Patriots / Brady Discussion

[Chris Stevenson]

The offense was historic. It put up so many points so quickly it forced other teams to go in passing mode. That and the TOs masked a lot of problems. If you look at the 3rd down D, yards allowed and the red zone D it was the worst in the NFL. If you don't want to look it up then you simply want to overlook it as a significant deficiency.



All they has was Branch at WR. AH, WW and Gronk were not outside receivers. WR2 was Brandon Tate. That should tell you something. Brady was at his height (back then)



Chase points? Panic?



We are not watching the same games. They are actually throwing the ball downfield more. West Coast is a lot of slants and intermediates. Due to injuries they aren't doing that as much as years prior.

It's not a 100% West Coast, dude. It's still the Ray Perkins/Erhardt thing, but they're clearly using more of the traditional West Coast stuff this year. Brady being under Center a lot more is the dead giveaway.

Ball is out fast as much as ever, they're just over-calling deep routes to Cooks (or potential Dorsett looks), which is tied to the Hogan injury.

I am just saying, the RB group is what I've been looking for years. It's so deep and versatile, Gillislee can't even stay active.

I believe with better health, the red zone offense will improve starting Saturday night.

 

[Ring 6]

How is being accurate and fair when the offense is not where it needs to be, some kind of a taboo thing to talk about here?

You do realize the media hates BB more than Brady, that sometimes the analysis goes off the rails on a national level, right?

More than half of your posts are critical of the greatest QB of all time. No Brady is not perfect, just the best ever, so perhaps of your gig is to criticize the team you can be objective rather than trash brady.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Correct. Well, to Cooks. Cooks is the Jerry Rice of this offense, and no, I am not comparing Cooks to Rice.

Cooks is more like John Taylor.

Gronk= Rice.

The West Coast included timely deep balls from Montana. IMO,

A vastly underrated part of Montana's game In the mid part of his career he was VERY good at the deep ball.

McDaniels is calling way too many deep plays, which has been tied to the amount of hits Brady has taken.

I think that is true. Although his hit #s are close to the same as last year so who knows.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

I think Welker should have caught it, but you have to at least admit Brady throwing off his back foot, caused that ball to go high. He was wide open, dude.

You and I could have hit that on a line and Welker may have even scored. I didn't want him to, as bleeding clock there likely would have won the game.

This is not meant to bash or re-hash, but at least be fair and accurate about what happened.

Brady didn't throw off his back foot. He stepped into the throw. The rest of your analysis seems to rely on that being true, which it isn't.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It's not a 100% West Coast, dude. It's still the Ray Perkins/Erhardt thing, but they're clearly using more of the traditional West Coast stuff this year. Brady being under Center a lot more is the dead giveaway.

Ball is out fast as much as ever, they're just over-calling deep routes to Cooks (or potential Dorsett looks), which is tied to the Hogan injury.

I am just saying, the RB group is what I've been looking for years. It's so deep and versatile, Gillislee can't even stay active.

I believe with better health, the red zone offense will improve starting Saturday night.

You said West Coast.

No- Brady is holding onto the ball more this year.

Perk/Erh also has elements of snap under center.

 

[RobertWeathers]

We are nothing like a WCO.

Of course not

 

[Chris Stevenson]

If you actually think the height of the pass was the reason it wasn't caught, you're going to be completely useless analyzing anything.

So, you're saying Brady threw an accurate ball to a wide open receiver up the seam?

Hmm.

What is your take on the Safety he took with Welker wide open to the strong side, where he just chucked it to no one downfield? It was a bad playcall and an even worse decision.

Not sure how you can make any other assessment.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

You said West Coast.

No- Brady is holding onto the ball more this year.

Perk/Erh also has elements of snap under center.

Correct. Part of NE's playbook pulls some from West Coast concepts. It's a pretty deep playbook and has grown through the years.

Brady is holding onto the ball more this year within the over-called deep routes to Cooks, yes.

Teams are singling Gronk in man, mauling him off camera, and bracketing Cooks.

It's up to McDaniels and Brady to know that and attack in other ways.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

We are nothing like a WCO.

Yes, we are. Brady under Center, ball out, timing routes vital, and heavy use RBs in the psasing game.

All West Coast concepts.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

You said West Coast.

No- Brady is holding onto the ball more this year.

Perk/Erh also has elements of snap under center.

Correct. Hybrid of the Perkins/Erhardt and old school Paul Brown/Walsh West Coast stuff.

Yes.

I am just saying Brady is more so under Center looking like Montana than he has in recent years.

Heck, even the roll outs on deep balls is Montana. Do you watch the same games I do?

 

[Ring 6]

It's not a 100% West Coast, dude. It's still the Ray Perkins/Erhardt thing, but they're clearly using more of the traditional West Coast stuff this year. Brady being under Center a lot more is the dead giveaway.

Fact 2016 brady passes in shot gun 323 under center 109
2017 shot gun 428 under center 153
“A lot more is a dead giveaway”? 74.7% vs 73.7%.

Ball is out fast as much as ever, they're just over-calling deep routes to Cooks (or potential Dorsett looks), which is tied to the Hogan injury.

The deep routes are part of play design and have always been there. They are getting open more often and therefore thrown more.

I am just saying, the RB group is what I've been looking for years. It's so deep and versatile, Gillislee can't even stay active.

I believe with better health, the red zone offense will improve starting Saturday night.

Of course better health = better football.

 

[JMC00]

I think Welker should have caught it, but you have to at least admit Brady throwing off his back foot, caused that ball to go high. He was wide open, dude.

You and I could have hit that on a line and Welker may have even scored. I didn't want him to, as bleeding clock there likely would have won the game.

lol what?







lol it's not high when it hits the WR square in the hands and don't give me sh*t about Welker having to go up a little bit, he's a f**king receiver that's what they do.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, we are. Brady under Center, ball out, timing routes vital, and heavy use RBs in the psasing game.

All West Coast concepts.

Brady is not under the center often. You are wrong.
Brady has always gotten the ball out and the patriots are not close to being WCO-like in timing routes. Not even in the ballpark.

You are just way off on this.

 

[Ring 6]

Correct. Hybrid of the Perkins/Erhardt and old school Paul Brown/Walsh West Coast stuff.

Yes.

I am just saying Brady is more so under Center looking like Montana than he has in recent years.

Heck, even the roll outs on deep balls is Montana. Do you watch the same games I do?

Clearly we don’t watch the same games. You think the patriots offense has brady rolling out like Montana? Good googlymoogly.

 

[RobertWeathers]

lol what?







lol it's not high when it hits the WR square in the hands and don't give me sh*t about Welker having to go up a little bit, he's a f**king receiver that's what they do.

So far we've been reliving the 2010 loss to the Jets and this drop.

We all need to hang out with TB12 and Tony Robbins and attend a positive thinking seminar.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

lol what?







lol it's not high when it hits the WR square in the hands and don't give me sh*t about Welker having to go up a little bit, he's a f**king receiver that's what they do.

Like I said, he should have had it. But, the throw was high. Showing us stills from the trajectory on the way down after he jumped, isn't going to cut it. The ball should have been right at his hip, up the seam, not where it ended up with Brady rushing and throwing off his back foot.

Both could have been better there, and quite frankly, our highest paid offensive players like Brady, Mankins and Welker, all under-performed in postseasons together from that era.

Heck, Mankins was ejected from his postseason game in January of 2006. Can't always plays against mediocre or bad defenses in postseasons.

 

[maineman209]

I think Chao is pretty credible, at least with the limited info that he has.

Hogan has been a limited practice participant for quite sometime, so he should be good for the upcoming game with the extra week of rest. If he’s still on the border, I’d hope they’re still conservative (which goes against conventional thinking due to the circumstances), because I think we need him for the remaining games. Since it’s the postseason, we’re likely to get anything he has, even if it’s only 2/3 or 3/4. Hopefully, he’s as close to 100% as possible.

Good to have the supporting opinion from Chao. The fact that Hogan received a Practice Player of the Week award for the win over the Jetes is perhaps even more encouraging - shows that he's contributing, not simply practicing.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Clearly we don’t watch the same games. You think the patriots offense has brady rolling out like Montana? Good googlymoogly.

Absolutely.

I've seen it numerous times this year. He's doing it to bide time on the deep routes. Just because you don't understand what the West Coast entails, doesn't mean the Pats aren't running some West Coast concepts/plays.

It's why his hits appear up this year and people run around blaming the Super Bowl winning OL.

I don't think constantly trying trying to stretch the field with Cooks bracketed over and over, is good playcalling. The Red Zone offense's downturn this year is tied to this, too.

Hogan returning, even if rusty, should help this problem.

 

[Deus Irae]

So, you're saying Brady threw an accurate ball to a wide open receiver up the seam?

I'm saying that height of the pass wasn't the core issue. That was the shoulder the ball was thrown to. Whether that was on Brady, or Welker, is something they can tells us one day. From there, Welker made his try, and still should have caught the ball, but didn't.

You can ask anyone who was on this board at the time, and you can ask anyone who's been around long enough to see me posting about Welker, and you'll find that I was as big a Welker supporter and defender as there was around here. But, on that play, Welker should have had the ball.

Not sure how you can make any other assessment.

I watched the play. It's obvious. Shoulder, not height.

 

[Pats1989]

Are you actually serious?

They had laid an egg for the second straight year. It was six years without getting to the SB. Hindsight says it was a crazy thought. But thats hindsight.