Patriots CUTS

[ctpatsfan77]

"I could envision a scenario where he is initially cut and not on the 53-man roster, but he comes back at another point down the line. Maybe multiple times, sort of like they did one year with Ross Ventrone.

With all due respect to Bruschi, I believe Belichick has too much respect for Tebow to give him the Ventrone yo-yo treatment.

Yeah that's true, not that it would ever happen but logistically speaking we aren't required to have the roster be at the full 53 correct?

As noted below, the Pats cannot have a roster below 53 for more than 24 hours IF they have any third-year players on the practice squad.

OTOH, the CBA requires that teams have to have at least 51 players.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

If they cut him they no longer have to guarantee his 2013 salary correct? In which case I would cut him no matter if they want him or not, there is no reason to guarantee his contract, I see no chance of someone else scooping him up.

Tebow's contract contains no guaranteed money at all. Since Tebow would not be an unrestricted FA if released, he is not eligible for termination pay (the "salary guarantee").

Next year, however, I believe he would be eligible for the salary guarantee (since it would be his fifth year in the league).

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

On the contrary. Anyone who thinks BB would risk losing an important player that he wants on the roster to save a nominal pretty much useless amount of money has not been paying attention.
The risk is losing the player THAT YOU WANT ON YOUR TEAM. The gain is saving a few game checks if you don't want him any more.
Its a football decision and the football decision is its stupid to expose the guy to waivers to potentially save an amount of money thaat is miniscule in the big picture.



No one is saying it is out of kindness. It is just a terrible decision to expose a player you want to waivers for nothing or next to nothing.

Thats not the other side. The other side is you may lose a player who is one of your best 53.

To quote myself , ""Bottom line: if he doesn't think you're worth the money, worth the guarantee, worth ????....you're gone"".
So to answer your question, no he wouldn't likely risk losing an impact player. But an impact player by definition is likely worth the money (unless conspicuously overpaid - but that would not likely lead to a departure from the subject of this discussion). For this discussion we are talking about what, maybe a minor impact player? For a player like that, BB just may gamble on losing that player if the potential reward is a +1. In this instance it is to marginal the betterment of the cap and some marginal flexibility of the roster. Most might think "it's too small to matter". To BB, there is no advantage to small, it all matters.
Look, if you think BB doesn't operate like that, that's your call. He isn't you or my best friend so we have no idea what is going on inside his head. But as for what I have seen of BB in his tenure as HC of the NEP, he is absolutely that kind of cold, calculating leader. And that's because he is in the business of winning Super Bowls, he isn't here to be liked. And he has succeeded on both fronts (although I like him).

 

[moosekill]

Ok player x, you have a $2million dollar contract. I think you are only worth $500k. I would love to have you on the Patriots for $500k this season, but that means I am going to cut you now, and I can't resign you until after the first game. If you want to play for the Patriots, and have a shot at that superbowl you really want to win, then why don't you hang around and wait until after that first game and then come on back and sign that new contract.

Boy that sounds so incredibly crazy, I am sure it never happens.

 

[Miguel]

A couple of cap tidbits about Termination pay

Termination Pay. Any type of Termination Pay liability will be included
in Team Salary at the time the player is released, except to the extent the Team is relieved of any such liability.

If on the roster on Week 1 and then released during the season - 100% of Paragraph 5 salary

If on the roster after Week and then released during - no more than 25% of Paragraph 5 salary

Let's use Niko Koutouvides as an hypothetical example.

He is a 9 year vet that would have a salary of $840,000. If he is on the roster Week 1 and later released, he would cost the Pats $840,000 on the cap.

If he is not on the roster Week 1 but he is signed during the season and he is later released his cost would be his weekly salary plus 25% of $840,000.

 

[Miguel]

My point is that if you want the player on your team, the risk far outweighs the reward. Once you bring him back you will be paying him any way.

The amount of termination pay is different.

 

[Miguel]

To quote myself , ""Bottom line: if he doesn't think you're worth the money, worth the guarantee, worth ????....you're gone"".
So to answer your question, no he wouldn't likely risk losing an impact player. But an impact player by definition is likely worth the money (unless conspicuously overpaid - but that would not likely lead to a departure from the subject of this discussion). For this discussion we are talking about what, maybe a minor impact player? For a player like that, BB just may gamble on losing that player if the potential reward is a +1. In this instance it is to marginal the betterment of the cap and some marginal flexibility of the roster. Most might think "it's too small to matter". To BB, there is no advantage to small, it all matters.
Look, if you think BB doesn't operate like that, that's your call. He isn't you or my best friend so we have no idea what is going on inside his head. But as for what I have seen of BB in his tenure as HC of the NEP, he is absolutely that kind of cold, calculating leader. And that's because he is in the business of winning Super Bowls, he isn't here to be liked. And he has succeeded on both fronts (although I like him).

Exactly. We are not talking players 1-40 on the roster. We are talking about players 41 through 53.

 

[Miguel]

Here's a couple of more links about termination pay.

Larry Johnson, Will Allen cut by Dolphins | Miami Dolphins In Depth

Chiefs Bring Back TE Anthony Becht; Waive 2009 Seventh Round Pick - Arrowhead Pride

I think that the "most butchered concept" description is incorrect.

 

[Peachhead]

With all due respect to Bruschi, I believe Belichick has too much respect for Tebow to give him the Ventrone yo-yo treatment.

Why? Because Tebow is a nice guy? I would imagine Ventrone was a nice guy too. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of nice guys in the cuts, both in this round and in the previous round. *****holes rarely even make it this far with the Pats. Why would Tebow merit more respect than many other guys? That's how you lose a locker room. Treating some guys (especially bottom of the roster guys) differently than other guys. Maybe that would fly on the Jets, but BB knows better than that.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Branch did not make the team. If he did make the team and the move was solely to not guarantee his salary he would have been back the day after game 1.
Cutting him had the same impact as the ficticious move you suggest, but it clearly was not for that purpose.

Actually it was you who created the fictitious move, except you wrongly thought both salaries would be guaranteed, apparently believing all salaries are guaranteed.

I never once said it was solely to not guarantee his salary. I said in the first sentence of my first response (post 190) that it may have been more about roster flexibility than actual dollars. If his salary is guaranteed they are less likely to make a move since they are paying his full salary plus the cost of his replacement, why would you do that for a marginal player?? If you owned a business would you guarantee the salary of the person who, in all likelihood, would be the first person you let go?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

A couple of cap tidbits about Termination pay

Termination Pay. Any type of Termination Pay liability will be included
in Team Salary at the time the player is released, except to the extent the Team is relieved of any such liability.

If on the roster on Week 1 and then released during the season - 100% of Paragraph 5 salary

If on the roster after Week and then released during - no more than 25% of Paragraph 5 salary

Let's use Niko Koutouvides as an hypothetical example.

He is a 9 year vet that would have a salary of $840,000. If he is on the roster Week 1 and later released, he would cost the Pats $840,000 on the cap.

If he is not on the roster Week 1 but he is signed during the season and he is later released his cost would be his weekly salary plus 25% of $840,000.

Example #1 of why I read this fun & informative site.
Just when I think I know something, I find out that I don't.
Thanks!

 

[BritPat]

Cunningham's gone by the sounds of it.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Ok player x, you have a $2million dollar contract. I think you are only worth $500k. I would love to have you on the Patriots for $500k this season, but that means I am going to cut you now, and I can't resign you until after the first game. If you want to play for the Patriots, and have a shot at that superbowl you really want to win, then why don't you hang around and wait until after that first game and then come on back and sign that new contract.

Boy that sounds so incredibly crazy, I am sure it never happens.

That is a lot more ethical than what Seneca Wallace is claiming the 49ers did by signing him ONLY to force Colt McCoy into renegotiating a lower salary....

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/31/seneca-wallace-49ers-used-me-to-get-colt-mccoy-to-take-a-pay-cut/
(disclaimer- above is a PFT link for those Florio-averse.)

 

[Uncle Rico]

Cunningham's gone by the sounds of it.

Source:

Mike Loyko ?@NEPD_Loyko 1m
Jermaine Cunningham gone. Picked 1 spot ahead of his higher rated Florida teammate Carlos Dunlap. Hated the pick at the time

Edit: bah, I messed up quoting Loyko while linking to PFT< original "source." But, you know, whatever.

 

[BritPat]

I think it was actually PFT that reported it first. That's why I'm erring on the side of caution

 

[patsinthesnow]

Well, the busts are off the team. Is Tavon next?

 

[ausbacker]

Cunningham being cut isn't particularly surprising. BB pulls the trigger when he misses. Nobody can accuse him of being soft in that regard.

 

[Deus Irae]

Benard and Cunningham both being gone would seem to bode well for Bequette, at least for the initial "final" cuts.

 

[Uncle Rico]

I think it was actually PFT that reported it first. That's why I'm erring on the side of caution

Field Yates ?@FieldYates 4m
Patriots down to 64, as @MikeReiss confirms DE Jermaine Cunningham has been released, as @ProFootballTalk reported.

 

[belichick010405]

Does anyone think that the Pats are going to roll with Joe Vellano as the 4th defensive tackle on the initial roster?