Player Signing Patriots Claim 4 on Waivers

[jimnance]

To thine own self be true.

Moderate lamentation is the right of the dead, excessive grief the enemy to the living

 

[Ring 6]

Because the OL is trash and he more than likely would not do well here.

So when we don’t sign players there is always an excuse. We are the only team in the history of the NFL that no one wants to play for.

 

[dliverey44]

So when we don’t sign players there is always an excuse. We are the only team in the history of the NFL that no one wants to play for.

Not sure, you asked a question and I gave you a possible reason.

 

[palialka]

You said this. I assume defending the move is endorsing it.


I know you mentioned DL although they are really OLBs, but that doesn’t explain what it has to do with not addressing the DT position.

You don’t know that 31 teams passed on him. But again, what was there to lose? Why think if all the reasons to not try to improve the team rather than just try to improve it.

I’m sure you are thrilled with the roster we built this year with our 100,000,000 cap room. I wonder is that because you think we are loaded and on our way to dynasty or if you are ok with sucking but not ok with criticizing.

I can see we are getting nowhere with this conversation. You have an axe to grind and you have every right to do that in this forum.

I happen to agree with the philosophy the team is taking now with building through the draft and developing young talent internally. The organization doesn’t want to swap role players and JAGS in FA just for the sake of doing so. That’s not improving the team, that’s just rolling sh!t down the line.

My hope is that we show incremental improvement this year, win a few more games than last year, show potential FAs that we are re-establishing a winning culture so they want to be a part of that and continue to build a winning team/contender for years to come. I think that’s something all of us can get behind.

 

[Ring 6]

I can see we are getting nowhere with this conversation. You have an axe to grind and you have every right to do that in this forum.

I happen to agree with the philosophy the team is taking now with building through the draft and developing young talent internally. The organization doesn’t want to swap role players and JAGS in FA just for the sake of doing so. That’s not improving the team, that’s just rolling sh!t down the line.

My hope is that we show incremental improvement this year, win a few more games than last year, show potential FAs that we are re-establishing a winning culture so they want to be a part of that and continue to build a winning team/contender for years to come. I think that’s something all of us can get behind.

So free agents are important except they aren’t important now because we didn’t sign them, and once we decide to sign them then we can worry about winning?
How many years are you giving away with this plan?
And if all the free agents today are role players and JAGs his do free agents suddenly become good valuable guys at some point in the future when you want us to sign them?

How can you get behind something that we have taken zero steps to do and shown no interest in doing?

 

[Ring 6]

I can see we are getting nowhere with this conversation. You have an axe to grind and you have every right to do that in this forum.

I happen to agree with the philosophy the team is taking now with building through the draft and developing young talent internally. The organization doesn’t want to swap role players and JAGS in FA just for the sake of doing so. That’s not improving the team, that’s just rolling sh!t down the line.

My hope is that we show incremental improvement this year, win a few more games than last year, show potential FAs that we are re-establishing a winning culture so they want to be a part of that and continue to build a winning team/contender for years to come. I think that’s something all of us can get behind.

If they win 2 or 3 games this year will you still agree with the philosophy?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I can see we are getting nowhere with this conversation. You have an axe to grind and you have every right to do that in this forum.

I happen to agree with the philosophy the team is taking now with building through the draft and developing young talent internally. The organization doesn’t want to swap role players and JAGS in FA just for the sake of doing so. That’s not improving the team, that’s just rolling sh!t down the line.

My hope is that we show incremental improvement this year, win a few more games than last year, show potential FAs that we are re-establishing a winning culture so they want to be a part of that and continue to build a winning team/contender for years to come. I think that’s something all of us can get behind.

I understand your point but the slow rebuild rarely works in the NFL. It sounds nice, and posters "think it makes sense" but the JETS have been doing exactly what you support since 1970. The PatsFans board routinely ridicules the JETS and now some posters want to rebuild the same way the JETS have tried over and over. That slow rebuild through the draft approach rarely works unless you draft amazingly well. The approach should be a combination of FA and the draft.

 

[palialka]

Well, to be fair and I rarely agree with him, the lack of attention to the oline is dumbfounding.

I’m not sure what else could have been done TBH. The OL was addressed in the draft along with other glaring needs (QB, WR).

What stud OT was available in FA? The answer is ZERO. Those guys are never made available. We could have chased T. Smith (signed by the Jets) but he’s a walking season ending injury waiting to happen. He’s missed an average of 7-8 games a season for the last 4 years…no thanks.

I’m not saying that the Pats have had a perfect off season to date; but the incessant b!tching and moaning by some posters here who always have an axe to grind gets to be too much sometimes. But I also realize that’s what you get on fan forums.

The bottom line is that it’s gong to take a couple of years to fully address the roster and get this ship righted.

 

[palialka]

I understand your point but the slow rebuild rarely works in the NFL. It sounds nice, and posters "think it makes sense" but the JETS have been doing exactly what you support since 1970. The PatsFans board routinely ridicules the JETS and now some posters want to rebuild the same way the JETS have tried over and over. That slow rebuild through the draft approach rarely works unless you draft amazingly well. The approach should be a combination of FA and the draft.

I agree with you. The big problem we have in FA right now is that difference making FAs don’t want to come here because the team has been on a 4 year decline. I mean we did offer Ridley 22-25M/yr and Ayuk 28-32M/yr. They said “no” because we suck at the moment.

The core of our team should be built through the draft. FA should: 1) compliment the draft because the draft can’t possibly fill every need and 2) add a game changer that puts the team over the top. (Unfortunately the Pats aren’t in a position to attract that kind of talent currently because of what I said above)

 

[Steve102]

The difference between Zappe, jones and brissett isn’t moving the needle in wins and loses.

Brissett is not the future and you know it. Anything else is just you trying to win debate points.

Osborne is a jag.

Better than JJSS

Rookie are rookie.

Probably not.

Elliott/ Stevenson on 3rd is better than Gibson on 3rd. Gibson appears to be RB2 though and hasty the 3rd down back. Minimal in either direction here.

Disagree. Gibson was best available 3rd down back. Elliot is name brand and nothing else at this point.

Think what you want about gesicki but we are consorting him to hooper.

Gesicki sucks. Hooper is marginally better. The best TE in FA signed here.

Why would there have to be a savior? We had 50,000,000 that could fill 8-10 starting positions and/or innumerable depth players.
We have holes throughout the roster, we have role players as our starters and practice squad guys as backups.

Look at all the players who changed teams in free agency and trades. I counted at least 70 (not including aging players) who would have been better than guys we have. It’s not that they missed a player it’s that they sat out free agency while many players who could have improved this team went past

I hate to sound like Deus, but who do you suggest? You throw this 50m number around like it's the great salve to fix all ills. What was available year 1 of this regime's rebuild? Names.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I agree with you. The big problem we have in FA right now is that difference making FAs don’t want to come here because the team has been on a 4 year decline. I mean we did offer Ridley 22-25M/yr and Ayuk 28-32M/yr. They said “no” because we suck at the moment.

The core of our team should be built through the draft. FA should: 1) compliment the draft because the draft can’t possibly fill every need and 2) add a game changer that puts the team over the top. (Unfortunately the Pats aren’t in a position to attract that kind of talent currently because of what I said above)

You are not taking a whole team view. The defense has to be augmented continuously as well as the offense or the defense will slump. You are only talking about the offense - a one sided approach that never works. FA and the draft have to address the offense more than the defense, but still both sides of the ball have to be addressed. The Pats lost Barmore, Guy, and Judon and did nearly nothing on D, in FA or the draft, except sign our own guys.

 

[palialka]

If they win 2 or 3 games this year will you still agree with the philosophy?

Of course my opinion could change as the season progresses; I don’t need to wait until the end of the season. I want our team to win and become a contender again as soon as possible.

Let me ask you this…If we improve this season and become a playoff team in the next couple of years, will you admit that Wolf’s team building philosophy was correct and yours wasn’t?

 

[Triumph]

There's a reason that the Tackles try to offset some from the line of scrimmage - it's a net benefit for them. Expect more sacks.

The OC and QB can counter with certain plays.

If Maye can hit Thornton on some long bombs, Thorton is going to draw double coverage real fast. That in turn will open up other areas of the field for the offense.

 

[palialka]

You are not taking a whole team view. The defense has to be augmented continuously as well as the offense or the defense will slump. You are only talking about the offense - a one sided approach that never works. FA and the draft have to address the offense more than the defense, but still both sides of the ball have to be addressed. The Pats lost Barmore, Guy, and Judon and did nearly nothing on D, in FA or the draft, except sign our own guys.

Of course the team needs to be continuously improved. That’s obvious. The offense was primarily addressed this off season because that’s what has been so woeful the last few years.

The Barmore situation was bad luck. You can’t replace a guy like that in the middle of TC. Guy was part time player last season who’s definitely replaceable with the players we already have IMO. Replacing Judon remains to be seen, but the coaching staff seems to have confidence in the guys we currently have.

Look, there’s going to be more balance with team construction as this team moves forward. You can’t fix all the team’s problems in one off season. Instant gratification rarely gives long term results. People need to have a little patience.

I think we agree in principle. I want the team to improve as much as you do. I just want it to be built correctly so that it’s sustainable.

 

[palialka]

So free agents are important except they aren’t important now because we didn’t sign them, and once we decide to sign them then we can worry about winning?
How many years are you giving away with this plan?
And if all the free agents today are role players and JAGs his do free agents suddenly become good valuable guys at some point in the future when you want us to sign them?

How can you get behind something that we have taken zero steps to do and shown no interest in doing?

I have to give you credit. You’re a bulldog at beating your drum and grinding that axe while twisting people’s words to fit your agenda. It never ends with you lol! I admire that in a certain way.

To your point:

1) Free Agency is always important…so is winning
2) I always say newly hired GMs/HCs need 3 years for a fair assessment . If you’re not going to give them that, then what’s the point of hiring them in the first place
3) You sign FAs because you believe they will make a valuable contribution to the success of your team…whether they are big signings or role players
4) I believe all fans should give the benefit of the doubt to a new GM/HC. We shouldn’t get the pitchforks out and burn them at the stake before the season even starts. That’s petty and self-serving.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Of course the team needs to be continuously improved. That’s obvious. The offense was primarily addressed this off season because that’s what has been so woeful the last few years.

The Barmore situation was bad luck. You can’t replace a guy like that in the middle of TC. Guy was part time player last season who’s definitely replaceable with the players we already have IMO. Replacing Judon remains to be seen, but the coaching staff seems to have confidence in the guys we currently have.

Look, there’s going to be more balance with team construction as this team moves forward. You can’t fix all the team’s problems in one off season. Instant gratification rarely gives long term results. People need to have a little patience.

I think we agree in principle. I want the team to improve as much as you do. I just want it to be built correctly so that it’s sustainable.

If the team is to be built in a sustainable fashion, that means both sides of the ball should be continuously addressed. The defense was ignored this year. That instills no confidence there is a long term plan in place.

 

[mgteich]

If the team is to be built in a sustainable fashion, that means both sides of the ball should be continuously addressed. The defense was ignored this year. That instills no confidence there is a long term plan in place.

Yes, we should have signed a couple of upgrades on Defense.

We lost Guy and thought Watts was the answer moving forward. Now, we lost Barmore, and the unit really needs help.

We probably expected Judon to leave next year. So, this year was the time to bring someone in to be in top form in 2025 and 2026. Takitaki wasn't much of a step forward.

 

[palialka]

If the team is to be built in a sustainable fashion, that means both sides of the ball should be continuously addressed. The defense was ignored this year. That instills no confidence there is a long term plan in place.

They brought in DBs in the FA and the draft

They brought in LB help via FA

They brought in DL via FA

They claimed a DT and LB on waivers today

They haven’t ignored the D

Let’s revisit this topic at the season halfway point; then we’ll really know if the D was ignored or not.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Yes, we should have signed a couple of upgrades on Defense.

We lost Guy and thought Watts was the answer moving forward. Now, we lost Barmore, and the unit really needs help.

We probably expected Judon to leave next year. So, this year was the time to bring someone in to be in top form in 2025 and 2026. Takitaki wasn't much of a step forward.

Agreed. And there were a lot of good defensive players in FA.

 

[mgteich]

I understand your point but the slow rebuild rarely works in the NFL. It sounds nice, and posters "think it makes sense" but the JETS have been doing exactly what you support since 1970. The PatsFans board routinely ridicules the JETS and now some posters want to rebuild the same way the JETS have tried over and over. That slow rebuild through the draft approach rarely works unless you draft amazingly well. The approach should be a combination of FA and the draft.

I also don't believe in a slow rebuild. Almost all of have been discussing being a playoff contendor in 2025 and in the 4 years of Maye's first contract.

It does NOT follow that we should have spent another $40M on player services for 2024.

Consider that we have $120M of cap money over the average to spend. Should we spend $30M a year including this year. Or should we spend an average of $40M starting next year?
========
I do agree that we should have spent a bit more, adding a front-seven player or two. And, sure, even a backup LT to replace/compete with Lowe and Anderson. However, I do prefer to push the money forward and spend it on years when we are competing for the playoffs.