PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Patriots Sign WR Kenny Britt (Edit)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Perhaps. But even so, a jet sweep to White? Dorsett wouldn't be a better choice for this play?

In a vacuum yes.

But then you have to consider the opponents formation, the matchups, the field position, what other alternative audibles could be and the flexibility that White gives if you wanna go quick right after that play and all of this becomes murky.
 
He did. He was playing and contributing in a week. That is proof you can come in and contribute quickly. Duh. Regardless you are LYING when you said MULTIPLE TIMES that I said Floyd MASTERED THE SYSTEM.
Are you capable of admitting that?

So you can’t show me where I said Floyd mastered the system. We both can see you attributed that to me numerous times and you won’t admit you were wrong. Is that where we stand because frankly I have no interest in a conversation with someone who plays those games.

Because that is the actual day it happened.
To summarize.
You said why didn’t Floyd come back.
I said
Edelman
Cooks
Mitchell
Hogan
Amendola

And you replied that Floyd was gone before cooks was here or anendoka was settled or whatever that means.
You are wrong. B.B. could have signed Floyd up to 5/9. Not to mention he was in jail.
You were wrong. You are playing gymnastics with the truth to avoid admitting that. That’s on you.
Your game is to simply multi-quote over and over and try to trip someone up on so many different topics that they finally give up, losing sight as to what the original difference of opinion was, and ultimately no longer even caring. That’s where I’m at.

Instead of having simple football discussions with other interested fans, you use this place as your personal debate platform in an attempt to “win” some imaginary game that you’re playing with yourself.
 
In a vacuum yes.

But then you have to consider the opponents formation, the matchups, the field position, what other alternative audibles could be and the flexibility that White gives if you wanna go quick right after that play and all of this becomes murky.


White looked off on that play. I wonder if he'll break it down for the public.
 

I would venture a guess that Cooks was acquired and Amendola re-signed because the intent was to move on from Floyd, for whatever reason(s). I can't imagine that Belichick makes personnel decisions in a vacuum, clearly the roster moves that prefaced them moving on from Floyd were related to their intent to move on from Floyd.

This team routinely drafts players a year in advance, at a position where a current player has an expiring contract who is unlikely to be re-signed, in order to compensate for that foreseen loss. To imagine that they didn't apply a similar approach to the Floyd situation is hard for me to believe.
 
And you replied that Floyd was gone before cooks was here or anendoka was settled or whatever that means.
You are wrong. B.B. could have signed Floyd up to 5/9. Not to mention he was in jail.
You were wrong. You are playing gymnastics with the truth to avoid admitting that. That’s on you.

Is your implication that the Floyd decision was made in a vacuum, without any consideration of the other available players, and that the preceding roster moves were entirely unrelated to the Floyd decision?
 
I would venture a guess that Cooks was acquired and Amendola re-signed because the intent was to move on from Floyd, for whatever reason(s). I can't imagine that Belichick makes personnel decisions in a vacuum, clearly the roster moves that prefaced them moving on from Floyd were related to their intent to move on from Floyd.

This team routinely drafts players a year in advance, at a position where a current player has an expiring contract who is unlikely to be re-signed, in order to compensate for that foreseen loss. To imagine that they didn't apply a similar approach to the Floyd situation is hard for me to believe.

It seems to me that ROI and timing may be significant factors in the value calculation for a specific player in a given set of roster circumstances.

Floyd (6025/225) is a taller, heavier pass-catcher. In his nearly five seasons in ARZ before being acquired y the Pats, he'd been ARZ's #3 pass-catcher with a 48%-58% catch rate, good for 45-55 receptions/550-850 yds per season and a ypc in the 13yd to 18yd range. He was acquired by the Pats in week-14, after Gronk had been IR'd in wk-13, to cover after Amendola also went out with an ankle injury (wk-14 thru wk-17).

Floyd practiced in wk-14, but was inactive. In wk-15, he played 23% of the snaps and caught 1/2 tgts for 6 yds. In wk-16, he played 73% of the snaps and caught 3/4 tgts for 36 yds and a TD (overall, a much better catch rate than he'd had in ARZ, albeit at a generally shorter tgt range). It's highly unlikely that he mastered the system or anything more than a handful of plays (specifically chosen for him) in that time.

This past spring, the Pats had Hogan, Mitchell, Edelman and Amendola in hand. Mitchell was a very promising youngster, but Edelman and Amendola were both already over 30.

So, it seems likely that the question for the Pats during FA was whether or not to spend the time, effort and roster spot on attempting to teach the entire system and playbook to another soon-to-be 28-yr-old WR, or on a younger prospect who might eventually replace Edelman or Amendola for a longer term. In terms of money, it was likely a choice between paying a younger, more accomplished, veteran "trainee" (Cooks) at roughly the same amount that Floyd was likely to require, and/or less than that to a couple of rookie prospects.

[NOTE: Floyd's 1-year contract in Minny ended up being $1.5M that could escalate (with incentives) to $3M if he produced at the low end of his production range in ARZ, and to $6M if he produced at the high end of that range. For whatever reason, he's missed the low incentive mark by a mile.]
----------
The Britt acquisition and circumstance seems fairly analogous to that of Floyd last season.

Although Gronk and Amendola are healthy this time ...
- Allen/Hollister combined aren't matching the production of Bennett from last season
- Dorsett isn't (yet) matching the production of Mitchell from last season
- the Lewis/Burkhead/White combo, while very good, isn't quite matching Edelman's poduction
- Hogan, though not "OUT", seems like he may need another couple weeks to return to his pre-injury production level

So, the "viable passing target deficit" is currently very similar to what it was at this time last season, even if there isn't quite the direct one-to-one correspondence.

Britt (6027/220) is also a taller, heavier pass-catcher. In his eight previous seasons with the Titans and Rams, (when healthy) he's been mostly a #2 pass-catcher with a 50%-60% catch rate, good for 40-50 receptions/600-800 yds/season, and a ypc in the 14yd to 19yd range.

It seems highly likely that he'll be getting pretty much the same, limited level of training and specific spot usage that Floyd did at this time last season.

And, even though Britt is technically signed through 2018, he turns 30 next September, so the long-term "investment" questions with him next spring are likely to be very similar to those regarding Floyd last spring - perhaps even more acute since Edelman, Amendola, Gronk, Bennett and Hogan will all be a year older.
 
In a vacuum yes.

But then you have to consider the opponents formation, the matchups, the field position, what other alternative audibles could be and the flexibility that White gives if you wanna go quick right after that play and all of this becomes murky.

White had 35 snaps and four touches. Lewis and Burkhead combined for 35 snaps and 20 touches. It seems likely that White was in pass-pro for a significant portion of his snaps, a role that Dorsett wouldn't have been able to fill.

OTOH, Hogan had 55 snaps and had minimal production. It seems to me that Dorsett could have taken five of those snaps and taken a jet sweep on one of them.
 
It's highly unlikely that he mastered the system or anything more than a handful of plays (specifically chosen for him) in that time.

That`s the general idea, learn/master certain number of plays that could come in handy if the opportunity presents itself or be somebody who will draw coverage because of his abilities/previous NFL record. Floyd obviously managed to grasp a portion of the playbook, that is why he had 4 targets against the Dolphins last year. Belichick is probably hoping Britt could do the same (or at least provide a necessary distraction), because he is proven veteran, not some guy from the PS who was promoted due to the lack of healthy, viable options (e.g Chris Harper hype train). Dorsett is not getting the job done as he is essentially Cooks 2.0, his primary asset is his speed, if you don`t throw to him downfield he is pretty much useless.
 
I would venture a guess that Cooks was acquired and Amendola re-signed because the intent was to move on from Floyd, for whatever reason(s). I can't imagine that Belichick makes personnel decisions in a vacuum, clearly the roster moves that prefaced them moving on from Floyd were related to their intent to move on from Floyd.

This team routinely drafts players a year in advance, at a position where a current player has an expiring contract who is unlikely to be re-signed, in order to compensate for that foreseen loss. To imagine that they didn't apply a similar approach to the Floyd situation is hard for me to believe.
Sure but that isn’t the point.
The point was the poster asked why Floyd wasn’t back here and I said because we had Edelman, cooks, Mitchell, hogan and amendola.
The poster replied that Floyd was gone before we had those players and I responded with this post to show that was wrong.
 
Is your implication that the Floyd decision was made in a vacuum, without any consideration of the other available players, and that the preceding roster moves were entirely unrelated to the Floyd decision?
My implication is the opposite, that we acquired cooks and resigned amendola so were loaded at the position and had no room for Floyd.
 
Overall, I hope this doesn't mean M. Mitchell had a setback. Maybe he was still rusty and having some lingering issues. I would say then its better to rest him and rehab it more so he will be 100% next season and prolong his career.
 
I think we all know that Floyd was good at one point and that they expected him to take over as the WR1 for Fitzgerald, but we’re talking about the past two years.

In 2016, he played poorly for Arizona, catching only 33 balls. Since then, he caught a few balls here and then went on to Minnesota to catch 9 more passes. His last two years have sucked due to poor play and off the field issues. If he was 1/4 of the player that Andy Johnson is suggesting, he wouldn’t have made it out of Foxborough.

First of all, even though I can't see the comments you've been responding to, it wasn't difficult at all to guess who was making them. I dropped out of that "rigged" game months ago. Not worth my time, and not worth the space those comments were taking up in so many threads.

I have no idea what ARZ's ultimate intentions were with Floyd. He was in the final year of his rookie contract when he was released and subsequently acquired by the Pats (as a temp), so that may have been a factor in their decision last season.

His production thru 13 games in ARZ last season was on a pace to more or less match his production from four of his five previous seasons there.

Beyond that, it's a matter of personal opinion and about how one judges players in general. You seem to be saying that Floyd sucks. Your "debate" opponent seems to be saying that he's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

For me, Floyd seems to have been acceptably productive in ARZ as a #3 pass-catcher - no more, no less. Perhaps its a flaw of mine, but I have great difficulty making extreme judgements about a player one way or the other, and have an irresistible urge to evaluate the potential usefulness of guys in the context of the roles they've played, and in comparison to other guys who've played similar roles under similar circumstances.

I don't often have many expectations about players that I can later be disappointed about and then condemn them for failing to meet. I try not to idolize any human being in any context. Since we all have feet of clay, it seems pointless.

However, I will try to determine and discuss the potential short term/long term upside of a specific player/prospect in the context of various roles he might be able to fill in the Pats system. Unfortunately, even my mention of such potential positives about a guy is often misinterpreted as being some sort of absolute endorsement.

Anyway, I can't say that Floyd "sucked" or was "great" with the Pats given the small sample size and the likelihood that he only had time to learn/practice a relative handful of plays that he could easily be plugged into. There's no freakin' way he "learned the Pats offensive system" that quickly. In any case, he apparently accomplished more or less what the Pats needed him to as a late-season temp. However, the potential ROI for retaining him another season longer was apparently not as good as other options that the Pats had available to them last spring.

In Minny this season, all I know is that he's utterly failed to meet the minimum incentives in his contract, which were set at the low end of the range of his typical production in ARZ. I really don't have enough information to speculate on a reason for that, and I don't have sufficient interest to invest the time in figuring that out.
 
Overall, I hope this doesn't mean M. Mitchell had a setback. Maybe he was still rusty and having some lingering issues. I would say then its better to rest him and rehab it more so he will be 100% next season and prolong his career.

I don't think it necessarily means that Mitchell had a setback. The Pats appear to have a need for additional viable receiving targets right now, and clearly Mitchell isn't ready to contribute right now.

Considering how long its been since Mitchell experienced a full-speed, full-contact team practice, it seem likely that he wouldn't be sufficiently "game-ready" until the playoffs, even if he began practicing on the roster exemption this week.
 
In other signing news ...

 
My guess is he gets cut in two weeks.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
MORSE: 2026 Patriots Schedule, Win Projection and UDFA Bonuses
2026 Patriots Schedule Sets Up Tough Start In Vrabel’s Second Season
MORSE: Patriots Rookie Mini Camp and Signings
Patriots News 05-10, Patriots Rookie Minicamp Starts
MORSE: Way Too Early 53-man Roster Projection
Several Remaining Patriots Free Agents Still Seeking Homes
ESPN Insider on Patriots A.J. Brown Trade: ‘I Think He Knows Where His Future is Headed’
Former Patriots Staffer Reveals Surprising Person Behind Two Key Player Cornerstone Additions in 2021
Patriots News 05-03, A.J. Brown Concerns, Vrabel’s Saga
MORSE: Clearing the Notebook from the Patriots Draft
Back
Top