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Patriots Make No More Moves at the Trade Deadline, What About the Edge?


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Seems to me that this board has been discussing the pass rush situation since its inception, BB has had many opportunities to find the answer that media and posters want, but BB has chosen a different direction..

Seems that BB is more concerned about keeping the edge, rather than using that spot as a pass rush opportunity.. seem to remember that is one reason why Jamie Collins was traded to Cleveland, because he chose to freelance.. Chandler Jones also??
 
Seems to me that this board has been discussing the pass rush situation since its inception, BB has had many opportunities to find the answer that media and posters want, but BB has chosen a different direction..

Seems that BB is more concerned about keeping the edge, rather than using that spot as a pass rush opportunity.. seem to remember that is one reason why Jamie Collins was traded to Cleveland, because he chose to freelance.. Chandler Jones also??
The main issue with both is that they would eventually become more expensive than BB felt they’d be worth.
 
Seems to me that this board has been discussing the pass rush situation since its inception, BB has had many opportunities to find the answer that media and posters want, but BB has chosen a different direction..

Seems that BB is more concerned about keeping the edge, rather than using that spot as a pass rush opportunity.. seem to remember that is one reason why Jamie Collins was traded to Cleveland, because he chose to freelance.. Chandler Jones also??

I agree with @UptownPatsFan that upcoming contracts with both Collins and Jones were a significant issue. However, Jones didn't seem particularly consistent about edge-contain to me (he dove inside the tackle a lot), and he seemed to lose track of where the ball was fairly frequently, even toward the end of his Pats tenure. Not exactly a "one-trick pony", just not doing enough of "the other things" well enough to warrant giving him a gazillion dollars.
 
Chandler Jones punched his ticket out of town the moment he walked into the Foxborough police station.

As for Collins, I still believe that Bill should've let him play out his contract here, then take the compensatory pick next year. It's certainly not as if he did anything with the pick he received from Cleveland anyway.
 
Chandler Jones punched his ticket out of town the moment he walked into the Foxborough police station.

As for Collins, I still believe that Bill should've let him play out his contract here, then take the compensatory pick next year. It's certainly not as if he did anything with the pick he received from Cleveland anyway.
I wish their was a sad rating.
 
Chandler Jones punched his ticket out of town the moment he walked into the Foxborough police station.

As for Collins, I still believe that Bill should've let him play out his contract here, then take the compensatory pick next year. It's certainly not as if he did anything with the pick he received from Cleveland anyway.

Jones, agreed.
I'd agree completely except that I suspect with Collins there was possibly something along the lines of open disrespect of the coaching staff over style of defense. If so, you can't let that happen.
 
Seems to me that this board has been discussing the pass rush situation since its inception, BB has had many opportunities to find the answer that media and posters want, but BB has chosen a different direction..
THIS is an important aspect to any discussion of a pass rush for the Pats. "setting the edge" has ALWAYS been the priority for any DE/OLB here in NE. It has NEVER been the glamour position that the outside edge rusher has become for other defensive systems. Its the main reason Chris Long is in Philly, and Koney Ealy failed here. It's also the likely reason Freeney is in Seattle and never thought of coming here. Von Miller would have clearly been a great player here as he has been in Denver. But that being said, I doubt he'd have the same sack totals playing in THIS defense as he's had with the Broncos

I think we sometimes forget that for the most part, BB has rarely had a "featured" pass rusher. Willie McGinest might have been the most talented guy, but even he had only ONE double digit sack year under BB. And in those years where the Pats defense was among the best every years (2003-2007), while the Pats were among the top 5 in sacks, it was generally done by committee rather than one or two individuals getting most of the sacks.

With the group we have now, there are no great INDIVIDUAL pass rushers. Flowers is the closest we have and other teams know it and they are making it very hard for him to excel. The rest are just hard trying power guys like Wise and Guy just looking to push the pocket and create pressure. The result has been just 16 sacks which puts us just below the middle of the league (ie the Jets are #18 with 18 sacks in 9 games).

The fact is I believe that BB isn't that worried about the lack of actual sacks. I think he will play to the strength of this defense which is the 2ndary. I think the key stats for him are how many "pressures" the DL creates, how quickly the QB is forced to throw, and how often his forced to reset.

Sometimes we forget that Sacks are the happy result that are made possible by a number of things that have little to do with the individual pass rushers, but rather how well the pass defenders do THEIR jobs or how well the coaches (in their preparation) have done is creating the right match ups for that particular formation and down/distance situation.

I believe strongly that BB believes that sacks are truly a team stat, and he has shown over the last 2 decades that they CAN be "created" within a team concept. So for that reason, I don't think we are likely to see anything different over the next 8 games. This team will get about 2 sacks a game, get inconsistent pressure on the QB, and still win most of them.

It is often frustrating to watch as fans, but it is the result of a critical core philosophy that Bellichick demands of his defense. And given what he has available for talent it shouldn't surprise us that a great majority of the fast pressure we are going to see is going to have to be manufactured.
 
Marsh has difficulties setting the edge. He lacks some size there. It might not be his best position to succeed in NFL. He is great ST player and seems to be good weapon as situational pass rusher. Without depth at position he is “forced“ to play DE on a pretty regular basis lately and subsequently his snaps on STs are down.

Hightower, Langi were backup plans after Ninko and Rivers went out. After they were lost for the season no roster move addressed the position. McClellin was possibly another option they counted on. Out. No one really replaced Ealy.. KVN jumped in a bit last game but with LB position getting thinner..

Now you have two straight DEs on the roster (one of them is rookie w injury history) + deactivated Grissom as only “backup“. Then you have “tweener“ Marsh and two big DLs that can help outside (Guy, A.Butler) .. but have to first help inside on another very thin position.

Experienced and obviously still very productive pass rusher on a cheap vet deal like Freeney or Lamarr Houston would seem welcome in such situation and certainly a roster upgrade over inactive Grissom who can easily sit on PS.. Plus they have size.
 
Marsh has difficulties setting the edge. He lacks some size there. It might not be his best position to succeed in NFL. He is great ST player and seems to be good weapon as situational pass rusher. Without depth at position he is “forced“ to play DE on a pretty regular basis lately and subsequently his snaps on STs are down.

Hightower, Langi were backup plans after Ninko and Rivers went out. After they were lost for the season no roster move addressed the position. McClellin was possibly another option they counted on. Out. No one really replaced Ealy.. KVN jumped in a bit last game but with LB position getting thinner..

Now you have two straight DEs on the roster (one of them is rookie w injury history) + deactivated Grissom as only “backup“. Then you have “tweener“ Marsh and two big DLs that can help outside (Guy, A.Butler) .. but have to first help inside on another very thin position.

Experienced and obviously still very productive pass rusher on a cheap vet deal like Freeney or Lamarr Houston would seem welcome in such situation and certainly a roster upgrade over inactive Grissom who can easily sit on PS.. Plus they have size.
Houston is a Texan.
 
THIS is an important aspect to any discussion of a pass rush for the Pats. "setting the edge" has ALWAYS been the priority for any DE/OLB here in NE. It has NEVER been the glamour position that the outside edge rusher has become for other defensive systems. Its the main reason Chris Long is in Philly, and Koney Ealy failed here. It's also the likely reason Freeney is in Seattle and never thought of coming here. Von Miller would have clearly been a great player here as he has been in Denver. But that being said, I doubt he'd have the same sack totals playing in THIS defense as he's had with the Broncos

I think we sometimes forget that for the most part, BB has rarely had a "featured" pass rusher. Willie McGinest might have been the most talented guy, but even he had only ONE double digit sack year under BB. And in those years where the Pats defense was among the best every years (2003-2007), while the Pats were among the top 5 in sacks, it was generally done by committee rather than one or two individuals getting most of the sacks.

With the group we have now, there are no great INDIVIDUAL pass rushers. Flowers is the closest we have and other teams know it and they are making it very hard for him to excel. The rest are just hard trying power guys like Wise and Guy just looking to push the pocket and create pressure. The result has been just 16 sacks which puts us just below the middle of the league (ie the Jets are #18 with 18 sacks in 9 games).

The fact is I believe that BB isn't that worried about the lack of actual sacks. I think he will play to the strength of this defense which is the 2ndary. I think the key stats for him are how many "pressures" the DL creates, how quickly the QB is forced to throw, and how often his forced to reset.

Sometimes we forget that Sacks are the happy result that are made possible by a number of things that have little to do with the individual pass rushers, but rather how well the pass defenders do THEIR jobs or how well the coaches (in their preparation) have done is creating the right match ups for that particular formation and down/distance situation.

I believe strongly that BB believes that sacks are truly a team stat, and he has shown over the last 2 decades that they CAN be "created" within a team concept. So for that reason, I don't think we are likely to see anything different over the next 8 games. This team will get about 2 sacks a game, get inconsistent pressure on the QB, and still win most of them.

It is often frustrating to watch as fans, but it is the result of a critical core philosophy that Bellichick demands of his defense. And given what he has available for talent it shouldn't surprise us that a great majority of the fast pressure we are going to see is going to have to be manufactured.
Reminds me of Lou Gorman babbling "What would we do with Willie McGee?"

What would we do with Dwight Freeney?

Uhhh…get off the field more often on 3rd down?
 
Reminds me of Lou Gorman babbling "What would we do with Willie McGee?"

What would we do with Dwight Freeney?

Uhhh…get off the field more often on 3rd down?
You act as if Freeney was an option that the Pats turned down. For all the reasons I gave, he was NEVER an option here because he's now just a one trick pony, and that "trick" isn't one that gets played much in NE. Freeney's not here for the same reason that Kapernick isn't here. Those players' skill sets, don't match what is needed here. But even more to the point, Freeney isn't here because he would never be happy or that productive in this system.
 
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