OT: top 10 athletes in recent history

[Actual Pats Fan]

Physically gifted: MJ, Bo, Willie Mays

Best at their sport: Russell, Orr, Jim Brown, Rocket Rod Laver

Overemphasizing the sixties: Me? It doesn't feel like it. But it looks that way on paper.

Baseball: really hard, safe to choose Ruth

Golf: harder. I like Jack, but better than Ben Hogan? Bobby Jones? Hagen? Snead? What about Byron Nelson? Not to mention Tiger. This is too hard.

A lot of the people mentioned in this thread are deserving of recognition, thanks to all for their knowledge and insight.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Golf: harder. I like Jack, but better than Ben Hogan? Bobby Jones? Hagen? Snead? What about Byron Nelson? Not to mention Tiger. This is too hard.

I said Jack earlier because of his 18 majors but as someone who has followed around Tiger in a handful of events when he was in his prime he was sick. The crap he would pull in the practice rounds was beyond comprehension. I've never seen Jack play in person but I can imagine he was just as good banging around.

Everyone you mention is worthy. I might add Seve, Arnie and Watson to the list as well.

In terms of the best athlete, clearly Tiger had the best build. With that said I think he had some help with that and his body paid the price.

In terms of being a golfer- Jack. In terms of raw power....Tiger.

 

[Satchboogie3]

interesting. never even heard of those guys. i guess if you put it that way, there are probably many athletes in the world who probably can match phelps/bolts like dominance. hell, how about arm wrestling? john brzenk's 30+ years of dominance is well documented.

i get what you are saying on bolt. all he has is an insane speed. but the big problem with your argument is that 100m record is considered the holy grail of records because we are so much more fascinated by the 100m then any other race. and it means it's probably much harder to achieve because competition is so fierce. IMO the best player in the NFL is more gifted than the best player in the water polo because NFL has so much bigger talent pool. who's more athletic? lebron james or some guy who dominated ping pong? you get the idea.

i always struggle with this because there is no right or wrong answer. you can interpret 'who is the best athlete in the world' in so many ways.

i guess if i look at the both dominance and athleticism then my answer would be MJ. in 10 year period, MJ was basically twice better than the 2nd best player. he was just so far better than the competition especially when bird and magic started to fade. and on top of that MJ had that sick athleticism.

I definitely am not trying to knock Bolt, but I also totally disagree about competition. While mountain running and distance running isn't popular on TV, it can be extremely competitive, especially now lately with so much youth getting involved. The thing that makes the guys I mentioned, Scott Jurek and Kilian Jornet (and Yiannis Kouros HM) is that they absolutely dominated. 7 straight wins of one of the most celebrated 100 mile events while setting course records and fighting through injuries is stupid tough in fierce endurance events. Or in the case of Kilian, when literally every time he races, he sets course records. His first two Hard Rock 100s, he finished almost two hours ahead of the 2nd place finisher.

Plus I mean, he (Kilian) is setting records on the biggest mountains in the world. His next attempt will be the speed record of Everest in the fall...

And records that stand for ever: Yiannis Kouros has many gold medal, world records that have stood since the 80's and 90's, from 100km to 1000 mile distances, 12 hour to 6 day events.

And I love the trail/distance events for the mental challenges. Sure, an NFL player faces tough physical training, but running through serious pain, on a sprained ankle, after collapsing and vomiting, and continuing on for maybe 100 more miles without a break (or a cortizone shot)... is some test. Hell, a Hard Rock 100 runner was struck by lightening last year... and he still continued and finished 2nd or 3rd!

And competition aside, a stupid ridiculous record is a stupid ridiculous record, regardless of how many people attempt it. No qualms about Jordan, he definitely belongs on the list.

 

[bbobbo]

I'm going to knock off Bruce Lee and Bolt.

A lot of talk about Bolt, and mention of the fact that he's a specialist, it docks him a point. The two most dominant runners in history, IMO, are Scott Jurek and Kilian Jornet.

Jurek is a legend. You like continued dominance? Here's a breakdown of his ultra races:
-7 straight Western States 100 (mile trail run) - set course record, twice sprained his ankle, once during the race, and once a few days before... still won. (only ran these 7 times: winning all)

-Won the Badwater Ultra (135 miles from the Death Valley to Mt Whitney), setting a course record, and just weeks after having run a 100 miler...

-Set the US Record (2nd overall World) for all-surface distance in 24 hours (165.7 miles)

-Won 3 straight Spartathlon Ultras (153 miles), grabbing the two fastest times Yiannis Kouros (honorable mention, as he holds many distance records).

- More than 30 wins in major Ultra events

-Appalachian Trail speed record, going the harder direction (no other speed record has ever even been attempted North bound) while dealing with a knee injury and the worst rain month in record through VT.

Kilian Jornet is another ultra runner who also is an accomplished, record setting ski-mountaineer. Kilian is arguably the most dominant runner today. His most recent accomplishments include:

- 3 straight Hard Rock 100 wins (arguably the hardest of all ultra races), setting the course record in each direction the first two years, then posting the 3rd best time this past year, deciding to stick with another runner to finish together instead of attempting to set a 3rd straight course record.

- Over 14 wins, 3 championships, and 2 champion of the year titles at the Skyrunner World Series and Championship, including the Ultra Trail Mont-Blanc, Marathon Mont-Blanc, and Vertical K.
- Western States win
- NorthFace 100 win (course record)
- Mount Marathon Race win (course record)
- Ultra Pirineu win (course record)
- Many other wins in various trail race. A non-first place finish is extremely rare, and I don't think he has ever finished worse than 4th at any major race. Just about every random run he's done in the US has set records, highlighted by the Hard Rock races, but also including things like:
- 165 mile record time running around Lake Tahoe
- record ascent of the Mt. Sanitas Trail in CO

One thing that makes Kilian unique is the different running/mountaineering projects he is always active in. In addition to the normal races, he also has set records running/ski-mountaineering many of the worlds prominent and or difficult mountains. This includes:
- Mont-Blanc Traverse
and the combined Ascent/Descent for the following:
- Mt. McKinley
- Mont-Blanc
- Matterhorn
- Denali
- Aconcagua
- Kilimanjaro

An example of how crazy the guy is: He did a 23 hour run/climb up Grandes Jorasses (13,800 ft) then ran the Mont Blanc Vertical Kilometer the next day, finishing 7th.

If that isn't enough, he's also won a whole lot of ski mountaineering races, including 1st place finishes in Spanish, European, and World Championship events.

No one in the world moves faster over the most gnarly of terrain. Watching him run down super steep rock faces is unreal. My legs cramp just watching him run up super steep scrambles.

Usain Bolt may be the fastest sprinter on the planet, but Kilian is just as dominant, but a far more diverse athlete. Dominating in a very specialized field is one thing. Dominating in a wide variety of races in multiple sports is a whole different ballgame. I look it like this: the only race that Bolt could probably win against Kilian would be short and on the track. Any other distance, venue, or involving anything other than shoes and it's not a contest.

And as for mind-boggling quality, sure, running as fast as Bolt does is crazy, but trying to break records at different sports where the duration sometimes lasts 40+ hours ( or 46 days for Scott Jurek's AT record) is again, a whole different level of mind-boggling "how do that do that". The mental challenge of these crazy ultras is insane.

I do think it would be cool to see some of the Kenyan sprinters and marathoners compete in ultras and mountain runs, but I'm sure those eyeing the Olympics probably wouldn't ever risk going off trail. But that's just another credit to the mindset of ultra-runners. They'll run anything, anytime. They don't worry about potential injuries.

i think it's hard to include competitors in obscure sports like ultra-marathoning. i'm not doubting that jurek or jornet are athletic or dominant, but how many serious competitors are there really in that sport? i'm guessing the number is in the low hundreds.

at least when you're talking about sports like football, basketball, soccer, or track & field or swimming, the athletes at the top have been winnowed down from a really large population, so you almost definitely are getting the best of the best. usain bolt is almost certainly the fastest 100m sprinter on the planet.

on the other hand, there's not that much money to be earned in ultra-marathoning, so they probably aren't attracting the best athletes in the world to that sport. i just checked out the list of competitors for the 2016 western states 100. there were fewer than 400 competitors (men and women), and more than half of them were over the age of 40.

2016 Entrants List

of the competitors, only 280 finished:

2016 Results

if the purses in ultra-marathon races got really big and the kenyans and ethiopians decided to take up the sport seriously, i'm pretty sure they would dominate.

 

[Observer]

Usain Bolt.

 

[wolverinejoe80]

100m always pumps me up. i get nervous watching it. lol winning 3 olympic gold in a row in 100m is insane to me.

 

[Satchboogie3]

i think it's hard to include competitors in obscure sports like ultra-marathoning. i'm not doubting that jurek or jornet are athletic or dominant, but how many serious competitors are there really in that sport? i'm guessing the number is in the low hundreds.

at least when you're talking about sports like football, basketball, soccer, or track & field or swimming, the athletes at the top have been winnowed down from a really large population, so you almost definitely are getting the best of the best. usain bolt is almost certainly the fastest 100m sprinter on the planet.

on the other hand, there's not that much money to be earned in ultra-marathoning, so they probably aren't attracting the best athletes in the world to that sport. i just checked out the list of competitors for the 2016 western states 100. there were fewer than 400 competitors (men and women), and more than half of them were over the age of 40.

2016 Entrants List

of the competitors, only 280 finished:

2016 Results

if the purses in ultra-marathon races got really big and the kenyans and ethiopians decided to take up the sport seriously, i'm pretty sure they would dominate.

Do they let anyone run in the Olympics? You have qualifiers for all these races, and some (like Hard Rock) have a limit. To get entry into the lottery pool of Western States 100, you have to have finished or hit cutoff times for comparable ultras. Only those who have finished previously in the Western States 100 get to skip the lottery, but still need to qualify.

As for the field, there are many thousand ultra-runners and mountain runners, not hundreds. Hard Rock 100 had over 1600 qualifying runners enter the lottery for 150 spots. The best from all over the world. To qualify, you need to completed one of about 12 of the hardest 100+ mile ultras in the previous year. And of course you need to meet the qualifying standards to get into those, and into the qualifiers for the qualifiers... You get the point.

And Kilian isn't exactly some obscure name. He's been on the news a bunch, was recently the Nat. Geo. Adventurer of the Year, and is a house hold name for anyone who does any sort of running, skiing, mountaineering...

Check out some videos on Kilian Jornet. The guy is as athletic as it gets. He runs mountaineering routes on some of the most difficult mountains on the planet. RUNS, in shoes. It's insane. But that's just it, it isn't just about pure running on flat, it's about rock climbing, ice climbing, balance, skiing. One wrong move running down that stuff and good bye, your dead. Of course ultra courses aren't as technical as some of the mountains he himself tackles, but you still are climbing technical terrain up and down mountains.

And a Kenyan dominating ski-mountaineering? They'd have to actually start participating in cold weather sports first...

 

[wolverinejoe80]

i think it's hard to include competitors in obscure sports like ultra-marathoning. i'm not doubting that jurek or jornet are athletic or dominant, but how many serious competitors are there really in that sport? i'm guessing the number is in the low hundreds.

at least when you're talking about sports like football, basketball, soccer, or track & field or swimming, the athletes at the top have been winnowed down from a really large population, so you almost definitely are getting the best of the best. usain bolt is almost certainly the fastest 100m sprinter on the planet.

on the other hand, there's not that much money to be earned in ultra-marathoning, so they probably aren't attracting the best athletes in the world to that sport. i just checked out the list of competitors for the 2016 western states 100. there were fewer than 400 competitors (men and women), and more than half of them were over the age of 40.

2016 Entrants List

of the competitors, only 280 finished:

2016 Results

if the purses in ultra-marathon races got really big and the kenyans and ethiopians decided to take up the sport seriously, i'm pretty sure they would dominate.

i get your logic, don't get me wrong. but if we include the dominant athletes in all sports then this debate will simply never end. fedor in MMA had 10 year of absolute dominance. how about american ninja warriors? i'm not joking. these ninja warriors competitors are insane and it's probably one of the toughest and hardest event because it requires insane endurance and upperbody strength and focus.

 

[Satchboogie3]

i get your logic, don't get me wrong. but if we include the dominant athletes in all sports then this debate will simply never end. fedor in MMA had 10 year of absolute dominance. how about american ninja warriors? i'm not joking. these ninja warriors competitors are insane and it's probably one of the toughest and hardest event because it requires insane endurance and upperbody strength and focus.

So marathon running is fine, but anything that's a longer distance, or involves mountains, isn't mainstream enough thus doesn't count? You guys do realize ultra-distances and mountain running is very very popular in Europe and even in the states. There are trail races every weekend just here in NE, there are major event's all summer like the Loon Mountain Races and Mount Washington Auto Road Race, both of which Joe Gray dominated (One of the best US runners), plus US Mountain Running team qualifying races. There are World Mountain Running championship races in the US, in Europe, plus hosts of major events like the Skyrunner Wold Championships. I mean hell, there's a US Mountain Running team that competes world wide. It's only obscure to the kind of people who don't realize soccer exists. Soccer is far and away the most popular sport in the world, but ask 100 people in the US if they can name any soccer player and I doubt very many could come up with anything...

 

[borg]

Glad you mentioned a decathlete. The decathlon is the world standard for elite overall athleticism.

How can the world standard of athleticism not include an agility component?
Does being above average but never elite in 10 disciplines lead to overall elite status? If that's all it takes, then the gymnast who wins gold in individual events and also wins all around gold deserves much higher billing.

My choice is Ronaldo......his combination of speed, agility, endurance, strength, leaping ability, skill, mental toughness, winning ......the guy ticks every box. In my eyes, he's the best all around athlete I've ever watched.....and I'm a Messi fan.

 

[TBR]

How is Brady's skillset of being able to read a defense, throw a football and win more than anyone ever has not an 'athletic skillset' but Michael Phelps swimming is? I could argue swimming is a narrower skillset.
I've never understood the why we would make a distinction such as this.

Imagine if Phelps had to do what he does with super athletic, 300 pound black guys trying to tackle him.

 

[TheFlyingWedge]

Cool list but if this is about athletics in the context of competitive sports, as much as I love Bruce Lee, he doesn't belong on this list. He is unquestionably the most famous and influential martial artist of all time but not because of his athletic abilities, but rather his personality and acting fame. If we are looking at martial arts actors as athletes, Chuck Norris is actually more deserving as he was a legit kickboxing champion.

In the martial arts world I'd vote for Anderson Silva or Royce Gracie for their innovative (and unique in their time) styles and because they competed in world class matches where their skills were matched against real competition.

 

[Ring 6]

Imagine if Phelps had to do what he does with super athletic, 300 pound black guys trying to tackle him.

Or even super athletic 300 lb white ones.

 

[Tunescribe]

How can the world standard of athleticism not include an agility component?
Does being above average but never elite in 10 disciplines lead to overall elite status? If that's all it takes, then the gymnast who wins gold in individual events and also wins all around gold deserves much higher billing.

My choice is Ronaldo......his combination of speed, agility, endurance, strength, leaping ability, skill, mental toughness, winning ......the guy ticks every box. In my eyes, he's the best all around athlete I've ever watched.....and I'm a Messi fan.

Borg buddy, this is one of the most incredibly ignorant posts I've ever seen anywhere, not just on Patsfans. You want to talk "agility components"? Try pole vaulting ... How about throwing the discus, throwing the javelin, high jumping, long jumping, doing the rotary shot put and running the 110-meter high hurdles? ALL are incredibly difficult tests of agility, dexterity and timing. ALL are events in the decathlon. Add to those the speed and endurance runs (100/400/1500) and you have THE world standard for pure athleticism not even your favorite soccer player can begin to approximate.

 

[VrabelJr]

Nobody cares about wrestling anymore but Cael Sanderson was pretty damn ridiculous. Undefeated in folk style wrestling from his sophomore year of high school until retirement. 4x state champion, 4x NCAA champion, Olympic gold medal. He also has 5 NCAA championships in 6 seasons as a head coach.

 

[VrabelJr]

People are confusing best athlete and most dominant in his particular sport.

Pretty much this. The best pure athletes are usually not that great at their sport. Look at the NBA currently. Athletic freaks like Aaron Gordon can't even start on their teams but they can do jumps/dunks that nearly defy physics.

 

[fightingirish595]

You can argue Ted Williams is the greatest hitter ever. And they say the hardest thing to do in Sports is hit a baseball. However Ted didn't really feature the other tools. Willie Mays had it all though, But Teds career average was much higher and definitely would've hit over 600 homers. DiMaggio Was unreal defensively and could also hit for average and power. Missed 3 years of his prime and would have been close to 500 homers, definitely over 450. The only knock on Ruth is that he struck out a lot. But he could pitch too! So hard to choose between These guys. I think overall these guys are underrated in terms of greatest athletes ever. specifically DiMaggio and Mays

 

[signbabybrady]

Cool list but if this is about athletics in the context of competitive sports, as much as I love Bruce Lee, he doesn't belong on this list. He is unquestionably the most famous and influential martial artist of all time but not because of his athletic abilities, but rather his personality and acting fame. If we are looking at martial arts actors as athletes, Chuck Norris is actually more deserving as he was a legit kickboxing champion.

In the martial arts world I'd vote for Anderson Silva or Royce Gracie for their innovative (and unique in their time) styles and because they competed in world class matches where their skills were matched against real competition.

 

[letekro]

Glad you mentioned a decathlete. The decathlon is the world standard for elite overall athleticism.

You could also say that it is the world standard for not being elite at anything. Nobody can be elite at 10 different things, and if you try, you will not be elite at any one of them. I would guess that the event is not popular (for up and coming athletes and spectators) because people understand each event is being performed at a sub-world class level. That's why the truly greatest athletes focus on one or two things, IMO.

 

[fightingirish595]

You could also say that it is the world standard for not being elite at anything. Nobody can be elite at 10 different things, and if you try, you will not be elite at any one of them. I would guess that the event is not popular (for up and coming athletes and spectators) because people understand each event is being performed at a sub-world class level. That's why the truly greatest athletes focus on one or two things, IMO.

So how do you Feel about baseball Players who can hit for power and average at an elite level, field at an elite level, throw at an elite level, and run at an elite level? (Mays, DiMaggio)