OT: top 10 athletes in recent history

[letekro]

I know all too well that he is not popular here, but I could make a case for Lebron. Size, straight line speed, power, explosion, hand-eye coordination. It's all there. He is the greatest athlete of his era (and arguably all time--Wilt and Shaq are the only legitimate contenders) in the professional sports league with the most ridiculous athletes overall. I think we can extrapolate from the success of Antonio Gates, Jimmy Graham and other vastly inferior power forwards-gone-tight end that James likely would have been the greatest tight end in the history of the game if he had pursued it. I can't imagine that he would have been anything other than the greatest soccer goalie of all time, if he had pursued that. I would think he could've been a decent hurdler/high/long jumper if he had focused on that.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Imagine if Phelps had to do what he does with super athletic, 300 pound black guys trying to tackle him.

Or falling on him.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Well, how about John Kirby = GOAT

 

[borg]

Borg buddy, this is one of the most incredibly ignorant posts I've ever seen anywhere, not just on Patsfans. You want to talk "agility components"? Try pole vaulting ... How about throwing the discus, throwing the javelin, high jumping, long jumping, doing the rotary shot put and running the 110-meter high hurdles? ALL are incredibly difficult tests of agility, dexterity and timing. ALL are events in the decathlon. Add to those the speed and endurance runs (100/400/1500) and you have THE world standard for pure athleticism not even your favorite soccer player can begin to approximate.[/QUOTE

Seriously?
Agility...the ability to change direction quickly.

Spinning is supreme agility?
Running straight for 27 steps and then jumping is agility?
Throwing is now a measure of agility?

Get Roger on the horn and tell him his 3 cone test is all wrong

Regarding your "the decathlon is the world standard for pure athleticism" pronouncement....that ship sailed decades ago. I know we are sold this "line" every four years in August....and every parent thinks their baby is the cutest...and of course every US professional team that wins a title is "World Champion"..... but the reality is we see amazing displays of athleticism in all shape or form that have nothing to do with track and field....yet ONLY on the track field can the the greatest athlete be crowned? .....that's absurd.
In my eyes ...decathlete = "Jack of 1o trades, master of none"...some world standard

 

[borg]

Pretty much this. The best pure athletes are usually not that great at their sport. Look at the NBA currently. Athletic freaks like Aaron Gordon can't even start on their teams but they can do jumps/dunks that nearly defy physics.

Ronaldo ticks both these boxes.......like it or not.

 

[letekro]

So how do you Feel about baseball Players who can hit for power and average at an elite level, field at an elite level, throw at an elite level, and run at an elite level? (Mays, DiMaggio)

I feel that they are among the very greatest players and athletes in the history of their sport. Particularly, Mays. Within the confines of one sport, it is possible to be elite at many different skills because you are only being compared against the other people in your sport, all of whom are practicing the same things (although some guys--I'm looking at you, David Ortiz--practice hitting to the exclusion of the other skills).

 

[fightingirish595]

I feel that they are among the very greatest players and athletes in the history of their sport. Particularly, Mays. Within the confines of one sport, it is possible to be elite at many different skills because you are only being compared against the other people in your sport, all of whom are practicing the same things (although some guys--I'm looking at you, David Ortiz--practice hitting to the exclusion of the other skills).

Ortiz wouldnt even be near my list of top 100 athletes

 

[Tunescribe]

Seriously?
Agility...the ability to change direction quickly.

Spinning is supreme agility?
Running straight for 27 steps and then jumping is agility?
Throwing is now a measure of agility?

Get Roger on the horn and tell him his 3 cone test is all wrong

Regarding your "the decathlon is the world standard for pure athleticism" pronouncement....that ship sailed decades ago. I know we are sold this "line" every four years in August....and every parent thinks their baby is the cutest...and of course every US professional team that wins a title is "World Champion"..... but the reality is we see amazing displays of athleticism in all shape or form that have nothing to do with track and field....yet ONLY on the track field can the the greatest athlete be crowned? .....that's absurd.
In my eyes ...decathlete = "Jack of 1o trades, master of none"...some world standard

Good lord, man, have you ever set foot on an athletic field?! Have you ever even WATCHED the decathlon or track and field events? Doubling down on intentional ignorance is unbecoming, here or anywhere else. That's what's absurd. If you can't see the sheer agility and dexterity required of pole vaulting, throwing the discus or javelin or high jumping, no amount of explaining will do it. Long-jumping requires timing and mid-air changes in body position you apparently can't imagine beyond "27 steps and then jumping." The speed/balance/momentum/torque and overall body control required of throwing a discus or javelin as a measure of agility AND strength -- you're damn right it is. You're questioning it demonstrates cluelessness.

I never said the greatest athlete can ONLY be crowned on the track field, I suggested that for what defines athleticism -- strength, power, speed, agility/dexterity and endurance -- it represents a ready-made objective standard. You can have your kick-ball binky.

 

[borg]

" The speed/balance/momentum/torque and overall body control required of .........

Thank you. Your criteria perfectly explains why gymnasts are superior "athletes". The only difference is gymnasts maintain body control for far longer, in far more demanding positions, requiring ridiculous total body strength......and it rarely looks like a flailing motion you see in T and F.

OT....I had a fraternity brother who was a decathlete and was conference champion every season. Someone asked him why he became a decathlete. Response...."because I couldn't win any other events."
Sonic Boommmmm

 

[Tunescribe]

Thank you. Your criteria perfectly explains why gymnasts are superior "athletes". The only difference is gymnasts maintain body control for far longer, in far more demanding positions, requiring ridiculous total body strength......and it rarely looks like a flailing motion you see in T and F.

OT....I had a fraternity brother who was a decathlete and was conference champion every season. Someone asked him why he became a decathlete. Response...."because I couldn't win any other events."
Sonic Boommmmm

You're goofy.

 

[Joker]

I think Caitlyn jilted Borg in the not so distant past...

 

[borg]

You're goofy.

I try

But lets keep going.

Ashton Eaton is great...obviously and is Olympic legit in a couple of events. His best score in a decathlon is 9,513.....world record....tremendous. Using the same scoring method to score points for the world records of these 10 events gets a score of 12,560...no surprise...much higher. But using this decathlon scale, Eaton needs to improve over 30% to be considered the elite of the elite in each event. Just playing with numbers.
At the 2012 Olympics, Eaton won 3 of 10 events. So win 3 out 10 and get labeled best athlete in the world?

Then you look at 2 other sports....swimming and gymnastics....both disciplines that award for individual performance... with gymnastics awarding a best all around medal based on aggregate scores of their 6 events....similar to a decathlon. Truly elite gymnasts are the best in the world at multiple events . Looking at the Japanese great Uchimura, he won 3 individual gold plus all around gold at last year's worlds. He did not need to improve 30% to be considered elite
In swimming...the closest a swimmer can come to "best swimmer" besides racking up medals in single stroke events is to win the Individual Medley events (4 strokes one race) which earns the winner "most complete swimmer" because of multiple talents....Phelps owns these events 200Im and 400IM. Using Phelps as the obvious example, world record holder in two disciplines, fly and free, at multiple distances. Medalist in world meets in backstroke as well ...and pulled away from the IM's best breast stroker this year, Lochte.....like gymnastics, the best at individual events also wins all around events. Again...no 30% bump necessary to lift these guys to elite.
No doubt ...apples to oranges...but in my mind, players like Phelps and Uchimura are elite and complete athletes...best individually in the world..and best overall. Not the case in decathlon...Jack of all trades, master of none....so Ashton is the best "jack"

 

[borg]

I think Caitlyn jilted Borg in the not so distant past...

No Caitlyn solidified my sentiments.....he/she's (not that there's anything wrong with that ... Seinfeld 1993) can win decathlons then look great in a low cut mini at night.

 

[Tunescribe]

I try

But lets keep going.

Ashton Eaton is great...obviously and is Olympic legit in a couple of events. His best score in a decathlon is 9,513.....world record....tremendous. Using the same scoring method to score points for the world records of these 10 events gets a score of 12,560...no surprise...much higher. But using this decathlon scale, Eaton needs to improve over 30% to be considered the elite of the elite in each event. Just playing with numbers.
At the 2012 Olympics, Eaton won 3 of 10 events. So win 3 out 10 and get labeled best athlete in the world?

Then you look at 2 other sports....swimming and gymnastics....both disciplines that award for individual performance... with gymnastics awarding a best all around medal based on aggregate scores of their 6 events....similar to a decathlon. Truly elite gymnasts are the best in the world at multiple events . Looking at the Japanese great Uchimura, he won 3 individual gold plus all around gold at last year's worlds. He did not need to improve 30% to be considered elite
In swimming...the closest a swimmer can come to "best swimmer" besides racking up medals in single stroke events is to win the Individual Medley events (4 strokes one race) which earns the winner "most complete swimmer" because of multiple talents....Phelps owns these events 200Im and 400IM. Using Phelps as the obvious example, world record holder in two disciplines, fly and free, at multiple distances. Medalist in world meets in backstroke as well ...and pulled away from the IM's best breast stroker this year, Lochte.....like gymnastics, the best at individual events also wins all around events. Again...no 30% bump necessary to lift these guys to elite.
No doubt ...apples to oranges...but in my mind, players like Phelps and Uchimura are elite and complete athletes...best individually in the world..and best overall. Not the case in decathlon...Jack of all trades, master of none....so Ashton is the best "jack"

I personally see this discussion as coming down to who/what represents the best overall expression of athleticism, not "jack-of-all-trades" vs. being the master of one. As I noted earlier, the benchmarks of athleticism are strength, power, speed, endurance, agility and dexterity. Objectively quantifying these attributes is difficult in most team sports as well as in individual sports where a specific skill/attribute/ability is emphasized. If you want to talk all-around "complete" athlete, though, I suggest the decathlon as an objective standard of measurement. It doesn't matter how many events you "win" in that sport, but how well you measure up to purely objective standards of performance.

To me, the likes of Ashton Eaton and other high-scoring decathletes epitomize "full-spectrum" athleticism. Everything else is just conjecture, guesswork, binkydom. It would be fun to see the likes of Michael Jordan, Jerry Rice or Larry Bird paced through a decathlon in their prime, although I'll bet a Michael Phelps -- as masterful as he is in the pool -- would fail miserably. Then you have champions like Tom Brady who also would relatively suck by any objective standard but would be off the scale in terms of sheer heart/willpower.

It's all a matter of what standards you want to go by and how you measure them. Like identifying the world's most beautiful woman, there probably is a variety of "right" answers.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I think Caitlyn jilted Borg in the not so distant past...

What is this, One Game to Play? As the Football Spins? General Football Team? Salary Cap Vixens?

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

No Caitlyn solidified my sentiments.....he/she's (not that there's anything wrong with that ... Seinfeld 1993) can win decathlons then look great in a low cut mini at night.

1992...the last time the Patriots played a season dressed as the Patriots...

 

[1960Pats]

bird was in his peak, MJ was entering his prime. also almost always they didn't play each other directly. bird is too tall for MJ and MJ is too fast for bird.

larry bird is my hero and i believe bird had 3rd greatest peak value of all time. but MJ beats him in every meaning category. MJ was bird in an insane athletic body. both are ruthless competitor who were ready to kill you.

I doubt that either of them could get a shot off anywhere near the basket against Bill Russell.

I know that he might have played before the time that many here witnessed, but Bill Russell was the most dominant player in NBA history. Nobody is even close.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

OK, after this, Bolt has my vote.

 

[borg]

I personally see this discussion as coming down to who/what represents the best overall expression of athleticism, not "jack-of-all-trades" vs. being the master of one. As I noted earlier, the benchmarks of athleticism are strength, power, speed, endurance, agility and dexterity. Objectively quantifying these attributes is difficult in most team sports as well as in individual sports where a specific skill/attribute/ability is emphasized. If you want to talk all-around "complete" athlete, though, I suggest the decathlon as an objective standard of measurement. It doesn't matter how many events you "win" in that sport, but how well you measure up to purely objective standards of performance.

To me, the likes of Ashton Eaton and other high-scoring decathletes epitomize "full-spectrum" athleticism. Everything else is just conjecture, guesswork, binkydom. It would be fun to see the likes of Michael Jordan, Jerry Rice or Larry Bird paced through a decathlon in their prime, although I'll bet a Michael Phelps -- as masterful as he is in the pool -- would fail miserably. Then you have champions like Tom Brady who also would relatively suck by any objective standard but would be off the scale in terms of sheer heart/willpower.

It's all a matter of what standards you want to go by and how you measure them. Like identifying the world's most beautiful woman, there probably is a variety of "right" answers.

Food for thought….or….kicking a dead horse

Saw this article yesterday that reports Bolt threw the javelin 56 meters in Olympic stadium the other night for ****s and giggles , 3 meters short of the gold medal "greatest athlete" who finished 19th in the javelin event….
Usain Bolt threw a javelin at the Olympics like no big deal

This got me to thinking how Bolt would matchup verses Eaton..if Bolt switched occupations.

I have Bolt winning….100, 400, and 110 hurdles with ease.
I have Bolt winning javelin, discuss, shot put because his leverage creating wing span/strength combination is far superior to Eaton….just give him time to practice
I'm even giving Bolt the long jump despite Eaton's prowess in this event. Bolt's speed/length/ athleticism is superior to Carl Lewis' IMHO.
High jump……I'll call this a draw.
Pole Vault….Eaton…not even close
I'll give Eaton 1500 though I think Bolt could eventually nudge him out after years of endurance work….but why bother…the competition would already be over

 

[Tunescribe]

Food for thought….or….kicking a dead horse

Saw this article yesterday that reports Bolt threw the javelin 56 meters in Olympic stadium the other night for ****s and giggles , 3 meters short of the gold medal "greatest athlete" who finished 19th in the javelin event….
Usain Bolt threw a javelin at the Olympics like no big deal

This got me to thinking how Bolt would matchup verses Eaton..if Bolt switched occupations.

I have Bolt winning….100, 400, and 110 hurdles with ease.
I have Bolt winning javelin, discuss, shot put because his leverage creating wing span/strength combination is far superior to Eaton….just give him time to practice
I'm even giving Bolt the long jump despite Eaton's prowess in this event. Bolt's speed/length/ athleticism is superior to Carl Lewis' IMHO.
High jump……I'll call this a draw.
Pole Vault….Eaton…not even close
I'll give Eaton 1500 though I think Bolt could eventually nudge him out after years of endurance work….but why bother…the competition would already be over

That's a lot of conjecture. Perhaps you should write Bolt and ask him to consider it.