OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[Lagaffe_07]

I think the most important piece in their Brady offense now is Godwin. If Brown can get to speed quickly, their two most productive weapons will be Godwin, Browns and even Gronk third. Evans will be the third or fourth option.

It is really hard to judge this Bucs team because now they are 6-3 but are 6-1 against the teams not named the Saints. The bears game is more an anomaly than the norm. Godwin wasn't playing and Evans should not have played. their leadings receiver was Tyler Johnson.

They look bad twice against the Saints but look really good against the Packers which are one of the three best teams in the NFC. Payton is accustomed to play against Evans and Godwin. The saints look to have the Bucs number like the Patriots had the jets or the Bills number.

It will be interesting to see how this team will play against the Rams and the Chiefs. for the sake of the argument, let's say they finish the season 13-3 or 12-4 that would mean they would be 13-1 or 12-2 against teams that are not the Saints. that would be pretty great.

My point is, are the two saints games more a product of who the Bucs really are overall or more of a product of division games against a good team who knows how to play you and has your number? for context, the saints swept them last year as well.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

NVM

 

[amfootball]

I think the most important piece in their Brady offense now is Godwin. If Brown can get to speed quickly, their two most productive weapons will be Godwin, Browns and even Gronk third. Evans will be the third or fourth option.

It is really hard to judge this Bucs team because now they are 6-3 but are 6-1 against the teams not named the Saints. The bears game is more an anomaly than the norm. Godwin wasn't playing and Evans should not have played. their leadings receiver was Tyler Johnson.

They look bad twice against the Saints but look really good against the Packers which are one of the three best teams in the NFC. Payton is accustomed to play against Evans and Godwin. The saints look to have the Bucs number like the Patriots had the jets or the Bills number.

It will be interesting to see how this team will play against the Rams and the Chiefs. for the sake of the argument, let's say they finish the season 13-3 or 12-4 that would mean they would be 13-1 or 12-2 against teams that are not the Saints. that would be pretty great.

My point is, are the two saints games more a product of who the Bucs really are overall or more of a product of division games against a good team who knows how to play you and has your number? for context, the saints swept them last year as well.

I am not sure. I think the Saints do have their number but they have been pretty shaky in other games too - Bears, Chargers, Giants. They have a pretty tough Carolina team on the road on Sunday. McCaffrey hurt his shoulder is day-to-day. They really need to come out with much more rhythm on offense in this game.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

I am not sure. I think the Saints do have their number but they have been pretty shaky in other games too - Bears, Chargers, Giants. They have a pretty tough Carolina team on the road on Sunday. McCaffrey hurt his shoulder is day-to-day. They really need to come out with much more rhythm on offense in this game.

I can agree with that.

 

[condon84]

The LGTBrady community isn't gonna like this - Bruce Arians criticizes Tom Brady, again - ProFootballTalk

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The LGTBrady community isn't gonna like this - Bruce Arians criticizes Tom Brady, again - ProFootballTalk

It had to be said since everyone was giving Brady huge compliments and thought he played great.

 

[amfootball]

It had to be said since everyone was giving Brady huge compliments and thought he played great.

LOL. No kidding. I actually don't mind Arians giving his thoughts on who was open and the routes being run. I very much doubt it bothers Tom either. He knows they need to get it into gear vs Panthers this week.

 

[Sciz]

Is he wrong, though?

Don't mean to be snarky, I legitimately haven't watched the film.

It seems perfectly possible that he's right. Only way to know is to watch.

Bucs Briefing: Was Mike Evans Really Open? | Pewter Report

Questions continue about Bucs WR Mike Evans' lack of production in 2020, so Jon Ledyard reviewed the tape against the Saints to check it out.

www.pewterreport.com

The summary here seems to be that in the 10 passes (excluding two screens) prior to being down 28-0, Evans was really open once.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Borderline denial if you think Brady trusts Evans at this point. A 1200-1400 yard receiver on pace for 800 yards despite playing almost every snap. Injuries do not explain this gap. Two weeks ago, Arians said Evans was over 80%. Evans has continued to make some really athletic plays that make the injury factor seem more and more overblown.

Brady only throws to him near the goal line on simple, designed routes against 1-on-1 coverages. Stuff like fades and quick slants. Barely targets him in open field when coverages involve reads.

Arians has publicly called out Brady twice now for not throwing to Evans enough.

Antonio Brown has been brought in despite Arian saying in the offseason he’s never sign him.

How can we not draw the conclusion that Evans is outside Brady’s circle of trust?

 

[SVN]

Arians takes no responsibility of having his team underprepared. Says the 3rd down shouldve gone to brown instead of gronk.Well he can step on the field and try with the pocket collapsing. they didnt run the ball, help his QB out with the oline but a day after is looking at all the people running open while his QB is getting killed.
Also , Arians refuses to kick a FG down 14-0 but then kicks a FG down 38-0. Really , what a dumbass.

 

[catent]

And that's why I don't think it's completely unfair to question Brady's approach at times. Evans isn't *just* a physical, perimeter guy. He's a talented WR, has good feet, pretty smart, much more than just a pure jump-ball guy, and yet he's underutilized at the moment.

For whatever reason, Tom seems a lot more comfortable throwing in the slot and reading the field from inside-to-out. It's why Scotty freaking Miller is thriving but Mike Evans isn't. Not saying this is *ALL* on Brady, I'm sure Evans could be better himself, but this isn't a fluke.

Who was the last perimeter receiver to thrive with Brady? Mitchell? LaFell? Sort of. Gronk, kind of, when he lined up outside for a play here-or-there. But you really have to go all the way back to Moss to see a perimeter guy Brady clicked with.

I'm not necessarily saying this is entirely a bad thing, but you need to curate your team and personnel to fit Brady. Godwin, Brown, Miller, Gronk (when he was physically capable) are good fits. Evans ... not so much. They still have good players who Brady should be able to gel with so the fact that they haven't had more production is a massive indictment on Arians.

 

[amfootball]

And that's why I don't think it's completely unfair to question Brady's approach at times. Evans isn't *just* a physical, perimeter guy. He's a talented WR, has good feet, pretty smart, much more than just a pure jump-ball guy, and yet he's underutilized at the moment.

For whatever reason, Tom seems a lot more comfortable throwing in the slot and reading the field from inside-to-out. It's why Scotty freaking Miller is thriving but Mike Evans isn't. Not saying this is *ALL* on Brady, I'm sure Evans could be better himself, but this isn't a fluke.

Who was the last perimeter receiver to thrive with Brady? Mitchell? LaFell? Sort of. Gronk, kind of, when he lined up outside for a play here-or-there. But you really have to go all the way back to Moss to see a perimeter guy Brady clicked with.

That is the Pats approach. Work from the inside out. Probably tough at this point for Brady to change the mindset especially when you have beasts like Godwin and Miller and now AB. I don't hear Evans complaining. He does lead the team in TDs. Plus it is only half way through the season. They are still all figuring each other and many guys have been in and out of the line up.

 

[carmelo15]

Arians takes no responsibility of having his team underprepared. Says the 3rd down shouldve gone to brown instead of gronk.Well he can step on the field and try with the pocket collapsing. they didnt run the ball, help his QB out with the oline but a day after is looking at all the people running open while his QB is getting killed.
Also , Arians refuses to kick a FG down 14-0 but then kicks a FG down 38-0. Really , what a dumbass.

What coach says this **** man

 

[libra957]

Seems like the bucs have a vanilla offense that's easy to figure out.

Arians takes no responsibility of having his team underprepared. Says the 3rd down shouldve gone to brown instead of gronk.Well he can step on the field and try with the pocket collapsing. they didnt run the ball, help his QB out with the oline but a day after is looking at all the people running open while his QB is getting killed.
Also , Arians refuses to kick a FG down 14-0 but then kicks a FG down 38-0. Really , what a dumbass.

He didn't want to get shut out. Everything about Arian is questionable .

 

[JMC00]

outside Brady’s circle of trust

So I know people don't want to because it's recency reactionary bias but uh....... Jakobi Meyers

416 offensive snaps w/Brady
41 targets
26 rec
359 yards

207 offensive snaps w/Newton
31 targets
23 rec
294 yards

Almost the same production but in half the snaps.

and Meyers is a good example because I saw with my own eyes at least 2-3 times Brady give Meyers the death stare last year.

 

[203Pat]

So I know people don't want to because it's recency reactionary bias but uh....... Jakobi Meyers

416 offensive snaps w/Brady
41 targets
26 rec
359 yards

207 offensive snaps w/Newton
31 targets
23 rec
294 yards

Almost the same production but in half the snaps.

and Meyers is a good example because I saw with my own eyes at least 2-3 times Brady give Meyers the death stare last year.

You ever think that maybe, just maybe, he got better from his rookie year into his second year?

 

[1960Pats]

So I know people don't want to because it's recency reactionary bias but uh....... Jakobi Meyers

416 offensive snaps w/Brady
41 targets
26 rec
359 yards

207 offensive snaps w/Newton
31 targets
23 rec
294 yards

Almost the same production but in half the snaps.

and Meyers is a good example because I saw with my own eyes at least 2-3 times Brady give Meyers the death stare last year.

So what? Maybe Myers was making mistakes in his rookie year that he isn't making this year. It certainly isn't because Newton has better recognition than Brady had, and he definitely isn't as accurate.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

So I know people don't want to because it's recency reactionary bias but uh....... Jakobi Meyers

416 offensive snaps w/Brady
41 targets
26 rec
359 yards

207 offensive snaps w/Newton
31 targets
23 rec
294 yards

Almost the same production but in half the snaps.

and Meyers is a good example because I saw with my own eyes at least 2-3 times Brady give Meyers the death stare last year.

Before Edelman and Harry got injured, he barely played. We only have Byrd and him at receiver basically. The patriots have been forced to rely on him and good for him he made the most of his opportunities.

last year he was the fourth receiver behind Edelman, Harry and Dorsett. He wasn’t on the field much but when he was, he was the 3rd or 4th read on the play. You get a snap count but no stats for it. That’s the reason of the stats you posted not that he has transformed in Julio Jones.

this year Cam had to tell him 2-3 times where he had to go. My guess is it’s why he didn’t play more at the beginning. He still making rookie mistakes.

 

[Boomer B]

Arians had the deer in the headlights look the whole game. The Saints d-line crushed the pocket from the 1st play. How did he only call 5 runs the whole game. After the 1st drive they should have changed it up, brought in extra protection, run the ball more. He’s got to take his share of the blame for not adjusting in the game.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

You ever think that maybe, just maybe, he got better from his rookie year into his second year?

That was a fantastic regurgitation of stats you quoted lacking any sort of context. Almost like being buried on the depth chart by 3 other receivers, or being a rookie has an impact from year one to two. So weird!