OT: Official 2021 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

There is no doubt Manning and Brady were the top 2 QBs of their generation with Brady being miles ahead of Peyton but Peyton was better than Big Ben, Brees, Rivers, etc. But when taking football history into account, Peyton falls pretty far down the list IMO. Where do you have him ranked on your QB chart?

When I use the statistical formula, Manning usually ends up anywhere from 3-6. This has to do with how much one values longevity. Personally, I think longevity is already baked into the formula because it gives more opportunities to win championships and provides an advantage already. So around #5/6.

On my personal rankings, where I try to use 75% of what the numbers/accomplishments say and 25% opinion, it goes somewhat like this:

1
Brady

2-4 (Dominated an era)
Baugh
Graham
Montana

5-8 (Legit argument they were best of era, or close to flawless resume)
Luckman
Staubach
Starr
Unitas

9
Manning

Manning is down-ranked because he is the first QB who is not associated with “winner” or “champion” other than as a technicality. I may be biased, which is why I created the numerical formula to begin with.

 

[amfootball]

When I use the statistical formula, Manning usually ends up anywhere from 3-6. This has to do with how much one values longevity. Personally, I think longevity is already baked into the formula because it gives more opportunities to win championships and provides an advantage already. So around #5/6.

On my personal rankings, where I try to use 75% of what the numbers/accomplishments say and 25% opinion, it goes somewhat like this:

1
Brady

2-4 (Dominated an era)
Baugh
Graham
Montana

5-8 (Legit argument they were best of era, or close to flawless resume)
Luckman
Staubach
Starr
Unitas

9
Manning

Manning is down-ranked because he is the first QB who is not associated with “winner” or “champion” other than as a technicality. I may be biased, which is why I created the numerical formula to begin with.

Makes sense. I would probably have him right around there, maybe just outside the top 10. You kind of hit on it with the best of era. To legitimately be in the top echelon of great QBs IMO, you have to be the best of you generation. Manning clearly was not so you can't put him ahead of Baugh, Graham, Montana, etc because they were the best of their era even if you think Manning is a better QB than they are/were.

 

[sb1]

When I use the statistical formula, Manning usually ends up anywhere from 3-6. This has to do with how much one values longevity. Personally, I think longevity is already baked into the formula because it gives more opportunities to win championships and provides an advantage already. So around #5/6.

On my personal rankings, where I try to use 75% of what the numbers/accomplishments say and 25% opinion, it goes somewhat like this:

1
Brady

2-4 (Dominated an era)
Baugh
Graham
Montana

5-8 (Legit argument they were best of era, or close to flawless resume)
Luckman
Staubach
Starr
Unitas

9
Manning

Manning is down-ranked because he is the first QB who is not associated with “winner” or “champion” other than as a technicality. I may be biased, which is why I created the numerical formula to begin with.

I like it. I think this is the only way to do this ranking if you don't want to count wins and rings. There's arguments to be made for and against wins and rings measuring a QB but this makes a lot of sense.

Otherwise how does someone possibly compare say Manning and Starr to say for sure that Starr > Manning? It can't be done.

 

[VectorPrime]

Burt Breer said just now on Zo and Bertrand that Bill will like the Seth book while he very very carefully danced around how Brady will not be a fan of the messaging. Tells you all you need to know over who was sourcing this thing.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Burt Breer said just now on Zo and Bertrand that Bill will like the Seth book while he very very carefully danced around how Brady will not be a fan of the messaging. Tells you all you need to know over who was sourcing this thing.

Hopefully it’s a 15 minute news story for talking heads that’s quickly flushed for the latest gossip. I don’t even care what the book says, other than potentially creating another ridiculous cheating allegation.

 

[RicoG]

In other former Patriots news.
One of my fav player Amendola signs with the Texans.

Not much of a surprise that it is a team whose GM was formerly in the Patriots coaching staff.

What was surprising is that it took so long for him to get signed by a team. His stats the last couple years rivalled his best years in NE.

He's 213 in the all time receiving list. With about 600 yards, he'll move up the charts to 171 with 6600 yards.

 

[sb1]

Hopefully it’s a 15 minute news story for talking heads that’s quickly flushed for the latest gossip. I don’t even care what the book says, other than potentially creating another ridiculous cheating allegation.

My first thought was Brady getting blamed for Deflategate but then that would be Bill publicly admitting his team cheated in their Super Bowl run so I don't think that would help anyone's legacy.

Or Brady is getting blamed for his exit from the Patriots.

I think this talk is just a bunch of hype so people buy the book and nothing more than that.

 

[sb1]

Yeah. I think that's what the theme is going to be. That would be unfortunate as it really was a mutual divorce.

 

[sb1]

Rob Parker interviewed for this? lol

 

[Tony2046]

Brees >> Peyton

My mom >> Peyton

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

My mom >> Peyton

Your mom would have gotten past Billy Volek.

 

[Deus Irae]

My mom >> Peyton

Insert sexually charged reply here

 

[gobesmug]

When I use the statistical formula, Manning usually ends up anywhere from 3-6. This has to do with how much one values longevity. Personally, I think longevity is already baked into the formula because it gives more opportunities to win championships and provides an advantage already. So around #5/6.

On my personal rankings, where I try to use 75% of what the numbers/accomplishments say and 25% opinion, it goes somewhat like this:

1
Brady

2-4 (Dominated an era)
Baugh
Graham
Montana

5-8 (Legit argument they were best of era, or close to flawless resume)
Luckman
Staubach
Starr
Unitas

9
Manning

Manning is down-ranked because he is the first QB who is not associated with “winner” or “champion” other than as a technicality. I may be biased, which is why I created the numerical formula to begin with.

That's a very interesting way of breaking it down.

I especially like the dominated an era catagory. Thats probably the best metric.

I view an era as more than a generation or decade, but a specific way the game has been played. Like I would since 2004 until now has been a different era due to constant rule changes, replay review and such.

From that perspective I can see why I would choose those QBs over Manning.

 

[VectorPrime]

My first thought was Brady getting blamed for Deflategate but then that would be Bill publicly admitting his team cheated in their Super Bowl run so I don't think that would help anyone's legacy.

Or Brady is getting blamed for his exit from the Patriots.

I think this talk is just a bunch of hype so people buy the book and nothing more than that.

Breer says that everything people think about deflategate is essentially confirmed and I believe him because I think Bill is happy to throw Brady under the bus for it.

 

[sb1]

That's a very interesting way of breaking it down.

I especially like the dominated an era catagory. Thats probably the best metric.

I view an era as more than a generation or decade, but a specific way the game has been played. Like I would since 2004 until now has been a different era due to constant rule changes, replay review and such.

From that perspective I can see why I would choose those QBs over Manning.

Yeah - it's all about standing out compared to your peers who are also benefiting from the rules in the same era. I think that's the best way to make it apples to apples

 

[amfootball]

My first thought was Brady getting blamed for Deflategate but then that would be Bill publicly admitting his team cheated in their Super Bowl run so I don't think that would help anyone's legacy.

Or Brady is getting blamed for his exit from the Patriots.

I think this talk is just a bunch of hype so people buy the book and nothing more than that.

It is getting discussed so much now that when it finally comes out next month, there will be nothing new to read.

Btw, releasing it during the season is really dumb.

 

[lancerman]

When I use the statistical formula, Manning usually ends up anywhere from 3-6. This has to do with how much one values longevity. Personally, I think longevity is already baked into the formula because it gives more opportunities to win championships and provides an advantage already. So around #5/6.

On my personal rankings, where I try to use 75% of what the numbers/accomplishments say and 25% opinion, it goes somewhat like this:

1
Brady

2-4 (Dominated an era)
Baugh
Graham
Montana

5-8 (Legit argument they were best of era, or close to flawless resume)
Luckman
Staubach
Starr
Unitas

9
Manning

Manning is down-ranked because he is the first QB who is not associated with “winner” or “champion” other than as a technicality. I may be biased, which is why I created the numerical formula to begin with.

Manning has 5 MVP’s and that 04 was a top 3 all time QB season (behind Marino 84 but neck and neck with Tom’s 07). He also went to 4 SB’s and got two and was a prominent playoff fixture most of his career.

Playoffs have to matter, but if you went strictly by regular season he’s got a good case for number 1. Factoring in playoffs, Brady laps him and Montana edges him out, but I’m not sure anybody else at least in the SB era should be ahead of him.

Graham is the pre SB case you could make over him. I’m not not knocking Brady because he had to be the Frazier to Brady’s Ali.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

The last time brady played vs dallas even harry had a receiving touchdown..i think/hope dallas is gonna sent home with a package

 

[sb1]

Breer says that everything people think about deflategate is essentially confirmed and I believe him because I think Bill is happy to throw Brady under the bus for it.

Doubt that. Nobody who has done a review of the book has said anything about it and also I don't think Bill would publicly admit his team cheated to win a Super Bowl just to dump on his old QB. Bill is going to have enough difficulty getting in the HOF on the first ballot with Spygate on his resume, he doesn't need another reason for voters to question if he belongs there.

 

[VectorPrime]

Doubt that. Nobody who has done a review of the book has said anything about it and also I don't think Bill would publicly admit his team cheated to win a Super Bowl just to dump on his old QB. Bill is going to have enough difficulty getting in the HOF on the first ballot with Spygate on his resume, he doesn't need another reason for voters to question if he belongs there.

I’m just going on what Breer said today as he is a man who has read the book.