Patriots Training Camp- Monday August 8th

[RobertWeathers]

This ^

Way too early to start panicking and hand wringing.

I mean, it's totally fair to conclude that the installation of the "new" offense is not going smoothy and Mac, the Oline and some of the receivers are having issues adapting. That's obvious.

But saying the team will suck this year? Good grief.

 

[Family]

My point is it's Aug 9th. We don't play a regular season game for another month plus.

In addition the team always starts measured as they try to figure things out and never firing on all cylinders in Sept. It's a process. Fans forget or don't know that.

The offense finished 7th in points with a rookie QB. Yes, we all expect Mac to improve but the cast is better around him. Improved Smith. Parker, Thornton, etc. Do people think Mac will be horrible all year based on 10 practices? Really?

I think some posters are impatient, knee-jerk in their reaction to news (positive and negative), shallow in their talent evaluation, and in constant need of real-time affirmation.

This is a place for uninhibited, unfiltered raw reaction to news about the team and that's fine.

It's also a place for a measured take on what is going on with the team.

Obviously, you are right. This isn't an end, only the beginning. And I am not using the "suck" word.

But the results are universally agreed upon as bad by everyone covering the team. Some tweets last night from reporters I respect are off the charts.

Comparing it to other training camps is pointless. The offense has never looked this bad since BB in training camp.

I'm not saying it's panic, but what they are doing is not improving with the first preseason game two days away. There needs to be huge improvement just to get back to last year's level, which I believe eventually they will.

To turn away and say they will be fine though. Fine doesn't cut it either.

 

[catent]

There's nothing to sell.

Even the fan doves covering the team say the offense is historic bad.

Historically bad ... during training camp in the second week of August? What does that mean in this context?

The practice, the repetitions, the work, are all extremely meaningful to the players/team and will affect how good they ultimately become ... but our perception of how good they are is meaningless (especially at this point in time).

I won't deny that the offense hasn't been performing well in TC (I haven't personally witnessed it, but I'll take everyone's word for it). But I know the offense struggling right now during TC doesn't have any meaningful consequences at this point in time, and I don't believe that them struggling now guarantees they'll still be struggling in September, October, November, etc (sometimes adversity/struggle is necessary to improve and I'd rather the growing pains happen now than when the games count).

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I don't have 24/7 NE sports media down here. I know what I read here. A few data points, with the third being critical and most recent.

- Mac is wearing the compression sleeve
- What folks recount as the immediately preceding events leading to the sleeve
- the performance of the O yesterday, which was beyond its pre-pad performances

I also see some chicken little-ing.

Mac's arm might be too wonky to practice on. that's got some description on here involving "career" in a bad way... not "career killing" but something in the vein of career-altering. Anyway, we're certainly not there yet, but if it continues, there might be a decision there to make. I don't know that we need it to be career-altering if he's getting screwed up by an injury that "shouldn't" keep him off the field.

Receiver doesn't seem to be the issue. In fact, our big Thing To Worry About was whether any of the receivers were any good. I think it's clear that the likely trajectory for Thornton is a bright spot... if anybody is actually going on about WR.

The D presently "looks great" so it's frustratingly hard to think about whether they're gelling or something and they really are "this good." It seems really unlikely...

We do see an old pattern emerging: Bill does something Bill's way. No coordinators. All defensive guys coaching the offense. No O-line coach (after probably having the among the best in the league for all those years.) This O breakdown comes in the presence of this particular BB unorthodoxy. I'm not making it causal, but it does make you go hmmm.

The O line is playing as its been playing. I am thinking, since all 3 QBs were having problems, that the O line is the common denominator.

I'd be cautious about "being first" in going overboard on what a "historic" collapse it is until closer to the real season. We all love when it's a finely tuned machine early. It sure isn't in this case.

Sure doesn't look GOOD though.

 

[Wozzy]

I mean, it's totally fair to conclude that the installation of the "new" offense is not going smoothy and Mac, the Oline and some of the receivers are having issues adapting. That's obvious.

But saying the team will suck this year? Good grief.

They sucked until week four of 2014, then someone said "we're on to Cincinnati" and things changed... it started with line play upfront.

That's where it needs to start now...

 

[Family]

Historically bad ... during training camp in the second week of August? What does that mean in this context?

I was referring to the poster's comment that the hostile media was "selling" the offense as bad.

They are only reporting what everyone can see on August 8th.

The context is what are they supposed to report? Hope???

 

[RobertWeathers]

Obviously, you are right. This isn't an end, only the beginning. And I am not using the "suck" word.

But the results are universally agreed upon as bad by everyone covering the team. Some tweets last night from reporters I respect are off the charts.

Comparing it to other training camps is pointless. The offense has never looked this bad since BB in training camp.

I'm not saying it's panic, but what they are doing is not improving with the first preseason game two days away. There needs to be huge improvement just to get back to last year's level, which I believe eventually they will.

To turn away and say they will be fine though. Fine doesn't cut it either.

I consider you a level-headed poster. You did not say "suck"

Those calling for them to win 6 games this upcoming season based on 10 practices know who they are.

 

[catent]

I don't have 24/7 NE sports media down here. I know what I read here. A few data points, with the third being critical and most recent.

- Mac is wearing the compression sleeve
- What folks recount as the immediately preceding events leading to the sleeve
- the performance of the O yesterday, which was beyond its pre-pad performances

I also see some chicken little-ing.

Mac's arm might be too wonky to practice on. that's got some description on here involving "career" in a bad way... not "career killing" but something in the vein of career-altering. Anyway, we're certainly not there yet, but if it continues, there might be a decision there to make. I don't know that we need it to be career-altering if he's getting screwed up by an injury that "shouldn't" keep him off the field.

Receiver doesn't seem to be the issue. In fact, our big Thing To Worry About was whether any of the receivers were any good. I think it's clear that the likely trajectory for Thornton is a bright spot... if anybody is actually going on about WR.

The D presently "looks great" so it's frustratingly hard to think about whether they're gelling or something and they really are "this good." It seems really unlikely...

We do see an old pattern emerging: Bill does something Bill's way. No coordinators. All defensive guys coaching the offense. No O-line coach (after probably having the among the best in the league for all those years.) This O breakdown comes in the presence of this particular BB unorthodoxy. I'm not making it causal, but it does make you go hmmm.

The O line is playing as its been playing. I am thinking, since all 3 QBs were having problems, that the O line is the common denominator.

I'd be cautious about "being first" in going overboard on what a "historic" collapse it is until closer to the real season. We all love when it's a finely tuned machine early. It sure isn't in this case.

Sure doesn't look GOOD though.

You've jumped to a lot conclusions. Mac is injured and this is the cause of his personal struggles. Mac is getting screwed up by this injury that "shouldn't keep him off the field". I'm not sure those things are supported by much evidence beyond the fact Mac is wearing a sleeve and the offense is getting poor reviews, which could be explained by many other things.

"No OL coach". This is not true. Matt Patricia and Billy Yates are titled "Senior Football Advisor / Offensive Line" and "Assistant Offensive Line", respectively.

"All defensive guys coaching the offense". This is also not true. Joe Judge played quarterback at Mississippi State. Troy Brown was a wide receiver. Ross Douglas was a running back at the University of Michigan, who joined the Patriots' coaching staff via a fellowship program.

Offense is experiencing a "breakdown" ... during the second week of training camp, in August. I'm not sure how a team can experience a "breakdown" during training camp, short of constant in-fighting (which isn't the case here). The purpose of training camp is to practice, train, teach, learn, and get better. No one is keeping score. I'd rather the offense experience growing pains now than when the games count.

"O line is playing as its been playing" ... this confuses me, since you live in Virginia, and therefore presumably haven't been attending nor closely observing practices. (I also live in Virginia and haven't attended any of the practices this training camp, so I don't have a strongly formed opinion about how the offensive line has performed during training camp).

"We all love when it's a finely tuned machine early. It sure isn't in this case" ... this feels overstated. It's August 9th. We haven't seen any joint practices, let alone a preseason game. It's not early, it's prehistoric. And do we all love when it's a finely tuned machine early? I don't really care what the team looks like during training camp because the purpose isn't to look good during practice, the purpose is to improve and get better.

There are many variables/dynamics at play that I am unaware of. There is no scoreboard to measure success/progress. There are a lot of elements we are not privy to. Would it be nice to hear some positive reports regarding the offense? Yes. Do I care about the offense being a finely tuned machine during the second week of August? Nope.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't have 24/7 NE sports media down here. I know what I read here. A few data points, with the third being critical and most recent.

- Mac is wearing the compression sleeve
- What folks recount as the immediately preceding events leading to the sleeve
- the performance of the O yesterday, which was beyond its pre-pad performances

I also see some chicken little-ing.

Mac's arm might be too wonky to practice on. that's got some description on here involving "career" in a bad way... not "career killing" but something in the vein of career-altering. Anyway, we're certainly not there yet, but if it continues, there might be a decision there to make. I don't know that we need it to be career-altering if he's getting screwed up by an injury that "shouldn't" keep him off the field.

Receiver doesn't seem to be the issue. In fact, our big Thing To Worry About was whether any of the receivers were any good. I think it's clear that the likely trajectory for Thornton is a bright spot... if anybody is actually going on about WR.

The D presently "looks great" so it's frustratingly hard to think about whether they're gelling or something and they really are "this good." It seems really unlikely...

We do see an old pattern emerging: Bill does something Bill's way. No coordinators. All defensive guys coaching the offense. No O-line coach (after probably having the among the best in the league for all those years.) This O breakdown comes in the presence of this particular BB unorthodoxy. I'm not making it causal, but it does make you go hmmm.

The O line is playing as its been playing. I am thinking, since all 3 QBs were having problems, that the O line is the common denominator.

I'd be cautious about "being first" in going overboard on what a "historic" collapse it is until closer to the real season. We all love when it's a finely tuned machine early. It sure isn't in this case.

Sure doesn't look GOOD though.

 

[PatsFan2]

Well the Offense or Offensive concerns are already noted we have to wonder is it the Offense as a whole?? I don't think the Patriots' Defense especially the back end is the second coming of the 85' Bears Defense. Journey man CB's should not be sticking with Devante Parker I'm so sorry Bourne and Agholor might be struggling. All the sweet a talk about Agholor's route running great route runners get open consistently blah blah blah. J Meyers can go somewhere else with his five yard catches and no yac I can't wait to see the Offense against another Defense.

 

[PatsFan2]

That is telling if Bourne and Agholor can't separate from Journey man CB's I am sure T Thornton can. Maybe our Offensive problems lie with our WR's where is Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith?? You're telling me our LB's and Safeties are blanketing them?? We want our money back!

 

[ashley]

That is telling if Bourne and Agholor can't separate from Journey man CB's I am sure T Thornton can. Maybe our Offensive problems lie with our WR's where is Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith?? You're telling me our LB's and Safeties are blanketing them?? We want our money back!

From all reports Aghlor is having a really good camp and Jonnu has been one of the best offensive players so far. Thornton you know about how well he is doing recently and is impressing. Yesterday was the first report about Bourne being a little disappointing. I think our skilled players will be fine, it's the O-line that needs to improve.

 

[Bruins29]

That is telling if Bourne and Agholor can't separate from Journey man CB's I am sure T Thornton can. Maybe our Offensive problems lie with our WR's where is Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith?? You're telling me our LB's and Safeties are blanketing them?? We want our money back!

I am sure your parents want their money back.

Shut up

 

[n6249c]

the offense mught be struggling mightily but i am sure a lot of the media like to see it fail just because of pure hatred for patricia and judge and the choices to run the offense . its an easy thing to sell .

And hatred for BB as well. Success is his only armor against media resentment that he doesn’t kowtow to them like they feel he should.

 

[n6249c]

I think some posters are impatient, knee-jerk in their reaction to news (positive and negative), shallow in their talent evaluation, and in constant need of real-time affirmation.

I think you nailed that description of some unfortunately verbose contributors.

 

[PScottman]

This is a place for uninhibited, unfiltered raw reaction to news about the team and that's fine.

Uninhibited? I can barely handle the majority of posters (myself included) fully clothed!

 

[*ChungFu*]

I am somewhat okay with the current growing pains. A steady build is better than meteoric rises followed by inflated egos and precipitous falls. The defense isn't letting up-GOOD!
Maybe BBs kids know what they are doing and will continue to whip the Offense into shape. It's the recent Defenses that have overwhelmed only to eventually fall flat.
My hope is that the Oline will bond over the challenges and meet them head on.

 

[PScottman]

I don't believe that them struggling now guarantees they'll still be struggling in September, October, November, etc (sometimes adversity/struggle is necessary to improve and I'd rather the growing pains happen now than when the games count).

No, it absolutely doesn't guarantee future struggle. '

The concern I have is based on Mac last year where you could visibly see in his decision making an immediate loss of confidence (especially in the line) and it affected his play over large swaths of the game.

This isn't unique to him as just about any QB if running for their life or shwacked with a huge hit early plays worse, but as a young player that confidence, once lost (if it is in this camp) is sometimes difficult to get back (i.e. it takes one blindside hit to lose it, but a whole game staying clean to maybe get it back).

My own confidence in the OL is suspect given last year...and you can say injuries and COVID all day, but what so far this year points to THAT porous play (especially early in the season) being the aberration versus the norm?

 

[n6249c]

Uninhibited? I can barely handle the majority of posters (myself included) fully clothed!

You must be uninhibited to be handling other posters even fully clothed…

also, pro tip: handling yourself fully clothed is not the best way to do it.

 

[PScottman]

also, pro tip: handling yourself fully clothed is not the best way to do it.

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