusion: when the team has a full roster with no holes, then ordinary QBs like Testaverde and Cassel can lead it (though not to Super Bowls like Brady). When the team has a full roster and a good to great QB, then it can win Super Bowls. When the team is rebuilding and has a great QB, the results are good but not great (like Brady's 10-6 in 2010). When the team is rebuilding and has a bad QB, the results are bad (2020-2023) and that goes for 2021 which was only a mirage. 2021 actually showed Belichick that the defense needed a total overhaul. No punts for the Bills in the playoffs. Hightower, Van Noy, McCourty, Bentley, Chung, and more, slower than molasses, not to mention JC Jackson getting toasted. The people Belichick brought in were smaller, lighter, speedier, and he could use LB/S hybrids. The emphasis was obvious: Peppers, Mapu, Dugger, Judon, Anfernee, even Keion is very fast. This is why I say the team is in the middle of a rebuild.

Final piece: When Brady left, he went to a team with 12 Pro Bowlers on it. I don't think comparing a QB to a coach is ever a logical or rational comparison, but if you're going to do it, do it this way: what would Brady's record have been with the 2020-2022 Patriots with Arians/Bowles coaching and the Tampa GM making all the decisions? What would Belichick's record have been if he left for Tampa with all that talent?
 

Attachments

  • Picture1.jpg
    Picture1.jpg
    140.4 KB · Views: 19
Last edited:
and he would screw with the draft and FA signings all over again throwing a huge opportunity in the toilet, I'm sorry, time to go.
 
Don't read if you hate long stuff, but this is why Belichick is different for me, and why we lost something that I can only hope is retained if Mayo or Vrabel can mine it.

What Belichick brought and what may be lost:

1. Roster construction emphasized depth over star power. I'm not a football genius, I never coached it even if I did play it. I am however the type of person who annoys people at football games by yelling "penalty illegal formation" before the refs throw the flag. People next to me have commented that I pay too much attention to the LOS. I do. I have coached soccer, and the one thing we always talk about is this: find the weak link, or links. Let's keep play in their area. Likewise, in football, there are 22 players on the field. When there are injuries or bottom of the roster players making league minimum and they are your starters because you're top heavy on salary, you're showing your weakness week after week. For instance, LT on this year's Patriots team. QB is the most important position in all of sports, but there are still 10 other guys out there. Belichick was ruthless in his exploitation of weak links. No mercy. You may say every coach does that, but they don't. Coaches believe in their "systems." I don't think Belichick is that kind of coach. He was super flexible. He wasn't running the same stuff out there like a Tomlin. Once he figured out how to beat you, and where to exploit you, he changed the strategy to do exactly that. But this was only possible if he had a competent roster 1-53. How else was he supposed to make the adjustments? Think of it this way: if Belichick has to rely on Vederian Lowe, he loses. But if he has to rely on Myles Bryant, he wins. Bryant will end up making a lot more money in New England than he will anywhere else. And what happen when players like, for instance, Tedy Bruschi know they have a chance to develop here beyond being a situational pass rusher (in the Carroll era)? They make a career, they work harder, that becomes infectious. Elsewhere Bruschi would've spent his entire career as drinking game fodder. It's not just Bruschi that benefited from a chance to develop and earn here (I'm talking about guys who aren't star players, guys who are backups). For instance, Vrabel, Ninkovich, Van Noy, Stephen Neal, heck even a WR like Hogan. Middle class players become the heart of the team. Elsewhere they are afterthoughts making the league minimum because all the money is sopped up by "stars." 22 starters for each team, but only a few dip into the money pot.

2. Limiting player responsibilities. I'm going back to my soccer analogy again. In soccer, we preach that the most important thing is covering space. It's a field. Make sure you are absolutely responsible in your area. Do not freelance unless you see opportunity, and you better come through if you see it. When we recognize that our opposition is freelancing and leaving gaps in their coverage, we tilt the field. We flood the space being vacated. We create a diagonal line that keeps play in the weakest part of the opponent's field. And we hit it over and over and over. This is purely a coaching emphasis. Players will not see it. Players are geared to be aggressive. And they need to be told when and how to slow things down. Belichick's mantra "Do your job" was fundamentally about taking space and being responsible for that space. No weak links. So many NFL coaches want stud players who operate differently. The Bears' LB T. Edmunds could never operate in a Belichick team.

3. Discipline. People keep saying the old coaches and the old ways don't mesh with the new era player. That's probably true. But they do mesh with players of a different mentality. Somehow Belichick has cobbled together a lot of those players on his team. Even this year you saw the buy in from many of the Patriots. This started from the beginning, from the Patriots coming into the Super Bowl as a "team" rather than as individuals, to the kangaroo courts in the locker room and the very strict discipline. He ruled with an iron fist. It backfired a few times. Butler in the 2017 Super Bowl. Welker in the 2010 playoffs. But you can't possibly account for all the times his level of discipline lead to great outcomes. That stuff isn't measurable.

4. His personality. Love him, loved the way he talked to the media. He doesn't care what they think. Unlike Kraft who cares way too much what they think and wants to be liked.

All these things will be lost.

--------------------------------

I'm just going to give a revisionist rendition below of Belichick's record, one that isn't in line with the "Belichick is no one without Brady" people.

Coming off 2 Super Bowl victories as a DC (both of them defensive masterpieces against top offenses), Belichick went to Cleveland. He tore it down and rebuilt it. It took 3 years but he was held back by playing Cleveland's favorite son Bernie Kosar. As soon as he switched from Kosar, the team flew. They went 9-4 under Testaverde, after 3 years of losing with Kosar. They got to the playoffs and beat Parcells' Patriots. The next year Modell pulled the rug out from under the team to start the season by announcing the move to Baltimore, and the team disintegrated.

He came to New England. Parcells had such a bad previous year at 6-10, that he went to Kraft and asked that his contract be redone with no buyout, and for only 1 year (Kraft agreed presumably not knowing Parcells was already talking to the Jets). That 6-10 team had their defense improve 100% under Belichick. The team made the Super Bowl.

As Parcells and crew were moving out of Foxboro, Kraft hosted Belichick in his car for a 4 hour conversation. No one knows what was said. Im purely speculating when I say that Belichick was offered the position but turned it down out of loyalty to Parcells. Here's a icture of that night:


So Belichick went to the Jets as DC. The team improved overnight. They went to the AFC Championship. Vinny Testaverde went 12-1!! Once again reaffirming Belichick's switch from Kosar to Testaverde. It's amazing what can happen to a team's record when they have the right QB playing in the right system and executing it.

So we move onto the Patriots and another rebuild. 5-11. The next year, the team turns things around, throttles the opposition with mostly defensive efforts. Brady is not yet Brady. Remember, the 2001 AFC CG was won with Drew Bledsoe at the helm. He was the beneficiary of some defensive plays and also some great special teams. They go to the Super Bowl where the offense musters up one touchdown. The defense shuts down the Greatest Show on Turf and scores a pick 6. But the next year they go 9-7 because the team is still rebuilding, and Brady is not yet Brady.

In 2003, the defense is still top notch, but now we're seeing Brady's greatness.

One of the things that is mildly annoying about all this is the people saying he would have been fired in the early years or many years ago if not for Brady. But what is missed is the quality of the QBs when the teams are bad or when they're rebuilding. You look at his record in the Kosar / Cam Newton / Mac Jones years and it is terrible. But you make the switch from Kosar to Testaverde and instantly you're good? Is that because Testaverde is such a great QB? Or is there another reason for the dramatic shift? After all, when the team has been constructed as Belichick intended, he has had success with regular QBs who stayed within the system. Cassel, Brissett and Garoppolo went 14-6. The 2 teams these 3 QBs lead were strong and full of talent.

My conclusion: when the team has a full roster with no holes, then ordinary QBs like Testaverde and Cassel can lead it (though not to Super Bowls like Brady). When the team has a full roster and a good to great QB, then it can win Super Bowls. When the team is rebuilding and has a great QB, the results are good but not great (like Brady's 10-6 in 2010). When the team is rebuilding and has a bad QB, the results are bad (2020-2023) and that goes for 2021 which was only a mirage. 2021 actually showed Belichick that the defense needed a total overhaul. No punts for the Bills in the playoffs. Hightower, Van Noy, McCourty, Bentley, Chung, and more, slower than molasses, not to mention JC Jackson getting toasted. The people Belichick brought in were smaller, lighter, speedier, and he could use LB/S hybrids. The emphasis was obvious: Peppers, Mapu, Dugger, Judon, Anfernee, even Keion is very fast. This is why I say the team is in the middle of a rebuild.

Final piece: When Brady left, he went to a team with 12 Pro Bowlers on it. I don't think comparing a QB to a coach is ever a logical or rational comparison, but if you're going to do it, do it this way: what would Brady's record have been with the 2020-2022 Patriots with Arians/Bowles coaching and the Tampa GM making all the decisions? What would Belichick's record have been if he left for Tampa with all that talent?
Cope
 
Don't read if you hate long stuff, but this is why Belichick is different for me, and why we lost something that I can only hope is retained if Mayo or Vrabel can mine it.

What Belichick brought and what may be lost:

1. Roster construction emphasized depth over star power. I'm not a football genius, I never coached it even if I did play it. I am however the type of person who annoys people at football games by yelling "penalty illegal formation" before the refs throw the flag. People next to me have commented that I pay too much attention to the LOS. I do. I have coached soccer, and the one thing we always talk about is this: find the weak link, or links. Let's keep play in their area. Likewise, in football, there are 22 players on the field. When there are injuries or bottom of the roster players making league minimum and they are your starters because you're top heavy on salary, you're showing your weakness week after week. For instance, LT on this year's Patriots team. QB is the most important position in all of sports, but there are still 10 other guys out there. Belichick was ruthless in his exploitation of weak links. No mercy. You may say every coach does that, but they don't. Coaches believe in their "systems." I don't think Belichick is that kind of coach. He was super flexible. He wasn't running the same stuff out there like a Tomlin. Once he figured out how to beat you, and where to exploit you, he changed the strategy to do exactly that. But this was only possible if he had a competent roster 1-53. How else was he supposed to make the adjustments? Think of it this way: if Belichick has to rely on Vederian Lowe, he loses. But if he has to rely on Myles Bryant, he wins. Bryant will end up making a lot more money in New England than he will anywhere else. And what happen when players like, for instance, Tedy Bruschi know they have a chance to develop here beyond being a situational pass rusher (in the Carroll era)? They make a career, they work harder, that becomes infectious. Elsewhere Bruschi would've spent his entire career as drinking game fodder. It's not just Bruschi that benefited from a chance to develop and earn here (I'm talking about guys who aren't star players, guys who are backups). For instance, Vrabel, Ninkovich, Van Noy, Stephen Neal, heck even a WR like Hogan. Middle class players become the heart of the team. Elsewhere they are afterthoughts making the league minimum because all the money is sopped up by "stars." 22 starters for each team, but only a few dip into the money pot.

2. Limiting player responsibilities. I'm going back to my soccer analogy again. In soccer, we preach that the most important thing is covering space. It's a field. Make sure you are absolutely responsible in your area. Do not freelance unless you see opportunity, and you better come through if you see it. When we recognize that our opposition is freelancing and leaving gaps in their coverage, we tilt the field. We flood the space being vacated. We create a diagonal line that keeps play in the weakest part of the opponent's field. And we hit it over and over and over. This is purely a coaching emphasis. Players will not see it. Players are geared to be aggressive. And they need to be told when and how to slow things down. Belichick's mantra "Do your job" was fundamentally about taking space and being responsible for that space. No weak links. So many NFL coaches want stud players who operate differently. The Bears' LB T. Edmunds could never operate in a Belichick team.

3. Discipline. People keep saying the old coaches and the old ways don't mesh with the new era player. That's probably true. But they do mesh with players of a different mentality. Somehow Belichick has cobbled together a lot of those players on his team. Even this year you saw the buy in from many of the Patriots. This started from the beginning, from the Patriots coming into the Super Bowl as a "team" rather than as individuals, to the kangaroo courts in the locker room and the very strict discipline. He ruled with an iron fist. It backfired a few times. Butler in the 2017 Super Bowl. Welker in the 2010 playoffs. But you can't possibly account for all the times his level of discipline lead to great outcomes. That stuff isn't measurable.

4. His personality. Love him, loved the way he talked to the media. He doesn't care what they think. Unlike Kraft who cares way too much what they think and wants to be liked.

All these things will be lost.

--------------------------------

I'm just going to give a revisionist rendition below of Belichick's record, one that isn't in line with the "Belichick is no one without Brady" people.

Coming off 2 Super Bowl victories as a DC (both of them defensive masterpieces against top offenses), Belichick went to Cleveland. He tore it down and rebuilt it. It took 3 years but he was held back by playing Cleveland's favorite son Bernie Kosar. As soon as he switched from Kosar, the team flew. They went 9-4 under Testaverde, after 3 years of losing with Kosar. They got to the playoffs and beat Parcells' Patriots. The next year Modell pulled the rug out from under the team to start the season by announcing the move to Baltimore, and the team disintegrated.

He came to New England. Parcells had such a bad previous year at 6-10, that he went to Kraft and asked that his contract be redone with no buyout, and for only 1 year (Kraft agreed presumably not knowing Parcells was already talking to the Jets). That 6-10 team had their defense improve 100% under Belichick. The team made the Super Bowl.

As Parcells and crew were moving out of Foxboro, Kraft hosted Belichick in his car for a 4 hour conversation. No one knows what was said. Im purely speculating when I say that Belichick was offered the position but turned it down out of loyalty to Parcells. Here's a icture of that night:


So Belichick went to the Jets as DC. The team improved overnight. They went to the AFC Championship. Vinny Testaverde went 12-1!! Once again reaffirming Belichick's switch from Kosar to Testaverde. It's amazing what can happen to a team's record when they have the right QB playing in the right system and executing it.

So we move onto the Patriots and another rebuild. 5-11. The next year, the team turns things around, throttles the opposition with mostly defensive efforts. Brady is not yet Brady. Remember, the 2001 AFC CG was won with Drew Bledsoe at the helm. He was the beneficiary of some defensive plays and also some great special teams. They go to the Super Bowl where the offense musters up one touchdown. The defense shuts down the Greatest Show on Turf and scores a pick 6. But the next year they go 9-7 because the team is still rebuilding, and Brady is not yet Brady.

In 2003, the defense is still top notch, but now we're seeing Brady's greatness.

One of the things that is mildly annoying about all this is the people saying he would have been fired in the early years or many years ago if not for Brady. But what is missed is the quality of the QBs when the teams are bad or when they're rebuilding. You look at his record in the Kosar / Cam Newton / Mac Jones years and it is terrible. But you make the switch from Kosar to Testaverde and instantly you're good? Is that because Testaverde is such a great QB? Or is there another reason for the dramatic shift? After all, when the team has been constructed as Belichick intended, he has had success with regular QBs who stayed within the system. Cassel, Brissett and Garoppolo went 14-6. The 2 teams these 3 QBs lead were strong and full of talent.

My conclusion: when the team has a full roster with no holes, then ordinary QBs like Testaverde and Cassel can lead it (though not to Super Bowls like Brady). When the team has a full roster and a good to great QB, then it can win Super Bowls. When the team is rebuilding and has a great QB, the results are good but not great (like Brady's 10-6 in 2010). When the team is rebuilding and has a bad QB, the results are bad (2020-2023) and that goes for 2021 which was only a mirage. 2021 actually showed Belichick that the defense needed a total overhaul. No punts for the Bills in the playoffs. Hightower, Van Noy, McCourty, Bentley, Chung, and more, slower than molasses, not to mention JC Jackson getting toasted. The people Belichick brought in were smaller, lighter, speedier, and he could use LB/S hybrids. The emphasis was obvious: Peppers, Mapu, Dugger, Judon, Anfernee, even Keion is very fast. This is why I say the team is in the middle of a rebuild.

Final piece: When Brady left, he went to a team with 12 Pro Bowlers on it. I don't think comparing a QB to a coach is ever a logical or rational comparison, but if you're going to do it, do it this way: what would Brady's record have been with the 2020-2022 Patriots with Arians/Bowles coaching and the Tampa GM making all the decisions? What would Belichick's record have been if he left for Tampa with all that talent?
1706307864987.gif
 
Bill the GM had failed, abysmally. Bill the HC was declining, markedly and increasingly. Those of us who feel afflicted somehow by these facts need to untwist their panties and move on.
 
Move on ... you can see the state which bill left us in. Ideally Bill should have been fired after Patricia fiasco. At least we would not have extended parker and signed JuJu. And offensive line would have stabilized after 5 - 7 games.

We were a year late . But at least we are getting the 3rd draft pick . That's a win.
 
Move on ... you can see the state which bill left us in. Ideally Bill should have been fired after Patricia fiasco. At least we would not have extended parker and signed JuJu. And offensive line would have stabilized after 5 - 7 games.

We were a year late . But at least we are getting the 3rd draft pick . That's a win.
He left us with the 3rd pick and a ton of cap room with a good defense, all is not lost, if the team really sucked on offense and defense and we had no cap room, that would take quite a while to climb out of.
 
The problem with your analogy is that you’re looking at things BB did in his 30s/40s/50s and acting like he’s still the same guy. He isn’t. Everyone ages and everyone changes. Bill, like many before him, lost his fastball. He’s the best of his era, no doubt, but it isn’t 2001,2007, or 2014 anymore.

And by the way, the Bucs had 1 pro bowl player in 2020, Brady’s 1st year there. Let’s not act like the team was littered with all pros. It was their 1st post season appearance since 2007.
 
The problem with your analogy is that you’re looking at things BB did in his 30s/40s/50s and acting like he’s still the same guy. He isn’t. Everyone ages and everyone changes. Bill, like many before him, lost his fastball. He’s the best of his era, no doubt, but it isn’t 2001,2007, or 2014 anymore.

And by the way, the Bucs had 1 pro bowl player in 2020, Brady’s 1st year there. Let’s not act like the team was littered with all pros. It was their 1st post season appearance since 2007.
I didn't say All-Pros. I said Pro Bowlers &. Mike Evans, Lavonte David, Gronk, AB, Winfield, Shaq Barrett, Ali Marpet, Jason Pierre-Paul, Vita Vea, Devin White, Ryan Jensen, Chris Godwin. 12 of them.

The Patriots never had 12 one-time Pro Bowlers on their roster in any year of the dynasty.
 
He left us with the 3rd pick and a ton of cap room with a good defense, all is not lost, if the team really sucked on offense and defense and we had no cap room, that would take quite a while to climb out of.
And too many holes - OC , oline coach, RT,LT,WR1,Wr2 ,Qb , backup Qb , Te1 .

This means there is zero development. We have so much cash because we need to fill so many positions . Just look at ravens development in last 5 years and ours and you would know how threadbare our cupboard is .

I don't know why parker was extended last year. And wasted money on the FA OTs. If we know we are having a lost season better to be clear on how to develop young talent. Trying yo make sow an OT when he is better suited as a guard is a point to note.

I am grateful to Bill for all the memories , but the bill we had for the last 4 years was nothing home to write about .

I read one article where they mentioned that Andy Reid played to mahomes strengths and limit his weakness by encouraging mahomes to throw away when no play exists .

What did Bill do with Mac who needs decent offensive protection and decent offensive talent to play . He completely removed that and got him JAGs as receivers and jump ball parker who led to so many interceptions killing your QBs confidence. And yeah Patricia a DC as his OC.
 
The problem with your analogy is that you’re looking at things BB did in his 30s/40s/50s and acting like he’s still the same guy. He isn’t. Everyone ages and everyone changes. Bill, like many before him, lost his fastball. He’s the best of his era, no doubt, but it isn’t 2001,2007, or 2014 anymore.

And by the way, the Bucs had 1 pro bowl player in 2020, Brady’s 1st year there. Let’s not act like the team was littered with all pros. It was their 1st post season appearance since 2007.
I'd also add we doing revisionist history here lol
When Brady signed there they weren't even considered favorites to win the division and they were underdogs all postseason minus the Washington game
 
Don't read if you hate long stuff, but this is why Belichick is different for me, and why we lost something that I can only hope is retained if Mayo or Vrabel can mine it.

What Belichick brought and what may be lost:

1. Roster construction emphasized depth over star power. I'm not a football genius, I never coached it even if I did play it. I am however the type of person who annoys people at football games by yelling "penalty illegal formation" before the refs throw the flag. People next to me have commented that I pay too much attention to the LOS. I do. I have coached soccer, and the one thing we always talk about is this: find the weak link, or links. Let's keep play in their area. Likewise, in football, there are 22 players on the field. When there are injuries or bottom of the roster players making league minimum and they are your starters because you're top heavy on salary, you're showing your weakness week after week. For instance, LT on this year's Patriots team. QB is the most important position in all of sports, but there are still 10 other guys out there. Belichick was ruthless in his exploitation of weak links. No mercy. You may say every coach does that, but they don't. Coaches believe in their "systems." I don't think Belichick is that kind of coach. He was super flexible. He wasn't running the same stuff out there like a Tomlin. Once he figured out how to beat you, and where to exploit you, he changed the strategy to do exactly that. But this was only possible if he had a competent roster 1-53. How else was he supposed to make the adjustments? Think of it this way: if Belichick has to rely on Vederian Lowe, he loses. But if he has to rely on Myles Bryant, he wins. Bryant will end up making a lot more money in New England than he will anywhere else. And what happen when players like, for instance, Tedy Bruschi know they have a chance to develop here beyond being a situational pass rusher (in the Carroll era)? They make a career, they work harder, that becomes infectious. Elsewhere Bruschi would've spent his entire career as drinking game fodder. It's not just Bruschi that benefited from a chance to develop and earn here (I'm talking about guys who aren't star players, guys who are backups). For instance, Vrabel, Ninkovich, Van Noy, Stephen Neal, heck even a WR like Hogan. Middle class players become the heart of the team. Elsewhere they are afterthoughts making the league minimum because all the money is sopped up by "stars." 22 starters for each team, but only a few dip into the money pot.

2. Limiting player responsibilities. I'm going back to my soccer analogy again. In soccer, we preach that the most important thing is covering space. It's a field. Make sure you are absolutely responsible in your area. Do not freelance unless you see opportunity, and you better come through if you see it. When we recognize that our opposition is freelancing and leaving gaps in their coverage, we tilt the field. We flood the space being vacated. We create a diagonal line that keeps play in the weakest part of the opponent's field. And we hit it over and over and over. This is purely a coaching emphasis. Players will not see it. Players are geared to be aggressive. And they need to be told when and how to slow things down. Belichick's mantra "Do your job" was fundamentally about taking space and being responsible for that space. No weak links. So many NFL coaches want stud players who operate differently. The Bears' LB T. Edmunds could never operate in a Belichick team.

3. Discipline. People keep saying the old coaches and the old ways don't mesh with the new era player. That's probably true. But they do mesh with players of a different mentality. Somehow Belichick has cobbled together a lot of those players on his team. Even this year you saw the buy in from many of the Patriots. This started from the beginning, from the Patriots coming into the Super Bowl as a "team" rather than as individuals, to the kangaroo courts in the locker room and the very strict discipline. He ruled with an iron fist. It backfired a few times. Butler in the 2017 Super Bowl. Welker in the 2010 playoffs. But you can't possibly account for all the times his level of discipline lead to great outcomes. That stuff isn't measurable.

4. His personality. Love him, loved the way he talked to the media. He doesn't care what they think. Unlike Kraft who cares way too much what they think and wants to be liked.

All these things will be lost.

--------------------------------

I'm just going to give a revisionist rendition below of Belichick's record, one that isn't in line with the "Belichick is no one without Brady" people.

Coming off 2 Super Bowl victories as a DC (both of them defensive masterpieces against top offenses), Belichick went to Cleveland. He tore it down and rebuilt it. It took 3 years but he was held back by playing Cleveland's favorite son Bernie Kosar. As soon as he switched from Kosar, the team flew. They went 9-4 under Testaverde, after 3 years of losing with Kosar. They got to the playoffs and beat Parcells' Patriots. The next year Modell pulled the rug out from under the team to start the season by announcing the move to Baltimore, and the team disintegrated.

He came to New England. Parcells had such a bad previous year at 6-10, that he went to Kraft and asked that his contract be redone with no buyout, and for only 1 year (Kraft agreed presumably not knowing Parcells was already talking to the Jets). That 6-10 team had their defense improve 100% under Belichick. The team made the Super Bowl.

As Parcells and crew were moving out of Foxboro, Kraft hosted Belichick in his car for a 4 hour conversation. No one knows what was said. Im purely speculating when I say that Belichick was offered the position but turned it down out of loyalty to Parcells. Here's a icture of that night:


So Belichick went to the Jets as DC. The team improved overnight. They went to the AFC Championship. Vinny Testaverde went 12-1!! Once again reaffirming Belichick's switch from Kosar to Testaverde. It's amazing what can happen to a team's record when they have the right QB playing in the right system and executing it.

So we move onto the Patriots and another rebuild. 5-11. The next year, the team turns things around, throttles the opposition with mostly defensive efforts. Brady is not yet Brady. Remember, the 2001 AFC CG was won with Drew Bledsoe at the helm. He was the beneficiary of some defensive plays and also some great special teams. They go to the Super Bowl where the offense musters up one touchdown. The defense shuts down the Greatest Show on Turf and scores a pick 6. But the next year they go 9-7 because the team is still rebuilding, and Brady is not yet Brady.

In 2003, the defense is still top notch, but now we're seeing Brady's greatness.

One of the things that is mildly annoying about all this is the people saying he would have been fired in the early years or many years ago if not for Brady. But what is missed is the quality of the QBs when the teams are bad or when they're rebuilding. You look at his record in the Kosar / Cam Newton / Mac Jones years and it is terrible. But you make the switch from Kosar to Testaverde and instantly you're good? Is that because Testaverde is such a great QB? Or is there another reason for the dramatic shift? After all, when the team has been constructed as Belichick intended, he has had success with regular QBs who stayed within the system. Cassel, Brissett and Garoppolo went 14-6. The 2 teams these 3 QBs lead were strong and full of talent.

My conclusion: when the team has a full roster with no holes, then ordinary QBs like Testaverde and Cassel can lead it (though not to Super Bowls like Brady). When the team has a full roster and a good to great QB, then it can win Super Bowls. When the team is rebuilding and has a great QB, the results are good but not great (like Brady's 10-6 in 2010). When the team is rebuilding and has a bad QB, the results are bad (2020-2023) and that goes for 2021 which was only a mirage. 2021 actually showed Belichick that the defense needed a total overhaul. No punts for the Bills in the playoffs. Hightower, Van Noy, McCourty, Bentley, Chung, and more, slower than molasses, not to mention JC Jackson getting toasted. The people Belichick brought in were smaller, lighter, speedier, and he could use LB/S hybrids. The emphasis was obvious: Peppers, Mapu, Dugger, Judon, Anfernee, even Keion is very fast. This is why I say the team is in the middle of a rebuild.

Final piece: When Brady left, he went to a team with 12 Pro Bowlers on it. I don't think comparing a QB to a coach is ever a logical or rational comparison, but if you're going to do it, do it this way: what would Brady's record have been with the 2020-2022 Patriots with Arians/Bowles coaching and the Tampa GM making all the decisions? What would Belichick's record have been if he left for Tampa with all that talent?
what we will also miss, and it hasn't become apparent yet, are two things... the ability to maintain a high level of competence in the coaching staff despite a continual brain drain, despite falling off over the last few years... year in year out Patriot coaches, assistants and personnel guys were hired away from the team... they may have sucked ass as individual head coaches, but while here, they were pretty damn good at keep the team focused...

coaches we lost over the years include Charlie Weis, Romeo Crennel, Rob Ryan, Pepper Johnson, Eric Mangini, Brad Seeley, Bill O'Brien, Josh McDaniels, Dean Pees, Brian Flores, Josh Boyer, Chad O'Shea, Shane Waldron, Dom Capers, Matt Patricia, Patrick Graham, George Godsey, Jerry Schuplinski, Brenden Daly, Cole Popovich, Nick Caley

and the personnel guys who went onto other jobs include Scott Pioli, Thomas Dimitroff, Nick Caserio, Jon Robinson, Jason Licht, Bob Quinn and Monti Ossenfort...

the second plays into the first - BB institutional knowledge and network developed over the years that includes how to develop a coach to fill a needed role and how to make the assessment if its worth it... consistency doesn't happen by magic...

These are traits that I hope Mayo can grow into... I have no doubt as he moves forward he will develop a network of frriends across the league, like BB had... makes it easier to work a trade, move up and down in the draft, snag a street free agent or undrafted free agent (just hope he's better at the WR position than BB was)...
 
Not reading all that, can someone give me the short version? Or is it just more BB honk in 2024?
 
I didn't say All-Pros. I said Pro Bowlers &. Mike Evans, Lavonte David, Gronk, AB, Winfield, Shaq Barrett, Ali Marpet, Jason Pierre-Paul, Vita Vea, Devin White, Ryan Jensen, Chris Godwin. 12 of them.

The Patriots never had 12 one-time Pro Bowlers on their roster in any year of the dynasty.
Come on, that’s a little disingenuous. A lot of those guys were not at pro bowl level in 2020. AB and Gronk were past their prime. Marpet, Vea, White, Winfield, Jensen didn’t make a pro bowl until seasons after the SB year.
 
what we will also miss, and it hasn't become apparent yet, are two things... the ability to maintain a high level of competence in the coaching staff despite a continual brain drain, despite falling off over the last few years... year in year out Patriot coaches, assistants and personnel guys were hired away from the team... they may have sucked ass as individual head coaches, but while here, they were pretty damn good at keep the team focused...

coaches we lost over the years include Charlie Weis, Romeo Crennel, Rob Ryan, Pepper Johnson, Eric Mangini, Brad Seeley, Bill O'Brien, Josh McDaniels, Dean Pees, Brian Flores, Josh Boyer, Chad O'Shea, Shane Waldron, Dom Capers, Matt Patricia, Patrick Graham, George Godsey, Jerry Schuplinski, Brenden Daly, Cole Popovich, Nick Caley

and the personnel guys who went onto other jobs include Scott Pioli, Thomas Dimitroff, Nick Caserio, Jon Robinson, Jason Licht, Bob Quinn and Monti Ossenfort...

the second plays into the first - BB institutional knowledge and network developed over the years that includes how to develop a coach to fill a needed role and how to make the assessment if its worth it... consistency doesn't happen by magic...

These are traits that I hope Mayo can grow into... I have no doubt as he moves forward he will develop a network of frriends across the league, like BB had... makes it easier to work a trade, move up and down in the draft, snag a street free agent or undrafted free agent (just hope he's better at the WR position than BB was)...
I agree with all of this but...

I think coaching in the NFL is such a different thing now, so many young people without that institutional knowledge, that it may not hurt the Patriots as much as it helped Belichick in the past.

Even coaching fundamentals is different now with the smaller number of practices, and the lower intensity of practices.

The playing field is going to be leveled when coaches can't use their experience and mastery. Winning will depend much more on superstars.

Unless, through force of will alone, someone really manages to do things that will become a lost art.
 


Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/16: News and Notes
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/15: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-14, Mock Draft 3.0, Gilmore, Law Rally For Bill 
Potential Patriot: Boston Globe’s Price Talks to Georgia WR McConkey
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/12: News and Notes
Not a First Round Pick? Hoge Doubles Down on Maye
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/11: News and Notes
MORSE: Patriots Mock Draft #5 and Thoughts About Dugger Signing
Matthew Slater Set For New Role With Patriots
Back
Top