Patriots GM Search

[Ross12]

I still have my doubts on Groh and Wolf because they were the ones stacking the draft boards the past few years and we still got disasters like Harry, Strange, Thornton, etc. Hell one of the OL coaches, I believe Klemm, got so irate at the GARBAGE he had to work with on OL this year that he reportedly verbally shouted at Groh for doing a bad job. I guess the question will be how much of the fault was BB overruling the scouts/Groh/Wolf and how much of it was the scouts/Groh/Wolf stacking the draft boards with crap players.

I'm guessing there is plenty of blame to spread around. Which is why I would have preferred a house cleaning entirely - new GM/Personnel guy/scouting department etc. I'm guessing Kraft is scared to rock the boat too much after ejecting BB but maybe it's a problem that he is not making even more changes. We shall see.

Well you can’t put Harry on them as that is one of the core complaints they have - according to them, they advocated for AJ Brown or Deebo but Bill went rogue and picked Harry who wasn’t on their board.

In regards to guys like Strange and Thornton - they put the guys on the board, yes, but it’s also a question of how they graded them. If Groh or Wolf were running the draft, would Strange have been a 1st rounder or a 2nd or 3rd rounder? Would Thornton have been a 2nd rounder or later? Hard to say.

With the Klemm stuff - I am kind of inclined to think that’s ********, but even if it’s true, I don’t know what Groh was supposed to do about it. The issue was tackle, Bill didn’t sign any good tackles in free agency. Not up to Groh. In the draft, Bill went defense repeatedly and didn’t take a lineman of any kind until the middle rounds, and mostly ignored tackle. Closest he picked was Sow who was a maybe as a tackle conversion - didn’t work out, he had to be a guard anyway. Groh couldn’t control that Bill didn’t draft any tackles. So not sure what Klemm would have wanted Groh to do. For all we know, Groh had lots of tackles rated highly and Bill ignored all of them in favor of Gonzo and Keion White - who obviously were solid picks but leaves them with an issue at tackle, still.

 

[upstater1]

With the Klemm stuff - I am kind of inclined to think that’s ********, but even if it’s true, I don’t know what Groh was supposed to do about it. The issue was tackle, Bill didn’t sign any good tackles in free agency. Not up to Groh. In the draft, Bill went defense repeatedly and didn’t take a lineman of any kind until the middle rounds, and mostly ignored tackle. Closest he picked was Sow who was a maybe as a tackle conversion - didn’t work out, he had to be a guard anyway. Groh couldn’t control that Bill didn’t draft any tackles. So not sure what Klemm would have wanted Groh to do. For all we know, Groh had lots of tackles rated highly and Bill ignored all of them in favor of Gonzo and Keion White - who obviously were solid picks but leaves them with an issue at tackle, still.

What if you just can't make good LTs materialize out of thin air?

We heard they gave negative grades to McGlnchey, Taylor and Brown. You can't give $80m+ to players who you believe are wildly overrated. That was a good decision by both Belichick and the front office. That decision doesn't give you an LT though.

So you're back to wondering if you should have taken Gonzalez over Broderick Jones or Keion over Mauch. I watched Jones against the Bills tonight, and he was actually very good. He was playing right tackle though, and it's true the Bills have no one who can rush on that side anymore. He looked good. Mauch, to my surprise, played guard tonight. They drafted him as a tackle who was taking over at RT so Wirfs could move to LT.

I just don't think there were answers here. Couple that with the previous year when the Patriots wanted a LT in the first, and it's a very hard thing to get.

Don't look now: we're in a similar predicament this year. We're looking to grab a QB and a WR with our premium picks. Are there going to be any good LTs left when we come around to that?

 

[Ross12]

What if you just can't make good LTs materialize out of thin air?

We heard they gave negative grades to McGlnchey, Taylor and Brown. You can't give $80m+ to players who you believe are wildly overrated. That was a good decision by both Belichick and the front office. That decision doesn't give you an LT though.

So you're back to wondering if you should have taken Gonzalez over Broderick Jones or Keion over Mauch. I watched Jones against the Bills tonight, and he was actually very good. He was playing right tackle though, and it's true the Bills have no one who can rush on that side anymore. He looked good. Mauch, to my surprise, played guard tonight. They drafted him as a tackle who was taking over at RT so Wirfs could move to LT.

I just don't think there were answers here. Couple that with the previous year when the Patriots wanted a LT in the first, and it's a very hard thing to get.

Don't look now: we're in a similar predicament this year. We're looking to grab a QB and a WR with our premium picks. Are there going to be any good LTs left when we come around to that?

Yeah, it’s a real problem - and a lot of teams in the league have the same problem.

Despite how badly the team needs upgrades at QB and WR, some part of me feels like leveraging the premium pick in a trade down just a couple spots, if possible, makes sense… You can get your premier LT there and pick up an extra 2nd rounder, and then use your two 2nd rounders on a QB and a receiver. They won’t be as good obviously but you got your cornerstone tackle.

An alternative is to use your 1st on your premium QB and then move up into the middle 1st using your high 2nd and other picks to get your LT.

 

[TommyD4207]

I'm not really following - the thought here is that they're keeping two guys and not hiring a GM so that they can be bad on purpose in the future and then blame these guys for the team being bad at that time? Why would they do that?

Keeping them IN CASE they're bad - so they can have someone else to blame next year. Because you know, Patricia was last year, Belichick was this year..

 

[mgteich]

.

An alternative is to use your 1st on your premium QB and then move up into the middle 1st using your high 2nd and other picks to get your LT.

this

 

[40yrpatsfan]

I still have my doubts on Groh and Wolf because they were the ones stacking the draft boards the past few years and we still got disasters like Harry, Strange, Thornton, etc. Hell one of the OL coaches, I believe Klemm, got so irate at the GARBAGE he had to work with on OL this year that he reportedly verbally shouted at Groh for doing a bad job. I guess the question will be how much of the fault was BB overruling the scouts/Groh/Wolf and how much of it was the scouts/Groh/Wolf stacking the draft boards with crap players.

I'm guessing there is plenty of blame to spread around. Which is why I would have preferred a house cleaning entirely - new GM/Personnel guy/scouting department etc. I'm guessing Kraft is scared to rock the boat too much after ejecting BB but maybe it's a problem that he is not making even more changes. We shall see.

With the Harry pick that happened 5 years ago now, it's been established that BB went rogue, after which he changed his ways to become more collaborative, which ironically led to the Mac Jones choice who BB wasn't that high on but he caved in order to be collaborative.

Strange was a good pick at 29, he's a very talented guard, one of the highest RAS scores ever for an OL. And the Patriots coaching staff got to work with him directly for a week leading up to the Senior Bowl, after which they graded him as R1. I wish people would stop complaining about Strange. He's had some injuries but that's the only bad thing to say about him.

Thornton has been a major disappointment for 2 years, but he's not in Harry's class as far as disasters, meaning that there's still reason to believe he'll break out in year 3. Too early still to call him a bust, and it's tough to condemn any young player with all the offensive chaos on this team the past 2 years. He'll come in stronger next season and with a lot to prove, so let's see. He's 23.

 

[archstanton543]

With the Harry pick that happened 5 years ago now, it's been established that BB went rogue, after which he changed his ways to become more collaborative, which ironically led to the Mac Jones choice who BB wasn't that high on but he caved in order to be collaborative.

Strange was a good pick at 29, he's a very talented guard, one of the highest RAS scores ever for an OL. And the Patriots coaching staff got to work with him directly for a week leading up to the Senior Bowl, after which they graded him as R1. I wish people would stop complaining about Strange. He's had some injuries but that's the only bad thing to say about him.

Thornton has been a major disappointment for 2 years, but he's not in Harry's class as far as disasters, meaning that there's still reason to believe he'll break out in year 3. Too early still to call him a bust, and it's tough to condemn any young player with all the offensive chaos on this team the past 2 years. He'll come in stronger next season and with a lot to prove, so let's see. He's 23.

I'll stop complaining about Strange when he can stay healthy and shows some first round talent on the field. There's a reason the Rams guys were laughing at the pick.

Thornton hasn't shown anything indicating he's primed for a breakout year next year. The only WR that has shown anything close to that is Pop.

 

[captain stone]

"Cryptonium" is a clueless ****ing idiot... or Al Groh's kid himself.