Patriots GM Search

[Rob0729]

The ESPN guy, Wickersham, reported that belichick decided to trade 10 last off season and Kraft told him no, our Qb.

Wickersham did not report Kraft told him no. Wickersham wrote that Robert wanted to see what Mac could do with O'Brien and expressed his desire to keep him, but did not stop Belichick from actually trading him if he wanted to.

 

[Ring 6]

Wickersham did not report Kraft told him no. Wickersham wrote that Robert wanted to see what Mac could do with O'Brien and expressed his desire to keep him, but did not stop Belichick from actually trading him if he wanted to.

Yeah right.

 

[upstater1]

Interesting

I understand why being under Mayo might be an excellent career move for Steve, but there's too much bad blood between the Krafts and Belichick; it will fall on the son when he fails. And the son will be a source for Belichick inside Foxboro.

These are two among many reasons why this is a very bad idea.

 

[upstater1]

the last Pro bowl quality skill player we drafted was Gronk in 2010. thats 14 years ago.

that's crazy for any NFL team....

But that's because we DIDN'T draft those guys.

After Dobson, they took one WR in the top 3 rounds until Tyquan. That's 10 years.

The question is why?

You had a team that repeatedly went to the Super Bowl. You constantly went with veterans instead. You had Brady. You brought in Brandon Lloyd, Wes Welker, Brandon LaFell, traded for Brandin Cooks, Antonio Brown, Mohamed Sanu, brought in Amendola, Hogan, you had Julian Edelman, Gronk, Hernandez for a time, brought in Martellus Bennett.

And the whole time you were throwing it underneath to Kevin Faulk, Shane Vereen and James White.

Clearly, by all these examples, we know why they didn't stock up on draft picks at these positions. They were in the middle of a Super Bowl run. I'd also make the case that several of those offenses were all time top NFL offenses, in particular the 2012 team. They were great on offense until 2018. It was the defense that needed help throughout this period.

You should draft to get your team where it needs to be, not to stock up on Pro Bowlers.

 

[Love The Drake]

I causes me physical pain to watch St. Brown play. I’ll never understand how he lasted until the 4th round. I remember praying that the Pats would take him in the 3rd. Probably would have been a better pick than Perkins.

We’re you the one banging the drums for him in the draft forums,
I’ll be honest you and a few of my friends here in Philly were very high on him,
I didn’t get intrigued til he fell past the second round during the draft.
I missed that one.

 

[Love The Drake]

I understand why being under Mayo might be an excellent career move for Steve, but there's too much bad blood between the Krafts and Belichick; it will fall on the son when he fails. And the son will give a source inside Foxboro.

These are two among many reasons why this is a very bad idea.

Agree I’d start all fresh with new offensive Minds, I’d retain Covington and go fresh from
There. Any chance snatching Flores or Vrabel for FC?

 

[upstater1]

Wickersham did not report Kraft told him no. Wickersham wrote that Robert wanted to see what Mac could do with O'Brien and expressed his desire to keep him, but did not stop Belichick from actually trading him if he wanted to.

We don't know the dynamic here.

QB is the face of the team, the biggest investment any team could make.

What would be the fallout of Belichick making this decision with a future asset when he knows Kraft already has him out the door (some personnel decisions stripped from him, coaches moving in, a successor lined up in Mayo?)

If I were Belichick, and I were looking back on this as to where I am now and after everything that has happened, I would be kicking myself for not putting my foot down and refusing ALL of Kraft's demands much earlier. The parting of the ways should have happened immediately in 2020.

 

[Rob0729]

We don't know the dynamic here.

QB is the face of the team, the biggest investment any team could make.

What would be the fallout of Belichick making this decision with a future asset when he knows Kraft already has him out the door (some personnel decisions stripped from him, coaches moving in, a successor lined up in Mayo?)

If I were Belichick, and I were looking back on this as to where I am now and after everything that has happened, I would be kicking myself for not putting my foot down and refusing ALL of Kraft's demands. The parting of the ways should have happened immediately in 2020.

It really seems that if he didn't trade Mac in fear of what Kraft could do, he did everything to make sure Mac would fail to make it so Kraft would fire him. He didn't draft a offensive player until the fourth round. I won't bring up JuJu since his camp claims he didn't want him and he wanted to keep Meyers (even though the mistake fell on him, I will give him the benefit that his preference was Meyers). But he thought Riley Reif was his solution at RT. He had a chance to get Hopkins on the cheap and passed.

If I felt my job was based on the success or failure of my QB because the owner loves the guy and already feels that Belichick tanked his second season, I would do everything possible to make sure the QB succeeded. Or at least if he failed, the owner couldn't put any blame on me for not surrounding the guy with talent. It almost like Belichick wanted Jones to fail so that he could rub it in Kraft's face.

 

[TommyD4207]

It really seems that if he didn't trade Mac in fear of what Kraft could do, he did everything to make sure Mac would fail to make it so Kraft would fire him. He didn't draft a offensive player until the fourth round. I won't bring up JuJu since his camp claims he didn't want him and he wanted to keep Meyers (even though the mistake fell on him, I will give him the benefit that his preference was Meyers). But he thought Riley Reif was his solution at RT. He had a chance to get Hopkins on the cheap and passed.

If I felt my job was based on the success or failure of my QB because the owner loves the guy and already feels that Belichick tanked his second season, I would do everything possible to make sure the QB succeeded. Or at least if he failed, the owner couldn't put any blame on me for not surrounding the guy with talent. It almost like Belichick wanted Jones to fail so that he could rub it in Kraft's face.

I really hope you're just kidding or trolling - you don't think any NFL head coach, never mind Bill Belichick, would tank an entire season to make a point to the owner, do you? Really?

Now - Mac Jones being the ONLY QB on the roster coming out of camp? *That* was a message to the owner. And everyone, really.

 

[upstater1]

It really seems that if he didn't trade Mac in fear of what Kraft could do, he did everything to make sure Mac would fail to make it so Kraft would fire him. He didn't draft a offensive player until the fourth round. I won't bring up JuJu since his camp claims he didn't want him and he wanted to keep Meyers (even though the mistake fell on him, I will give him the benefit that his preference was Meyers). But he thought Riley Reif was his solution at RT. He had a chance to get Hopkins on the cheap and passed.

If I felt my job was based on the success or failure of my QB because the owner loves the guy and already feels that Belichick tanked his second season, I would do everything possible to make sure the QB succeeded. Or at least if he failed, the owner couldn't put any blame on me for not surrounding the guy with talent. It almost like Belichick wanted Jones to fail so that he could rub it in Kraft's face.

Are we really going to discuss the draft all over again?

I'm not going to do it. I reject what you wrote because I've rejected it 100x already and I think you pretty much know how I feel about drafting Keion and Gonzalez.

Beyond that, explain to me why the Patriots and Belichick went 10-7 with Mac in his first year, tried to bring him along slowly, give him every support, bring in 4 high priced pass catching free agents and trading for one, drafted an OL with their 1st rounder, a WR with their 2nd, had McDaniels baby him all throughout, and we're supposed to believe that Belichick was vindictive against Mac Jones?

After all that?

Hunter Henry, Algholor, Cole Strange, Jonnu Smith, Kendrick Bourne, Tyquan Thornton, Devante Parker, Gesicki. Treated him with kid gloves in his first year and made him look 100x better than he is. They went to the playoffs for heaven's sake.

Is this really an example of vindictively torpedoing a player you didn't want?

And, since killing your own QB is a SURE way to lose games, we're also claiming here that Belichick purposely lost games?

 

[Rob0729]

I really hope you're just kidding or trolling - you don't think any NFL head coach, never mind Bill Belichick, would tank an entire season to make a point to the owner, do you? Really?

Now - Mac Jones being the ONLY QB on the roster coming out of camp? *That* was a message to the owner. And everyone, really.

I don't think he tanked the season on purpose. But he might not have wanted to give Mac weapons in part to prove to Kraft that Mac wasn't an NLF starter and so that they could move on from him.

But I think Belichick undermined Zappe this year too. His whole approach to the QB position this year was utterly stupid.

 

[TommyD4207]

I don't think he tanked the season on purpose. But he might not have wanted to give Mac weapons in part to prove to Kraft that Mac wasn't an NLF starter and so that they could move on from him.

But I think Belichick undermined Zappe this year too. His whole approach to the QB position this year was utterly stupid.

Now I know you're trolling. Carry on, then.

 

[Rob0729]

Are we really going to discuss the draft all over again?

I'm not going to do it. I reject what you wrote because I've rejected it 100x already and I think you pretty much know how I feel about drafting Keion and Gonzalez.

Beyond that, explain to me why the Patriots and Belichick went 10-7 with Mac in his first year, tried to bring him along slowly, give him every support, bring in 4 high priced pass catching free agents and trading for one, drafted an OL with their 1st rounder, a WR with their 2nd, had McDaniels baby him all throughout, and we're supposed to believe that Belichick was vindictive against Mac Jones?

After all that?

Hunter Henry, Algholor, Cole Strange, Jonnu Smith, Kendrick Bourne, Tyquan Thornton, Devante Parker, Gesicki. Treated him with kid gloves in his first year and made him look 100x better than he is. They went to the playoffs for heaven's sake.

Is this really an example of vindictively torpedoing a player you didn't want?

And, since killing your own QB is a SURE way to lose games, we're also claiming here that Belichick purposely lost games?

I don't have a problem with the Gonzalez pick. He was a potential All Pro who should have been drafted in the top 10. White, on the other hand, was a luxury pick because most people said that he would be more a project his rookie season and he pretty much was until at least later in the season where he started to show flashes.

And any other team if you said the GM tried to surround the QB with talent and used examples of Agholor, Jonnu Smith (who started great this year and quickly tailed off), Parker, and Geiski, people would laugh at you.

And I am not talking about his first year. I am talking his second two especially this year where it looked by the end that Belichick was just trying to embarrass a QB who clearly had lost all his confidence.

 

[Rob0729]

Now I know you're trolling. Carry on, then.

He did. Did he do it on purpose? Probably not, but cutting him and then jerking around with a dozen other QBs on and off the roster undermined Zappe.

 

[upstater1]

I don't have a problem with the Gonzalez pick. He was a potential All Pro who should have been drafted in the top 10. White, on the other hand, was a luxury pick because most people said that he would be more a project his rookie season and he pretty much was until at least later in the season where he started to show flashes.

And any other team if you said the GM tried to surround the QB with talent and used examples of Agholor, Jonnu Smith (who started great this year and quickly tailed off), Parker, and Geiski, people would laugh at you.

And I am not talking about his first year. I am talking his second two especially this year where it looked by the end that Belichick was just trying to embarrass a QB who clearly had lost all his confidence.

So, he wasn't trying to torpedo him in year one.

Just year two.

As for the people that were brought in, that's who as available. Jonnu Smith tailed off because he got injured. He didn't tail off otherwise. We still expended a great deal of resources and even two draft picks on O.

You still didn't address the greater point: if he was trying to torpedo him, why go through the trouble of expending all these picks, bringing in these receivers, drafting Tyquan and picking Cole Strange. Clearly Belichick wanted to win.

I really think yours is the sort of post that will get replayed in the media so much that the Krafts, being basically controlled by perceptions, will lead to Mac getting another shot.

 

[Rob0729]

So, he wasn't trying to torpedo him in year one.

Just year two.

As for the people that were brought in, that's who as available. Jonnu Smith tailed off because he got injured. He didn't tail off otherwise. We still expended a great deal of resources and even two draft picks on O.

You still didn't address the greater point: if he was trying to torpedo him, why go through the trouble of expending all these picks, bringing in these receivers, drafting Tyquan and picking Cole Strange. Clearly Belichick wanted to win.

I really think yours is the sort of post that will get replayed in the media so much that the Krafts, being basically controlled by perceptions, will lead to Mac getting another shot.

Smith hasn't been on the injury report for most of the season. In fact, I cannot find one report where he was listed as injured.

Jonnu Smith, Miami Dolphins, TE - Fantasy Football News, Stats

Get the latest fantasy news, stats, and injury updates for Miami Dolphins TE Jonnu Smith from CBS Sports

www.cbssports.com

Jonnu Smith Injury History & Updates

Jonnu Smith Injury History & Updates. Our injury data is so comprehensive, even NFL teams have paid for it. Our algorithm even predicts injuries

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Again, I didn't say he was trying to torpedo him on purpose. And Strange and Thornton were drafted in 2022. Not this year.

 

[upstater1]

Smith hasn't been on the injury report for most of the season. In fact, I cannot find one report where he was listed as injured.

Jonnu Smith, Miami Dolphins, TE - Fantasy Football News, Stats

Get the latest fantasy news, stats, and injury updates for Miami Dolphins TE Jonnu Smith from CBS Sports

www.cbssports.com

Jonnu Smith Injury History & Updates

Jonnu Smith Injury History & Updates. Our injury data is so comprehensive, even NFL teams have paid for it. Our algorithm even predicts injuries

www.draftsharks.com

Again, I didn't say he was trying to torpedo him on purpose. And Strange and Thornton were drafted in 2022. Not this year.

Hmmm, here's one: Jonnu Smith Dealing With Ankle Injury - NFL News | Fantasy Football

2022 is the year that Mac's play went south. That's the year people are blaming Belichick for ruining him.

This year he was toast from the start.

I posted about his horrible play after week 2 against the Phins (although I was impressed by him the following week against the Jets).

Then the stuff he was doing against the Phins became a regularity.

 

[upstater1]

By the way, the fall guys are already in place: Wolf and Groh. Good luck!!!

 

[TommyD4207]

By the way, the fall guys are already in place: Wolf and Groh. Good luck!!!

How many seasons are we going to waste until the axe finally falls on those two? If we're lucky, it's just one.

Not that I think they do a bad job necessarily, but you nailed their only function in the organization now - be the fall guys for poor performance.

 

[upstater1]

How many seasons are we going to waste until the axe finally falls on those two? If we're lucky, it's just one.

Not that I think they do a bad job necessarily, but you nailed their only function in the organization now - be the fall guys for poor performance.

It won't be their fault. I have nothing against either of them (except, well, the analytics that tell you someone is better than someone else when they're not).

I mainly referring to the meddling and how that puts everyone's job on edge. A short-term approach is encouraged. Because you want to stay in the job immediately, even if that means you're taking shortcuts.