Pats still interested in Sherman

[supafly]

Malcolm Butler right now is a better cb than Sherman

I'm trying to muster up something nice to say as a reasonable response, but this ridiculous thought is just so far over the top that you've stumped me.

 

[Deus Irae]

Wow, so instead of actually comparing the relative strengths/weaknesses of each player, you go to namecalling. in other words-you dont know. sherman does NOT curently play cb better than butler. if both were playing seatles current scheme, then, yes, shermn plays it better. that has nothing to do with their market value to the rest of the laegue. butler plays a LOT more man. i thought you knew that. cbs with man cover skills are worth more. like revis USED to be. talib. butler. peterson. im not saying butler is a better overall cb than sherman was at his peak. hes not at his peak anymore. and butler hasnt yet reached his. hell, i think gilmore has more value on the open market right now than sherman, becuase hes younger with bigger potential upside. doesnt mean he'll reach that upside. but contracts are based on RECENT play AND FUTURE POTENTIAL. NOT past performance from 3+ years ago

Someone posted data on Sherman, indicating how good he is. You completely dismissed it.

Look, I get it. Your posting history is clear. You're an insane Patriots homer, and there's nothing actually wrong with that. That doesn't mean people have to believe all the nonsense you spew, though.

And the fact that you've now changed your argument (as indicated by the now bold portion of your response), tells me that you know you were talking out of your ass. So we're making progress, even if you're still unwilling to admit the obvious, which is good. Time to move on.

 

[varjao]

Could the Seahawks Trade Richard Sherman | Over the Cap

Seattle’s success was built upon great drafts for the first few years that Pete Carroll was brought in to run the franchise. From 2010 to 2012 their draft picks produced multiple starters who have been selected to over 20 Pro Bowls. Their top picks became household names- Sherman, Earl Thomas, Russell Wilson, KJ Wright, Kam Chancellor, Bobby Wagner- and helped carry the team to a tremendous run. But in recent years that has been lacking. Since 2013 they have produced minimal starters, and only one Seahawks draft pick has made the Pro Bowl.
​

That confirms the theory that Carroll came out of his coaching gig in NCAA with privileged information about players and that resulted in great drafts, a few years removed from that context with entirely new classes they are not being able to repeat. Some people mentioned that theory back in the day.

 

[varjao]

Seahawks GM John Schneider on Richard Sherman trade rumors: ‘What you’ve seen lately in the news is real’

“I think we’re a very unique organization in that regard,’’ Schneider said. “We have a great relationship with a lot of our players. There’s very much an openness. What you’ve seen lately in the news is real. That’s on both sides. It’s just open communication. He knows what’s going on. We know what’s going on. I don’t know if anything would ever happen. But like I tell people all the time, 98 percent of the deals that we’re involved with, we don’t follow through with. But at least we’ve opened that door, gone down the road and seen what’s behind door A or door B.”​

Not sure it's the best strategy, now teams know they can get Sherman without selling the farm. And I'm not sure that (this whole openness thing) sits well with the player.

 

[jimnance]

Respect, Jim. Certainly there may be no way to truly quantify anything, but your assertion that Butler is better than Gilmore... how? I'm curious.

How? Last 2 seasons : Butler- 2nd team All-Pro, Pro-Bowler. Proven big game player. Gilmore? wildly inconsistent. Gilmore has upside. hes one of the few taller cbs who, on paper, has the quickness to cover the quick, fast smaller je11, antono brown etc wrs. At times, hes looked all world. other times, horrible. je11 abused him. but hes also young. he has the POTENTIAL to be one of the best in the nfl. but hes notnow. theres no objective , knowledgeable nfl coach, scout or gm who would say gilmore has been even as good overall as butler the last 2 years. but contracts are based on potential as much as on production. its a calculated risk. not everyone meets their potential. but gilmore has a great makeup, great athleticism, no off-field issues and im sure BB feels the Pats can help him reach his potential. if he evr reaches tha, he'l be abetter cb than butler. but hes not yet.

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

Let's pretend for a second here...

Let's say Butler goes to NO for #32...Pats turn around and trade 32 to Hawks for Sherman.

In a vacuum.. #32+ Butler got you Brandin Cooks and Richard Sherman.

Through the lens looks like Patriots make out like Bandits again.....

 

[FourierSeries]

How? Last 2 seasons : Butler- 2nd team All-Pro, Pro-Bowler. Proven big game player. Gilmore? wildly inconsistent. Gilmore has upside. hes one of the few taller cbs who, on paper, has the quickness to cover the quick, fast smaller je11, antono brown etc wrs. At times, hes looked all world. other times, horrible. je11 abused him. but hes also young. he has the POTENTIAL to be one of the best in the nfl. but hes notnow. theres no objective , knowledgeable nfl coach, scout or gm who would say gilmore has been even as good overall as butler the last 2 years. but contracts are based on potential as much as on production. its a calculated risk. not everyone meets their potential. but gilmore has a great makeup, great athleticism, no off-field issues and im sure BB feels the Pats can help him reach his potential. if he evr reaches tha, he'l be abetter cb than butler. but hes not yet.

Butler has been playing for the most successful organization of the last 15 years under arguably the greatest coach of all time. Gilmore has been playing for a fat clown masquerading as a head coach. Not exactly a great comparison.

Gilmore will look better than Butler has on this team.

 

[resdubwhite]

Let's pretend for a second here...

Let's say Butler goes to NO for #32...Pats turn around and trade 32 to Hawks for Sherman.

In a vacuum.. #32+ Butler got you Brandin Cooks and Richard Sherman.

Through the lens looks like Patriots make out like Bandits again.....

except for the 10 million cap hit

 

[jimnance]

Someone posted data on Sherman, indicating how good he is. You completely dismissed it.

Look, I get it. Your posting history is clear. You're an insane Patriots homer, and there's nothing actually wrong with that. That doesn't mean people have to believe all the nonsense you spew, though.

And the fact that you've now changed your argument (as indicated by the now bold portion of your response), tells me that you know you were talking out of your ass. So we're making progress, even if you're still unwilling to admit the obvious, which is good. Time to move on.

The data on Sherman was going back 7 years! Totally irrelevant,since only the last 2 years matter for 2 reasons--1.for comparison purposes with butler, whos only started fro 2 years and 2. the comparative value both cbs would bring RIGHT NOW to the rest of the nfl. You want relevant data? compare sherman/butler just over the past 2 years and then tell me sherman has been better. also break down what each is expected to do in their respective defenses. I never said butler was a better cb than sherman was at his best. i said butler is better right now-and also will be better over the next few years. sherman will be a hall of famer . so will revis. but revis is not even a top 20 cb in the nfl right now. case closed.

 

[Thelonious]

The data on Sherman was going back 7 years! Totally irrelevant,since only the last 2 years matter for 2 reasons--1.for comparison purposes with butler, whos only started fro 2 years and 2. the comparative value both cbs would bring RIGHT NOW to the rest of the nfl. You want relevant data? compare sherman/butler just over the past 2 years and then tell me sherman has been better. also break down what each is expected to do in their respective defenses. I never said butler was a better cb than sherman was at his best. i said butler is better right now-and also will be better over the next few years. sherman will be a hall of famer . so will revis. but revis is not even a top 20 cb in the nfl right now. case closed.

You scrappy, Jim. Well done.

 

[jimnance]

Butler has been playing for the most successful organization of the last 15 years under arguably the greatest coach of all time. Gilmore has been playing for a fat clown masquerading as a head coach. Not exactly a great comparison.

Gilmore will look better than Butler has on this team.

Yes, he might. If Gilmore can consistently play to his full potential, he'll probably be a better cb than butler at HIS full potential. Hell, if gilmore did that, hed be the best in the nfl or at least a close #2 to peterson. most of us know gilmores 3cone#'s, very good for a taller cb(so is rowe). hes young. hes got work ethic.so yeah, im excited to see what he can do. But dont try to pretend hes been as good as butler over the last 2 years. he hasnt. the 2 together would be the best cb tandem in the league, imo, better than talib/harris.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I've been saying since the Super Bowl that the Patriots no longer see Malcolm Butler as a top cornerback. He got absolutely burned all over the field by Sanu and Gabriel. The Patriots played such a weak schedule that it was difficult to tell how good their secondary really was, since they rarely faced a good QB who had multiple strong skill players. Yes, the Falcons had a historically good offense, but Matt Ryan's QB rating was 144.1. The pass rush and second half run defense up front was the unit that played at a championship level. Butler was the weakest link in that secondary. Everyone has a bad game, but this was a really dismal game from Butler. I think the Patriots saw the market for Ryan, and the likely market for Butler, and just figured, hey, if we are going to spend into that range, we may as well get our top choice.

 

[Froob]

Now there's an interesting concept - trade Butler and a 4th for Sherman and a 3rd. Seattle gets a younger player that they can extend on similar money as Sherman but get the first year cheap, and it only costs them one round's worth of pick movement.

Why would we do that? Just keep Butler.

 

[PatsBoy12]

How? Last 2 seasons : Butler- 2nd team All-Pro, Pro-Bowler. Proven big game player. Gilmore? wildly inconsistent. Gilmore has upside. hes one of the few taller cbs who, on paper, has the quickness to cover the quick, fast smaller je11, antono brown etc wrs. At times, hes looked all world. other times, horrible. je11 abused him. but hes also young. he has the POTENTIAL to be one of the best in the nfl. but hes notnow. theres no objective , knowledgeable nfl coach, scout or gm who would say gilmore has been even as good overall as butler the last 2 years. but contracts are based on potential as much as on production. its a calculated risk. not everyone meets their potential. but gilmore has a great makeup, great athleticism, no off-field issues and im sure BB feels the Pats can help him reach his potential. if he evr reaches tha, he'l be abetter cb than butler. but hes not yet.

Interesting.

 

[jimnance]

I've been saying since the Super Bowl that the Patriots no longer see Malcolm Butler as a top cornerback. He got absolutely burned all over the field by Sanu and Gabriel. The Patriots played such a weak schedule that it was difficult to tell how good their secondary really was, since they rarely faced a good QB who had multiple strong skill players. Yes, the Falcons had a historically good offense, but Matt Ryan's QB rating was 144.1. The pass rush and second half run defense up front was the unit that played at a championship level. Butler was the weakest link in that secondary. Everyone has a bad game, but this was a really dismal game from Butler. I think the Patriots saw the market for Ryan, and the likely market for Butler, and just figured, hey, if we are going to spend into that range, we may as well get our top choice.

Antonio Brown says hello.

 

[Froob]

Antonio Brown says hello.

Julio made Sherman look like 2008 Deltha O'Neal.

 

[Thelonious]

Someone posted data on Sherman, indicating how good he is. You completely dismissed it.

Look, I get it. Your posting history is clear. You're an insane Patriots homer, and there's nothing actually wrong with that. That doesn't mean people have to believe all the nonsense you spew, though.

And the fact that you've now changed your argument (as indicated by the now bold portion of your response), tells me that you know you were talking out of your ass. So we're making progress, even if you're still unwilling to admit the obvious, which is good. Time to move on.

This is the sort of post one sees when it is indeed "time to move on." But jimnance isn't the one putting up content-void posts whose intent is nothing other than empty insult. Perhaps you are tired.

No need for jimnance to move on: he's fine right where he is.

 

[Ross12]

Why would we do that? Just keep Butler.

Sherman's skill vs Butler's skill, plus Butler is only on a 1 year deal and would want a big & long extension, vs Sherman just being on a not-overly-pricey 2 year deal.

 

[Deus Irae]

The data on Sherman was going back 7 years! Totally irrelevant,since only the last 2 years matter for 2 reasons--1.for comparison purposes with butler, whos only started fro 2 years and 2. the comparative value both cbs would bring RIGHT NOW to the rest of the nfl. You want relevant data? compare sherman/butler just over the past 2 years and then tell me sherman has been better. also break down what each is expected to do in their respective defenses. I never said butler was a better cb than sherman was at his best. i said butler is better right now-and also will be better over the next few years. sherman will be a hall of famer . so will revis. but revis is not even a top 20 cb in the nfl right now. case closed.

• You don't seem to know what irrelevant means.
• Your argument about "only the last 2 years matter" is ludicrous (4 consecutive pro bowls for Sherman, 2013-2016, for example)
  
• You aren't really making an argument beyond "because I say so", which isn't a "case closed" situation
• If all things were equal, and everyone was happy, I'd prefer Butler (known v. unknown, need to give up assets), but I wouldn't be pretending he's better than Sherman.

 

[jimnance]

Julio made Sherman look like 2008 Deltha O'Neal.

In fairness, Julio does that to pretty much everybody. Though the Pats did an outstanding job on him in the SB-he only had 5 catches iirc and the pats had near-perfect coverage on him on each of those. Hes just a great,great wr. I used to think brown was the best, but jones is clearly #1.