OT: Brandon Marshall to Miami for 2010 2nd and 2011 2nd

[patsinthesnow]

Seriously?

Because when you're debating an issue with other posters, their ability to comprehend the actual argument you're making is pretty much critical. This isn't exactly rocket science.

"you think....some people are comical..thanks for the laugh and you just keep wearing those glasses,you look good in them....

Nothing further to say your honor.... Damione Lewis is a defense savior,you win

I will check for you at the Patriots shop to see if they have any Damione Lewis jerseys in stock...I know you want one of each color and I hear the price is reasonable"

It's easily understandable, what he do? Use defense instead of defensive, big woop.

 

[Ring 6]

I'd think this increases the odds of Denver taking Bryant.

I dont know. Why trade one headache and pick up another?
I don't see us taking him either unless BB was bowled over by his character.

What I don't get is why people who think WR is a huge need wanted:
1) Boldin who is unreliable because of health and fragilty
2) Holmes who is suspended for 4 games and odds on favorite to violate again
3) Marshall, who it is extremely doubtful can conduct his personal life well enough to be allowed to stay in the NFL, and who quit on his last team and
4) Bryant who has a checkered past and missed last season after being suspended

What good is that expensive talent going to do us if it won't be on the field?

 

[JackBauer]

"you think....some people are comical..thanks for the laugh and you just keep wearing those glasses,you look good in them....

Nothing further to say your honor.... Damione Lewis is a defense savior,you win

I will check for you at the Patriots shop to see if they have any Damione Lewis jerseys in stock...I know you want one of each color and I hear the price is reasonable"

It's easily understandable, what he do? Use defense instead of defensive, big woop.

Good lord.

As tortured as it is, I'm not taking issue with his grammar or syntax. What I'm taking issue with is his presentation of the arguments I've made.

There's a term for this sort of logical fallacy: Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Good lord.

As tortured as it is, I'm not taking issue with his grammar or syntax. What I'm taking issue with is his presentation of the arguments I've made.

There's a term for this sort of logical fallacy: Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When did you pick up that Burgess jersey last year Jack?,I know you were excited about that deal...and how about that Galloway guy?...what a steal

What I want to know is for the past year or two,how do we get so lucky getting these dominating FAs on this team when so many are calling these guys up begging to sign them?,we must have a special connection

 

[Ring 6]

Boldin was acquired the first day of free agency, so he wasnt available for very long so apparently he wasnt much of a risk. Boldin's time in Arizona was up, he wants to be the primary WR on the team he plays for. In AZ he had Fitzgerald and also Breaston is an upcoming WR. Just because a player isnt necessarily happy with one team doesnt mean that he will be an issue with every other team he might play for.

That is what I meant with the Patriots not wanting to pay Boldin. They didnt want to give him the long-term, big money deal. Thats how the Pats FO operates, like you said they give one year deals so that the players have the chance to prove themselves and the Pats a chance to evaluate them and see if they want to give them a long term deal. AD comes to mind as a player that didnt fall into the not sign to a long term big money deal and look how that turned out.

But Boldin wasnt going to be #1 here, in fact he would be #3 when Welker is healthy, so how does that help with the issue you brought up?

They will give long term big money deals to guys who deserve them. Fragile, injury prone, slow WRs who have gaudy stats due to the system they played in aren't in that category of deserving them.
We could all be GMs if quality decisions depended upon reading a stat line and opening a checkbook, but spending somewhere between 5-10% of your budget on one player requires deeper analysis, you know like knowing his personality, getting reports on how he REALLY acted in Az, knowing what the medical reports really say, etc, etc.
There are many players in the NFL that fit the 'good player, bad investment' category.

 

[The Dynasty]

First, Boldin was dangled all of last offseason and the Cards couldn't get value for a trade. They had to lower their demands this year to get it done. The Cards didn't want him because he wanted to much, caused headaches, and was injury prone the way he plays.

Second, the Pats do not do one year deals with everyone. They wanted to give Bodden a long term deal before last year, but he was the one who wanted a short deal. They only do it with players that they have concerns about whether they will play to a level of their contract. It really has nothing to do with Thomas although they blew that one because they thought they were getting a different player than he was and he wasn't a team guy.

Personally, I think Boldin is less of a risk than either Marshall or Holmes based soley on the player and not what was given up (granted Holmes is a lower risk just because the Jets only lose a fifth round pick if he is a bust). But I can see the Pats' thinking and why they didn't pay the money. Boldin does play with reckless abandon and that is a risk with a guy who is going to be 30 in October and hasn't been healthy enough to play a full season since 2006. I am disapointed the Pats didn't get him, but I don't think it was a huge mistake that the Pats were assleep at the wheel. I wouldn't be shocked a year or two down the road if the Ravens regret making the investment.

How can you criticize a player for playing the game hard and the way it was meant to be played? What do you want Boldin to do? Not give it his all because theres a chance he might get injured? What kind of logic is that? He missed one game last season and then 4 the 2 seasons before that. Not like hes missing half and entire seasons.

Boldin's time was done in AZ, things happen people generally dont stay with the same team their whole careers. A lot of teams were interested in Boldin this off season. You are acting like nobody wanted the guy and the Ravens are taking a huge risk by trading for him. Why would the Ravens regret this down the road? They gave up a 3rd and a 4th round pick, not like it was a 1st rounder or even a 2nd.

As a general principal the Patriots usually only give one year deals to FA, obviously there will be exceptions to that. With the Thomas thing I was just making an example as to when signing a FA to a long term big money deal ended up by hurting them.

Honestly, what is your opinion of the 2010 Pats team? What will their record be? Where will they finish in the AFC East?

 

[JackBauer]

When did you pick up that Burgess jersey last year Jack?,I know you were excited about that deal...and how about that Galloway guy?...what a steal

Yawn.

Wake me up when you have something of interest to say.

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't think it's a question of being able to afford the players financially or in terms of the cost of draft picks, although the price shouldn't be minimized, nor should the risk that these guys aren't able to be on the field to help a team.

If Belichick wanted any of them he could have had them.

Then people need to (Please be quiet - edited) about "value". Top 10 receivers in the NFL clearly have more value than 5th and 2nd round picks. His willingness to drop $9+ million on Moss shows that pretty clearly.

What is clear is that he did a cost benefit analysis and likely decided that the $10 million a season would be better spent elsewhere, and that he preferred to hold on to what amounts to four 1st Round Draft choices this season (i.e. if one accepts the notion that this draft is deep enough to have 1st round talent available in the 2nd round.)

No such thing is clear at all. You're making assumptions, nothing more. One could just as easily assume that he tried lowballing the other teams, for example.

Those four picks stand a VERY good chance of being quality long term starters for a very affordable price, while allowing Belichick to spend his veteran $$ on something like, say a Tom Brady extension or other player.

Second round picks have less than a 50% success rate. The success rate of Anquan Boldin has been 100%, by comparison.

Meanwhile Holmes is one wake and bake away from being suspended for a year and Marshall's turd factor makes the $29 million guaranteed investment significantly dicey.

Yes, some players come with issues. Randy Moss came with issues and has been a great addition for the most part. AdT supposedly didn't have issues, yet this board has months crucifying him as a bad guy and a locker room problem. This stuff is a player-by-player thing. I think that it's fair to say that BB deciding not to take Marshall or Holmes should not be bashed as long as his reasoning was sound. We simply don't know that reasoning, so we're all guessing. I, personally, assume that his reasoning on those two was informed, rational, reasoned and sound, but that's just an assumption on my part. Or, as you put it down below, it's me giving him the 'benefit of the doubt'.

The bottom line is that Belichick's cost benefit analysis stopped him from pulling the trigger. I'm not saying Belichick is always right (see: The Reche Caldwell era) but I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt over you or any Patsfan on these judgment calls.

Well, you can give him all the benefits you want. He did a crap job in 2009, and he needs to do a much better job this year, regardless of how much doubt you choose to give the the benefit of.

 

[N.Eman]

Re: Brandon Marshall to Miami

The Fish and the Jests get better on their WR spot....i.e. "better teammates" ..as long as they win

 

[The Dynasty]

But Boldin wasnt going to be #1 here, in fact he would be #3 when Welker is healthy, so how does that help with the issue you brought up?

They will give long term big money deals to guys who deserve them. Fragile, injury prone, slow WRs who have gaudy stats due to the system they played in aren't in that category of deserving them.
We could all be GMs if quality decisions depended upon reading a stat line and opening a checkbook, but spending somewhere between 5-10% of your budget on one player requires deeper analysis, you know like knowing his personality, getting reports on how he REALLY acted in Az, knowing what the medical reports really say, etc, etc.
There are many players in the NFL that fit the 'good player, bad investment' category.

I didnt have a problem with the Patriots not getting Boldin. He doesnt really fit into the Patriots system and he was demanding a long term big money contract, which the Patriots were reluctant to give. But, if he would have taken a one year deal then I dont see any reason as to why the Patriots should not have wanted to bring him here. We could have given him a chance to fit in here and its one year, if he doesnt work out and becomes an issue then he doesnt get resigned.

 

[PatsGuy]

I dont know. Why trade one headache and pick up another?
I don't see us taking him either unless BB was bowled over by his character.

What I don't get is why people who think WR is a huge need wanted:
1) Boldin who is unreliable because of health and fragilty
2) Holmes who is suspended for 4 games and odds on favorite to violate again
3) Marshall, who it is extremely doubtful can conduct his personal life well enough to be allowed to stay in the NFL, and who quit on his last team and
4) Bryant who has a checkered past and missed last season after being suspended

What good is that expensive talent going to do us if it won't be on the field?

aahh...so you must be referring to the prolific wo from North Carolina who the Pats drafted knowing he had missed his senior year with a knee injury and..who saw little or no time here after a second injury and subsequent IR.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Yawn.

Wake me up when you have something of interest to say.

I thought I was on your ignore list...unless you have ESP then its amazing how you can respond
....I only hope talent like that translates to our new FAs in terms of physical ability

 

[Rob0729]

How can you criticize a player for playing the game hard and the way it was meant to be played? What do you want Boldin to do? Not give it his all because theres a chance he might get injured? What kind of logic is that? He missed one game last season and then 4 the 2 seasons before that. Not like hes missing half and entire seasons.

Boldin's time was done in AZ, things happen people generally dont stay with the same team their whole careers. A lot of teams were interested in Boldin this off season. You are acting like nobody wanted the guy and the Ravens are taking a huge risk by trading for him. Why would the Ravens regret this down the road? They gave up a 3rd and a 4th round pick, not like it was a 1st rounder or even a 2nd.

How am I criticizing him? I am stating he plays with reckless abandonment. That means his chances of getting a season or career ending injury goes up. He already has chronic hamstring issues and will be 30 by the end of the year. That isn't criticism. That is a concern though.

As a general principal the Patriots usually only give one year deals to FA, obviously there will be exceptions to that. With the Thomas thing I was just making an example as to when signing a FA to a long term big money deal ended up by hurting them.

Not true at all. Fred Taylor got a multiple year deal. Shawn Springs got a multiple year deal. Joey Galloway got a multiple year deal.

Honestly, what is your opinion of the 2010 Pats team? What will their record be? Where will they finish in the AFC East?

It is about the same as it was last year with still plenty of time to improve. Don't have a clue at this point on either of the last two questions. There hasn't been a draft yet and free agency isn't over.

Seriously, people on this board think that we are in some 80s body swapping movie where Belichick and Matt Millen found an ancient bowl that caused them to swap bodies and hilarity ensues.

 

[Yfz01]

Miami

QB-Hene<<<<<<Brady

Receivers-Brandon>>>>>>>>Moss

RB-Williams and Brown>>>>>>Taylor and Maroney

Our defense is better, only because of the pieces the Dolphins will lose, IE Taylor. Without Welker the gap is closed.

Jets-isn't it obvious?

Moss is better than Marshall.

Just throw him on defense and this will happen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIKwu93MhrQ

 

[Rob0729]

I didnt have a problem with the Patriots not getting Boldin. He doesnt really fit into the Patriots system and he was demanding a long term big money contract, which the Patriots were reluctant to give. But, if he would have taken a one year deal then I dont see any reason as to why the Patriots should not have wanted to bring him here. We could have given him a chance to fit in here and its one year, if he doesnt work out and becomes an issue then he doesnt get resigned.

Except Boldin wanted a long term deal and someone was willing to give it to him. The Pats had no shot at him without a long term deal and you didn't even want the guy.

 

[ALP]

the only reason i would not take a chance on this guys is because of team chemistry....and locker room leadership

it seemed like a problem on the team last year (granted more so on defense, but still) and i think these guys MAY have served to break the team apart even more, where we need it to be put back together again

so....ill use the above reason to make me feel better when i see the jets and fins have a better wr corp than us until welker comes back

 

[Ring 6]

aahh...so you must be referring to the prolific wo from North Carolina who the Pats drafted knowing he had missed his senior year with a knee injury and..who saw little or no time here after a second injury and subsequent IR.

I dont understand your point?
You are comparing a mid round draft choice who sustains an injury to mega contracts to players whose off field problems make them potentially unable to participate in the league?
Let me guess you would have traded the Tate pick for Pacman JOnes?

 

[Rob0729]

the only reason i would not take a chance on this guys is because of team chemistry....and locker room leadership

it seemed like a problem on the team last year (granted more so on defense, but still) and i think these guys MAY have served to break the team apart even more, where we need it to be put back together again

so....ill use the above reason to make me feel better when i see the jets and fins have a better wr corp than us until welker comes back

It is kinda funny that the same people who complained about the Pats allowing leaders go like Vrabel and Seymour are now complaining about not getting lockerroom cancers like Marshall or Holmes.

 

[Ring 6]

It is kinda funny that the same people who complained about the Pats allowing leaders go like Vrabel and Seymour are now complaining about not getting lockerroom cancers like Marshall or Holmes.

Actually that is entirely consistent

 

[The Dynasty]

How am I criticizing him? I am stating he plays with reckless abandonment. That means his chances of getting a season or career ending injury goes up. He already has chronic hamstring issues and will be 30 by the end of the year. That isn't criticism. That is a concern though.

Well, you are acting like its a bad thing that he plays the game so hard. Because of the way Tebow plays the game does that decrease his value because he is more likely to get a season or career ending injury than someone that doesnt play the game as hard? If a player that plays the game hard suffers a season/career ending injury then so be it, it happens, its football. Rodney Harrison perfect example. It isnt going to necessarily effect the way a team views a player, normally teams what a player that plays the game with emotion and heart.

Not true at all. Fred Taylor got a multiple year deal. Shawn Springs got a multiple year deal. Joey Galloway got a multiple year deal.

Actually Galloway got a one year deal. Bodden got a one year deal. Burgess was a one year deal. Like I said there are exceptions where FA do get multi year deals, but as a general principal and rule of thumb the Pats FO usually signs FA's to one year deals in order for them to prove themselves

It is about the same as it was last year with still plenty of time to improve. Don't have a clue at this point on either of the last two questions. There hasn't been a draft yet and free agency isn't over.

Seriously, people on this board think that we are in some 80s body swapping movie where Belichick and Matt Millen found an ancient bowl that caused them to swap bodies and hilarity ensues.

Yeah the season is still 5 months away but still Patriots fans and the FO need to recognize how much better the Jets and the Dolphins have gotten this off season and the Pats have a lot of ground to make up. I am not saying it isnt possible, but many signings and impact draft picks need to be made.