OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[203Pat]

That's not the argument. Of course not every player Brady doesn't take a liking to is a superstar.

The argument is that his fixation and liking of certain players, and his seeming willingness to freeze out those he doesn't trust, could lead to lost production if open players are missed, and/or if covered players are forced.

I'm not sure if that narrative is actually true because I simply haven't looked at enough of the data / the film, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility based on Brady's previous comments and some film others have shown.

... and just to be clear, before I get jumped all over, Brady is the GOAT and there's no QB I'd rather have.

I don't know what the argument was but I was responding to someone saying his legacy will be freezing people out. The notion that the most accomplished player in league history will be most remembered for not wanting to throw to N'Keal Harry and Jakobi Meyers is laughably stupid.

 

[catent]

Really the only silver lining here is that the new playoff format makes the result a little less devastating. Sure, the Saints or Bucs had a chance at the #1 seed, but chances are they’re both playing wild card weekend and needing to win 4 playoff games. Add in the limited HFA with Covid and you’re not talking about the same type of monumental disadvantage as last year. But the Bucs are going nowhere.

My guess is they fire Arians and hire McDaniels next season. Not that I think Josh is a great coach, but I just expect this to happen.

They’re exactly what we thought they’d be, only more talented (league leading DVOA by a wide margin.) They’re a typical Arians boom-or-bust team. Look no further than their results against Green Bay and New Orleans. To have three absolute blowouts when facing other strong teams isn’t a fluke but the quintessential Bruce Arians experience.

Arians fired wouldn't shock me, but a McDaniels hire might.

I'm not-so-sure Brady feels that strongly about McDaniels as an offensive coach, to be honest. I think they're good friends and probably respect each others' respective experience and ideas, but the murmurs about Brady's frustrations with play-calling / game-planning late during his time in New England might lead one to believe he was a bit frustrated with McDaniels.

Brady is going to have some decisions to make in the not-so-distant future. If he does want to play for another 2-3 seasons (after this one), he will need to figure out how he's going to maneuver within his current contract to either get what he wants in Tampa, or get to another location. Half makes you wonder if Brady might return to New England in 2022 should the Patriots reload with their cap room / draft picks and end up with some talented receiving options and continue to have a strong OL.

 

[IllegalContact]

he should have quit after beating the rams in the super bowl

 

[Sciz]

Any reason why you’re not switching Wirfs to left tackle? Jesus, Donovan Smith sucks.

I remember digging into this a few months ago, and "JoeBucsFan" of JoeBucsFan.com says Smith personally told him a few years ago that he wasn't physically capable of switching to the right side. That then would mean something like Wirfs to LT, Haeg to RT, and $13 million man Donovan Smith to the bench, but Haeg didn't exactly impress last night when given the opportunity at left guard.

 

[notex]

Mahomes/Reid is the best COMBO of QB/Coach and its not even close. Mahomes is insanely talented. I resisted for so long to admit he was the best in the NFL while we had Brady but some of the plays he makes are just INSANE.

 

[Kontradiction]

I don’t care who you are... this is great.

 

[catent]

I don't know what the argument was but I was responding to someone saying his legacy will be freezing people out. The notion that the most accomplished player in league history will be most remembered for not wanting to throw to N'Keal Harry and Jakobi Meyers is laughably stupid.

What's interesting to me is how much better Brady and Evans sync up when Evans is in the slot compared to when Evans is outside.

 

[sb1]

You have no idea how afraid I am of this... it would destroy me as a fan. I'd probably not watch any sport for a while if Brady was ever found or even accused of PED's, steroids or anything else.

Me too. That would be a kick right in the gut.

Tbh I never liked Brady's association with Alex Guerrero and this is the reason why.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Arians fired wouldn't shock me, but a McDaniels hire might.

I'm not-so-sure Brady feels that strongly about McDaniels as an offensive coach, to be honest. I think they're good friends and probably respect each others' respective experience and ideas, but the murmurs about Brady's frustrations with play-calling / game-planning late during his time in New England might lead one to believe he was a bit frustrated with McDaniels.

Brady is going to have some decisions to make in the not-so-distant future. If he does want to play for another 2-3 seasons (after this one), he will need to figure out how he's going to maneuver within his current contract to either get what he wants in Tampa, or get to another location. Half makes you wonder if Brady might return to New England in 2022 should the Patriots reload with their cap room / draft picks and end up with some receiving options and continue to have a strong OL.

Yeah, I'm not a huge Josh fan myself, and I heard they had some friction.

But what I'm sure Tom hates is that the Tampa offensive philosophy is so goddamned stupid. Running a bunch of X routes...lol . I don't think they've run more than five successful screens, pick plays, bunch routes all season.

But I'll say this for the zillionth time: the stupidest part about it is having heavy, downfield running backs as part of the passing game. These guys can (a) be covered by a linebacker just fine, (b) cannot catch anything besides a dumpoff, and (c) lack the speed and elusiveness to actually be effective after the catch. They badly need a guy like White, Faulk, or even someone who just has some speed...that guy, Vaughn, is a much better choice than Jones and Fournette.

In addition, it isn't very hard to just copy New England's concept (can't remember the name but it starts with an H), which is essentially a cheat code they've used for years in order to isolate Welker/Edelman/Brown/Amendola over the middle. Tampa has at least two guys (Godwin, Brown) who would excel having this play design, and with those skill players taking safeties back, you'll have the most favorable matchup possible.

Their asinine formations make it appear that they've already lost the play before the snap. It's like they've spaced out everyone for absolute minimum efficiency. Forget about motioning, moving around some very talented receivers, splitting a TE out wide, etc. It's just mind boggling stupid when you have that incredibly array of talented skill players.

So while Josh isn't my favorite coordinator, he would at least recognize the reasons why the offense plays like flaming dog sht about 33% of the time.

 

[amfootball]

This is pretty big news as the Bucs play the Panthers next.

Christian McCaffrey may miss time with shoulder injury

Panthers running back Christian McCaffrey suffered a shoulder injury at the end of Sunday's game that may force him to miss more time.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

 

[amfootball]

I don't know what the argument was but I was responding to someone saying his legacy will be freezing people out. The notion that the most accomplished player in league history will be most remembered for not wanting to throw to N'Keal Harry and Jakobi Meyers is laughably stupid.

Exactly. Not to mention he has the most TDs to the most different receivers in NFL history and is still adding to that record ...

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

I remember digging into this a few months ago, and "JoeBucsFan" of JoeBucsFan.com says Smith personally told him a few years ago that he wasn't physically capable of switching to the right side. That then would mean something like Wirfs to LT, Haeg to RT, and $13 million man Donovan Smith to the bench, but Haeg didn't exactly impress last night when given the opportunity at left guard.

They where missing their best linemen last night. Ali Marpet. They should try something because that OL won’t get it done come the playoffs.

 

[Sciz]

Now, Bucs fans are turning on Devin White. His pass rush production looks good from the outside, but fans are really fed up with his coverage deficiencies. He allowed the third most receiving yards among LBs coming into the weekend, and he struggled again last night. He's another of the many examples of how running a super fast 40 time does not make a guy a "coverage linebacker."

Update: PFR advanced stats aren't out until Wednesday, but PFF says White was targeted 11 times last night, allowing 11 completions for 79 yards.

 

[PittPatriot]

He bails out and makes poor choices more than he used to. Still a very good QB but pressure now gets to him even when it’s not really there. It’s a question of degree.

You and I are saying the same thing...but the "now" in your statement makes me think that you think this is a new thing with Tom. Tom has been bailing out and "seeing ghosts" for a few years. To his credit, he sticks it out on the big throws (bailing on a first quarter pocket collapse but standing in to take a hit and make a throw in the 4th quarter).
I love(d) the guy...but he had to always have a clean pocket to step up and throw from.

 

[PatsBoy12]

It's fascinating to see where fans' opinions differ from the consensus from outside the team. That used to be Donovan Smith for the Bucs, but now it seems everybody knows that he's going to have a few absolutely terrible games despite being a six-year starter on a $13 million per year contract.

Now, Bucs fans are turning on Devin White. His pass rush production looks good from the outside, but fans are really fed up with his coverage deficiencies. He allowed the third most receiving yards among LBs coming into the weekend, and he struggled again last night. He's another of the many examples of how running a super fast 40 time does not make a guy a "coverage linebacker."

Yeah, he sucks in coverage. He's really bad at it. But he's only in his second season, so I hesitate to be too hard in him.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Mike Evan's and Godwin should both play a majority in the slot. Miller has proven to be a good outside deep threat. Brown can play anywhere.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Starting to suspect Brady doesn't like Evans.

I know he was injured, but it's been awhile now. He has mainly thrown to him on simple, designed 1-on-1 red zone routes like quick fades and slants...meaning he likes his athleticism but maybe not his ability to read the defense with an open field?

I read on the Tampa forum this offseason that Evans is an incredibly talented receiver who also is a freelancer; you see his gaudy numbers but don't see all of the forced interceptions his way.

The needle is down at the moment...maybe I'm overreacting...but this sure seems like a freeze out situation and makes the AB transaction more understandable too.

 

[amfootball]

Starting to suspect Brady doesn't like Evans.

I know he was injured, but it's been awhile now. He has mainly thrown to him on simple, designed 1-on-1 red zone routes like quick fades and slants...meaning he likes his athleticism but maybe not his ability to read the defense with an open field?

I read on the Tampa forum this offseason that Evans is an incredibly talented receiver who also is a freelancer; you see his gaudy numbers but don't see all of the forced interceptions his way.

The needle is down at the moment...maybe I'm overreacting...but this sure seems like a freeze out situation and makes the AB transaction more understandable too.

Eh, I don't know about that. Mike has been really injured. I believe Brady has thrown the most TDs to him but defenses have schemed to take him away. I don't have any explanation for last night except for a great defensive scheme from NO and no adjustment from Tampa.

 

[PatsBoy12]

 

[PatsBoy12]