How Belichick lost his place in posterity

[cmasspatsfan]

Saying points don't matter is akin to saying air is overrated for mammals, or water overrated for fish. But I'll try harder to be nice.

Not saying your argument doesn't have merit but the insults don't help your arguments and actually hurt them trying to make your point.

 

[Wozzy]

Not saying your argument doesn't have merit but the insults don't help your arguments and actually hurt them trying to make your point.

I was being genuine when I said I'll try harder.

 

[lancerman]

Points determines wins and losses, there’s no more important stat in football. Stop sniffing glue.

That's not what he's saying though. Points per game is a bad metric because it's often used to measure an individual unit when it is far more complicated. Is your defense **** if your team gives up a ton of points because your QB is an INT machine and you constantly are giving up the ball and then your special teams sucks and gives up some horrible field position and even some run backs for a score? Is your defense good if your offense controls the ball for 75% of the game and gets out to a hot start and the opposing offense has to abandon their game plan to play catch up? Because points per game will say the answer is yes.

For example points per game for Super Bowl 51 will say the defense was the weakest unit in the game for giving up 28 points even though they realistically had nothing to do with the pick six Brady threw, and then there was the one Blount fumble in bad field position that led to another score. In all truth, they gave up one bad score that the offense didn't contribute to in each half. But if you look at points per game it will make it look like the offense bailed out a poor defensive performance.

DVOA is straight up beter if you want to purely measure a unit. Points per game is more of a total team metric that you really have to analyze and find the "whys" to get real data out of it.

 

[sb1]

Points determines wins and losses, there’s no more important stat in football. Stop sniffing glue.

Yes points determines who wins a game. Points per game average is not that. It’s a worthless stat as I already demonstrated.

Yer gonna have to do a lot better than that graph if you’re trying to show Brady benefited from better teams than his peers did….and that’s not true anyway so good luck with that.

 

[Wozzy]

Yes points determines who wins a game. Points per game average is not that. It’s a worthless stat as I already demonstrated.

The graph showed total team points allowed over a full season for 21 straight years, broken down on a per game basis doesn't change anything.

You calling it worthless only reinforces you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Yer gonna have to do a lot better than that graph if you’re trying to show Brady benefited from better teams than his peers did….and that’s not true anyway so good luck with that.

Points is the most important stat in football.

Explain to us how breaking it down to points per game makes it "lesser" somehow, so we can all have another big laugh at your expense.

 

[Wozzy]

That's not what he's saying though. Points per game is a bad metric because it's often used to measure an individual unit when it is far more complicated. Is your defense **** if your team gives up a ton of points because your QB is an INT machine and you constantly are giving up the ball and then your special teams sucks and gives up some horrible field position and even some run backs for a score? Is your defense good if your offense controls the ball for 75% of the game and gets out to a hot start and the opposing offense has to abandon their game plan to play catch up? Because points per game will say the answer is yes.

Points per game is based off total team points, if we're breaking down an individual unit I prefer "per drive" which isolates offense or defense in a vacuum. But you're acting like we don't know how good Brady and the offense were for the 21 years the graph represents... we do. You act like we don't know how good the Patriots special teams were for two decades, we do... they were the best example of special team's excellence for the better part of two decades.

We can also hold team points allowed up against points allowed per drive to get a better representation of how much we can attribute to the defense alone. In this case the Patriots the offense was consistently great, and the points allowed defensively and points allowed per drive were similar... which means the defense was consistently good/great also.

Points allowed at a league leading pace among his peers shows team competency. It shows that in relation to his peers Tom consistently had better teams around him over the course of his career and it's not debatable... it's a 21 year sample size. And yes, some years the defense wasn't as strong as others, or the special teams in other years... it doesn't change the fact his teams were better on average.

For example points per game for Super Bowl 51 will say the defense was the weakest unit in the game for giving up 28 points even though they realistically had nothing to do with the pick six Brady threw, and then there was the one Blount fumble in bad field position that led to another score. In all truth, they gave up one bad score that the offense didn't contribute to in each half. But if you look at points per game it will make it look like the offense bailed out a poor defensive performance.

A one game sample size is laughable in relation to a 21 year sample size.

We can also look at points per drive if we want to isolate defense alone, we can look at simple stats from the box score.

DVOA is straight up beter if you want to purely measure a unit. Points per game is more of a total team metric that you really have to analyze and find the "whys" to get real data out of it.

DVOA is made up nonsense that introduces human error, personal bias and has been constantly changing since football outsiders created it. It's junk science, the conspiracy theorist in me says it was likely concocted by Vegas to convince a bunch of rubes that bad is good and vice versa so they could steal your money.

If you want to measure an individual unit like defense; points per drive, forced turnovers, 3rd/4th down percentage, red zone percentage are much better, more accurate stats that even a 12 year old can understand. DVOA is junk science, it's better to wipe my butt with.

 

[sb1]

The graph showed total team points allowed over a full season for 21 straight years, broken down on a per game basis doesn't change anything.

You calling it worthless only reinforces you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Points is the most important stat in football.

Explain to us how breaking it down to points per game makes it "lesser" somehow, so we can all have another big laugh at your expense.

I already explained why it’s worthless. Learn the game and figure it out on your own.

Keep defending that wall for Bill.

 

[1960Pats]

He's got a net worth of almost 100 million dollars and will have an NFL job next season... I'm sure he'll be fine.

Money can't buy happiness.

Does anyone think that Bill's happy about falling a bit short of the HC wins record? I'm pretty sure, with his fondness for the history of the game, that he doesn't like it, especially after the petty way Shula* treated Bill and the Pats in 2007.

 

[1960Pats]

So this thread is still going huh

So weird to be a patriots fan and somehow hate Bill Belichick. People are funny

So weird to be a Pats fan and somehow complain to have Brady threads removed from the main forum.

 

[Wozzy]

I already explained why it’s worthless. Learn the game and figure it out on your own.

Keep defending that wall for Bill.

Points is worthless in a sport determined by points…. smart.

I root for the laundry, not individuals.

Saying the most successful coach in the modern age actually sucked at his job is next level stupid. But keep doing you….

 

[Wozzy]

So weird to be a Pats fan and somehow complain to have Brady threads removed from the main forum.

Are we talking about when he played for the Bucs?

 

[Tunescribe]

So weird to be a Pats fan and somehow complain to have Brady threads removed from the main forum.

You are wrong about this, the Brady forum was Ian's initiative after Tom became a Buccaneer. It was not in response to complaints from Patriots fans but to accommodate people who were Brady fans first and Patriots fans a distant second.

 

[sb1]

Points is worthless in a sport determined by points…. smart.

Points per game ranking... as worthless as it gets.

I root for the laundry, not individuals.

Then why all paranoid what people don’t praise Bill. He's not a Patriot anymore.

Saying the most successful coach in the modern age actually sucked at his job is next level stupid. But keep doing you….

And you accuse me of calling you out on things you didn't say.... lol the irony

 

[Wozzy]

Points per game ranking... as worthless as it gets.

It’s team points broken down over a season. Worthless is the commentary of anyone speaking on football who thinks points are “worthless.”

Then why all paranoid what people don’t praise Bill. He's not a Patriot anymore.

Suggesting he wasn’t good at his job and defense doesn’t matter is absurd… stupid. There’s no paranoia at all.

And you accuse me of calling you out on things you didn't say.... lol the irony

You never say anything when you’re arguing it for 41 pages. Laughable…

 

[sb1]

It’s team points broken down over a season.

Which only the low information fans treat as the way to measure the quality of an offense or defense by itself.

Coincidentally the low information fans also think Zappe is good because "2-0 and that Browns game!". Or has any potential at all. Weird eh?

Worthless is the commentary of anyone speaking on football who thinks points are “worthless.”

Suggesting he wasn’t good at his job and defense doesn’t matter is absurd… stupid. There’s no paranoia at all.

Do you think hiring two bozos in over their heads to run his offense and manage his young QB was a good coaching job?

You never say anything when you’re arguing it for 41 pages. Laughable…

The irony...

 

[h0c2000]

 

[mrbean]

This debate is almost comical. Isn’t Belichick on record saying points is the most important stat? I’d like to know what qualifications whoever wants to argue that possesses. Also, where are all these other head coaches, former or present, who coached against him talking **** about what a terrible coach Belichick is? They aren’t any, and for good reason. Anybody who knows their ass from a field goal, knows Belichick is one of the greatest to ever do it.

But whatever, let the killjoys continue to run people off these forums with the negativity.

 

[Wozzy]

Which only the low information fans treat as the way to measure the quality of an offense or defense by itself.

I don't only use total points, I also use points per drive... which is a very exact way to measure offense and defense in isolation.

The Patriot's annual team points (per game) usually mirror the per drive stats exactly. So stats say you're wrong.

The funniest part of this conversation... is we all lived a shared experience for two decades, those of us that were old enough.

And you're trying to rewrite history so one of the best defenses annually, better O-Lines coached by Scar, the unquestionably best special teams and some good to great weapons along the way... these guys all sucked.

It's a laughably bad take... like I feel second hand embarrassment by the thought of it.

 

[sb1]

I don't only use total points, I also use points per drive... which is a very exact way to measure offense and defense in isolation.

That's not what your graph says. It showed defensive PPG rankings and you took that to conclude Brady benefited from better teams than his peers. Better coach maybe. Better teams no way no how.

The Patriot's annual team points (per game) usually mirror the per drive stats exactly. So stats say you're wrong.

PPG is a product of schedule and opponents. Teams don't play the same opponents nor have the same schedule so what's the point of ranking them. It's a waste of time to look at those rankings and draw any conclusions about a defense from those numbers alone.

The funniest part of this conversation... is we all lived a shared experience for two decades, those of us that were old enough.

And you're trying to rewrite history so one of the best defenses annually, better O-Lines coached by Scar, the unquestionably best special teams and some good to great weapons along the way... these guys all sucked.

Said nobody.

It's a laughably bad take... like I feel second hand embarrassment by the thought of it.

 

[patsfan13]

Belichick didn't do anything, **** Rehbein orchestrated the Brady pick

Yeah Belickick only kept him as the 4th Qb then met with him weekly and got Brady a PHD in reading NFL defenses (mind you Brady was a sponge and did the work to take advantage of what BB was teaching), which was Brady’s edge his FB IQ.
Brady may never been in the league without BB and BB wouldn’t have 8 rings so Brady.