Patriots Hall of Fame Finalists - Edelman, Mankins & Vinatieri (Vinatieri vs Edelman)

[maust]

Should Edelman be in: Yes.
Should AV be in: Yes.
Who should be in first: Yes.

 

[TheRainMaker]

The only thing Maroney was # 1 in was break dancing

Best break dancer of all time and needs the respect of being the first before Le’Veon Bell made it famous. As soon as he received the ball from Tom, his dancing mode got activated. He had talent, but he had an odd urge to dance and run unto piles when thr opportunity to take outside was there. There were rare instances you’d see what he was capable of. Very frustrating player.

 

[sb1]

Let's compromise... Mankins gets in.

/thread

 

[Pape]

Let's compromise... Mankins gets in.

/thread

nah... per posters here, hes got like three strikes already...
- he's a guard
- has no rings
- he didn't play his whole career here

His line starts behind the Kicker...

 

[Steve102]

nah... per posters here, hes got like three strikes already...
- he's a guard
- has no rings
- he didn't play his whole career here

His line starts behind the Kicker...

Accurate.

 

[mike_usagisan]

nah... per posters here, hes got like three strikes already...
- he's a guard
- has no rings
- he didn't play his whole career here

His line starts behind the Kicker...

I feel like the narrative on Mankins and Welker would be so much different around here if a certain defensive back had made the easy interception in the Super Bowl in '07.

 

[Steve102]

I feel like the narrative on Mankins and Welker would be so much different around here if a certain defensive back had made the easy interception in the Super Bowl in '07.

All those guys would be immortal. All 53. Not to mention the 1972 Dolphins could eff off.

 

[Pape]

All those guys would be immortal. All 53. Not to mention the 1972 Dolphins could eff off.

Well at least they are no longer the only undefeated team in the league

 

[TheRainMaker]

I feel like the narrative on Mankins and Welker would be so much different around here if a certain defensive back had made the easy interception in the Super Bowl in '07.

He could've moved on and came through on the next play by keeping with his man in Tyree. Manning would've most likely held onto the ball and taken a sack making it 4th and 10.

It would not shock me if Bill had no intention of trying to re-sign Samuel after that game.

Just went to torture myself and Rodney Harrison was the first on the drive right before the 2 minute warning that a pass went off his fingertips. His reaction after said it all. Samuel was 2nd at 1:16. Brandon Merriweather was the last to drop an INT after the Tyree catch with 46 seconds left. People don't realize how bad Eli Manning was during that game. If anyone cares to re-watch the game, you'll see he could've thrown about 5 picks that day. The Pats uncharacteristically kept dropping them.

 

[mike_usagisan]

He could've moved on and came through on the next play by keeping with his man in Tyree. Manning would've most likely held onto the ball and taken a sack making it 4th and 10.

It would not shock me if Bill had no intention of trying to re-sign Samuel after that game.

Just went to torture myself and Rodney Harrison was the first on the drive right before the 2 minute warning that a pass went off his fingertips. His reaction after said it all. Samuel was 2nd at 1:16. Brandon Merriweather was the last to drop an INT after the Tyree catch with 46 seconds left. People don't realize how bad Eli Manning was during that game. If anyone cares to re-watch the game, you'll see he could've thrown about 5 picks that day. The Pats uncharacteristically kept dropping them.

It's just interesting to me that teams that don't have the Super Bowl wins that we do recognize the great players based on their whole season/career performances. We tend to base them on how they did in only a handful of games.

I'm not saying we shouldn't, but I do think we should give players like Welker and Mankins their due, even though they didn't win it all. That said, I'd still vote Edelman or AV in first.

 

[Ring 6]

You believe that Edelman belongs in the PHOF before AV.

You have died on some foolish hills throughout the history of PF. Com, but this one is defending an ant mound.

Any person who understand the game does too.

Triumph thinks kickers are as important as QBs.

 

[Ring 6]

When it comes to PHOF, the poster Triumph is referring to believes AV's admission in the hall a) should be deprioritized after position players and b) he was an average kicker who had one great game which is another way of saying he shouldn't even get in.

I didn’t say deprioritize I said position players are more valuable.
I didn’t say he shouldn’t be in. It’s a fact that he was average in terms of FG % in the regular season and post season. It’s also a fact he had the greatest day ever by a kicker.
I don’t see how any of those things are debatable.
You still haven’t respond to which players on the list from dynasty 1 he should be ranked ahead of.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't know about all that but as it specifically relates to Jules he definitely deserves it more than AV.

Of course he does.

 

[Ring 6]

What would possibly make you think this is so foolish? There was a vote and the popular opinion is that Jules belongs in first. There was also a poll on this board and same thing Jules won.

Consider who you are talking to, and recognize common sense isn’t in play.

 

[Ring 6]

It's just interesting to me that teams that don't have the Super Bowl wins that we do recognize the great players based on their whole season/career performances. We tend to base them on how they did in only a handful of games.

I'm not saying we shouldn't, but I do think we should give players like Welker and Mankins their due, even though they didn't win it all. That said, I'd still vote Edelman or AV in first.

I look at it this way. I think the team HOF is based upon the contributions of the players to your franchise. If you never won a SB the total career of the players are the contribution.
But when your franchise history includes 6 Championships the players who contributed to those are the contributions you want to recognize.
Where it kind of goes off the tracks is when it becomes a popularity contest.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I look at it this way. I think the team HOF is based upon the contributions of the players to your franchise. If you never won a SB the total career of the players are the contribution.
But when your franchise history includes 6 Championships the players who contributed to those are the contributions you want to recognize.
Where it kind of goes off the tracks is when it becomes a popularity contest.

Well, and it's the comparison of two pieces of a team without any kind of criteria other than what the person makes up for themselves. So yeah, popularity it is.

 

[signbabybrady]

I feel like the narrative on Mankins and Welker would be so much different around here if a certain defensive back had made the easy interception in the Super Bowl in '07.

That DB would get his own consideration too.

 

[maust]

Well, and it's the comparison of two pieces of a team without any kind of criteria other than what the person makes up for themselves. So yeah, popularity it is.

Right?!! People presenting arguments like this is a popular vote or something
You know what's most popular? F'n Lombardis and the guys that perform in the clutch that make them happen.
Or at least that's what's popular with most of us here in Pats land.

Diminishing the man in the arena who brought it on home is just... numb (please note the use of a moderation approved word and feel free to insert your own)

You know what else is numb? Post after post arguing a now moot point. Or at least it seems numb to me.

 

[Pape]

I feel like the narrative on Mankins and Welker would be so much different around here if a certain defensive back had made the easy interception in the Super Bowl in '07.

well, ASSante ****ed that one up, so, it is what it is...

Mankins was always going to have less of a chance to get in going against a position player... the vast majority of people overlook the contributions of role players in favor of flashy stats they can point to on a sheet and say "see" - doesn't always happen like that, such as the case of Matt Light, but I consider that to be a rare occurrence because he is held in such high regard as Brady blind side protector - Its part of the reason Adam was passed over in favor of Julian Edelman... with another, and probably the best explanation why he is in and AV is not - the dude is just flat out loved in New England...

AV might make it, he might not... depends on the relative strengths of the future ballots... As of right now, the only way Mankins is going to make it is as a Senior Committee selection... would be eligible for that 25 years after his retirement...

 

[signbabybrady]

well, ASSante ****ed that one up, so, it is what it is...

Mankins was always going to have less of a chance to get in going against a position player... the vast majority of people overlook the contributions of role players in favor of flashy stats they can point to on a sheet and say "see" - doesn't always happen like that, such as the case of Matt Light, but I consider that to be a rare occurrence because he is held in such high regard as Brady blind side protector - Its part of the reason Adam was passed over in favor of Julian Edelman... with another, and probably the best explanation why he is in and AV is not - the dude is just flat out loved in New England...

AV might make it, he might not... depends on the relative strengths of the future ballots... As of right now, the only way Mankins is going to make it is as a Senior Committee selection... would be eligible for that 25 years after his retirement...

I think Mankins, AV, and even Wes will all get in eventually. AV probably really soon. Wes and Mankins will have to wait out DMac, Hightower and a few others but their day will come.