OT kind of : Goodell has done irreparable harm

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Joker

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you'll have to wait for the world wide premiere, PM...sawree
 

MagicMarker

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
I agree.

Home teams in the NFL win 57% of the time. That's the largest home advantage of any sport except the NBA. If you ask someone why that is, they would probably say crowd noise. So, it would seem that piping in crowd noise would be FAR worse than anything the Patriots did. And, if the penalty for Spygate and Deflategate, what should the penalty for that be? Two number 1s? A forfeit? No! Atlanta only got dinged a fourth (plus a fine and a suspension for the team president). But, like I said -- far, far worse than anything the Patriots did.

How about talking to the QB with a walkie talkie after it should be turned off? The coach could tell the QB what the coverage is EVEN WHO TO THROW TO if he's talking to him during the play. That is also way, way, worse than anything the Patriots did. Was that more than a first round choice? No! The Giants only dropped eight picks in the 4th round.

So, yeah, I blame Roger Goodell. We're tabbed as cheaters, but ask someone about worse infractions and most likely not have known about them.

One more....when someone says "What about videotaping practices?" just make sure you answer "you mean the Broncos?".
 

TB_Helmet

In the Starting Line-Up
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
This is a larger symptom of our country IMO and probably the world at large.

I'm pretty logic-inclined and have always believed you can have an argument on its own merits and whoever has the superior reasoning wins the argument.

The past few years, maybe even starting right around the whole Deflategate scandal, I don't think that's the case anymore. People choose which side of the argument they want to be on based on what group they belong to, and then they disagree with the other group regardless of how good a point that group has. Any evidence that goes against their side is disregarded irrationally.

This happens in sports, where tribal alliance is easily defined since it's just your own team (but it's usually easier to have a discussion about some things because wins and losses usually provide a hard cutoff about whose side is 'better' in a given year). Of course in politics, reason has completely gone out the window, and God help you if you try to have any discussion on its own merit when you're arguing with the other side.

Combine that with the fact that people are easily distracted, can't focus on one thing for very long, have trouble with nuance and shades of gray, and in many cases are just really ****ing stupid, spike it with conspiracy theories, social media, and tiny screens in our pocket, and you get situations in the OP where no matter what you tell them about how the Patriots 'scandals' were either due to the laws of physics, were fabricated, or were technical violations that contributed nothing to their success, they still won't come over to your side because the sense of wanting to belong to their own group outweighs their sense of reason.
 

NENGFAN

On the Game Day Roster
Very true. Even if the NFL says today that Pats never cheated and NFL was wrong, Pats were right - people will still believe they cheated. Heck they think spygate was spying on practices!

It’s sad though. Smart people get fooled like this just because they want to believe what they want to believe. That’s why I’m done trying to prove Pats didn’t cheat because it doesn’t matter - whenever I bring facts - they tune out. Just need one good line to say and be done with it.

Still feel deflategate was one of the biggest travesties in sports history. Besmirching a guy like Tom Brady’s name for a stupid rumor that wasn’t even true. Hate the NFL under Goodell.

This is a larger symptom of our country IMO and probably the world at large.

I'm pretty logic-inclined and have always believed you can have an argument on its own merits and whoever has the superior reasoning wins the argument.

The past few years, maybe even starting right around the whole Deflategate scandal, I don't think that's the case anymore. People choose which side of the argument they want to be on based on what group they belong to, and then they disagree with the other group regardless of how good a point that group has. Any evidence that goes against their side is disregarded irrationally.

This happens in sports, where tribal alliance is easily defined since it's just your own team (but it's usually easier to have a discussion about some things because wins and losses usually provide a hard cutoff about whose side is 'better' in a given year). Of course in politics, reason has completely gone out the window, and God help you if you try to have any discussion on its own merit when you're arguing with the other side.

Combine that with the fact that people are easily distracted, can't focus on one thing for very long, have trouble with nuance and shades of gray, and in many cases are just really ****ing stupid, spike it with conspiracy theories, social media, and tiny screens in our pocket, and you get situations in the OP where no matter what you tell them about how the Patriots 'scandals' were either due to the laws of physics, were fabricated, or were technical violations that contributed nothing to their success, they still won't come over to your side because the sense of wanting to belong to their own group outweighs their sense of reason.
 

maust1013

Just Another Guy
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just wait until someone kidnaps Goodell after he retires, takes him to an abandoned warehouse and goes to work on him with a blowtorch and a pair of vise grips....:mad:
Fnordplay?
 

Pape

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I like to tell people it, the cheating, never happened. Ask them what they did?

Film in an out of bounds location? Ok... They broke a rule... That's not cheating... Why were they punished? The Rog was making his bones as a disciplinarian...

The deflated football? The league spent 20 million dollars and determined nothing.. the science was so bad, the league was forced to abandoned it, and turned it into The Rogs' article 6 powers argument... Ask em how the psi monitoring program iss working out ..

I love arguments like that... Could do it all day long... Attack their ignorance about what really happened and people back the **** right down... And don't forget to throw some righteous indignation in there as well...
 

Adam Seward

IAN 2020
PatsFans.com Supporter
You aren’t expecting an actual earnest conversation with these people on that topic? If so, you’re delusional, the world wide leader in sports has spun that narrative so hard, stopping it would cause a tear in the universe, rain would flow upwards, pigs would become kosher and halal, bee population would rise, cancer cured, and America would stop being a punchline to many jokes.

Not on Disney/Jetdells watch.
 

venecol

The FRG has a little ****
PatsFans.com Supporter
just wait until someone kidnaps Goodell after he retires, takes him to an abandoned warehouse and goes to work on him with a blowtorch and a pair of vise grips....:mad:
Dexter is that you?
 

DarrylS

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This cheating BS is the fodder for sportstalk radio who foster conspiracy theories at any opportunity.. from what I have hear over the years that is where this lives and will always have a life. Many times I hear people using these conspiracy theories as something that it the truth.. locally the Felger BS about the "Cap is Crap" always seems to pop up, there are so many.

OTOH sounds like the original post is from Giants/Jets country, and aside from two Superbowls by the Giants those teams have languished from poor management and lousy coaching.. NYJ last SB appearance was in 1969?? Dreams of Joe Namath are what keep their belief in that team.

Goes back to the trite response of, "They hate us, because they ain't us"...

I spend time in NOLA and every time I go they respect the Pats, a reason I suspect is that they have been the other "red headed step child" of the NFL.. "Bounty Gate" and really lousy officiating come to mind along with a consistent winning team.. Saints fans get it and respect us, but the NYJ and NYG fans do not.. Border war???
 

doesntmatter1

In the Starting Line-Up
All I have to say is if we are cheaters, we need to do it better because losing to the Dolphins and Titans suck lol. Camera location off by a few feet and slightly flat balls are pretty pathetic cheating accusations. People treat our team like we committed hardcore felonies when we did nothing more than misdemeanors at best.

We should be held in higher regard than actual cheaters such as the Broncos and their salary cap, steelers roids, or even the habitual teams like the Ravens and Seahawks with their constant tampering in fa.
 

Ian

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
Was on vacation over the Christmas holiday and had a Pats t-shirt on and twice had someone start that nonsense but the irritating thing is not only did they bring up that, but they brought up the “They taped the walkthrough’ during Brady’s first Super Bowl”.

Both times I said, “You realize that actually didn’t happen and that the paper that reported it published an apology?”

To no surprise, each time was a snarky response of “Doesn’t matter, they’re cheaters.”

And so I felt sorry for their stupidity and went on living my life.

But I agree...it’s annoying and the deflate gate thing pushed me over the edge on Goodell. Just a stupid, stupid decision on his part to not push back and do the right thing when it was obvious nothing happened and I’ll always strongly dislike him just for that reason.
 

Tony2046

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I just say " you took away the cameras and they won more...... Then you took away the deflated footballs and they won even more. Five super appearances later I'm hoping you accuse them of something else"

" Oh and the Jete suck". " I mean epically suck"

" I mean there's no other team that has sucked more in the history of the NFL."

" I mean the Jete suck on a comedic butt fumbly level of suckage".
 

Tony2046

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just wait until someone kidnaps Goodell after he retires, takes him to an abandoned warehouse and goes to work on him with a blowtorch and a pair of vise grips....:mad:
Asking for a friend. Is waterboarding with hydrochloric acid still considered waterboarding?
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
“No they didn’t cheat” works well in my experience. Then facts and logic will be listened to. Brady of course wasn’t suspended for “cheating”- a court threw that out. He was suspended because the 2nd circuit agreed that Goodell had the power to do so for any reason he wished. Even he admitted that’s why they appealed.

I find from my own experience most non Pats fans agree that deflategate was a farce.
 
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sb1

Pro Bowl Player
Patriots also didn’t tape practices. The walkthrough story was false and retracted.

The Broncos were fined for that though. :)

But if a link was found between Bill and the video guy around taping the Bengals sidelines... that would be tough to defend. Glad that does not appear to be the case.
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
Getting the sense that the Astros thing is good for the Patriots perception in the eyes of the non fan.

At worst if the Patriots were guilty of Spygate and deflategate then its still debatable how much it helps them.

What the Astros did is blatant and clearly cheating and it’s not hard to understand why it was cheating.
 
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