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[Old 2020 thread] NFL Free Agency/Trade Rumors:

2020 Patriots Season:
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Deus Irae

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
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Winslow will be available in 14 years, if you're interested.
That'll probably still be an upgrade over this past seasons TEs.

 

RIpats88

In the Starting Line-Up
That line right there is the biggest load of BS under the sun. Brady had a S**T year because of the issues on the O-line. You know. Losing Andrews right before the start of the season. Losing Wynn in the 2nd game. Mason and Cannon played injured all year and each missed a game so their play wasn't what we usually see from them.. Karras missed a game and forced Ferentz to start at Center.

Brady could have had all the weapons in the world and it still would have been his worst year, statistically. And remember, it wasn't until Wynn came back that the Running game turned improved substantially and the offense improved. By then, the defense had fallen apart.

It was abit of both though. I remember the media was saying receivers couldn't get any separation. So brady had to hold onto the ball longer. Not a good recipe for success even with a good o line

And that didn't change this year with Newton. Guys still couldn't get open. Except for meyers at times. Until teams started to double him.
 

Tottie

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Haven't read much because this thread has already turned into something else, but I'd rather keep Cam than get Mariota. Will either give us the playoffs? If not then at least the guys know Cam and he's cheaper. Build the roster up and get a QB next year. Mariota's contract has a few performance escalators based on play time and it's just not worth it. He's not accurate.
 

RIpats88

In the Starting Line-Up
Haven't read much because this thread has already turned into something else, but I'd rather keep Cam than get Mariota. Will either give us the playoffs? If not then at least the guys know Cam and he's cheaper. Build the roster up and get a QB next year. Mariota's contract has a few performance escalators based on play time and it's just not worth it. He's not accurate.

I guess the question is(and I haven't watched enough mariota to know) is he more of a natural QB than Cam Newton and run their offense better?
 

Tottie

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
I guess the question is(and I haven't watched enough mariota to know) is he more of a natural QB than Cam Newton and run their offense better?
He's more athletic at this point but if the end result is the same I just don't know. if you have to give up draft capital and pay him more to miss the playoffs it would be a shame. I don't think either can run the traditional NE offense but I'm no expert. I can't wait for free agency to start already so we can see all this unfold. I'm betting there will be no major QB upgrade this year but he'll build up the roster.
 

RIpats88

In the Starting Line-Up
He's more athletic at this point but if the end result is the same I just don't know. You have to give up draft capital and pay him more to miss the playoffs it would be a shame. I don't think neither can run the traditional NE offense but I'm no expert. I can't wait for free agency to start already so we can see all this unfold. I'm betting there will be no major QB upgrade this year but he'll build up the roster.

I'm kind of coming around that Cam Newton may be back and that alot of his issues may have been due to personnel.

A bunch of #2 or #3 receivers, no tight ends, least passes in the NFL. Signed in July, covid.

Watching brady go from 25tds to 40tds in tampa kind of confirms the weapons are a major issue. Although cams skipping passes at running backs feet and lack of blitz awareness is a big issue
 

Tottie

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
I'm kind of coming around that Cam Newton may be back and that alot of his issues may have been due to personnel.

A bunch of #2 or #3 receivers, no tight ends, least passes in the NFL. Signed in July, covid.

Watching brady go from 25tds to 40tds in tampa kind of confirms the weapons are a major issue. Although cams skipping passes at running backs feet and lack of blitz awareness is a big issue
I'm not going to compare him to Tom, but obviously the lack of talent hurt Cam. He wasn't good either though but the replacements we have available may not be much better. Hopefully it's resolved no later than the draft so guys can get to work because with the extra game, weaker schedule and extra playoff spot, it is possible to get in the tournament.
 

RIpats88

In the Starting Line-Up
I'm not going to compare him to Tom, but obviously the lack of talent hurt Cam. He wasn't good either though but the replacements we have available may not be much better. Hopefully it's resolved no later than the draft so guys can get to work because with the extra game, weaker schedule and extra playoff spot, it is possible to get in the tournament.
Definitely not comparing him to Tom because he was able to make it work as good as he could. While cam couldn't.

But when your former QB throws an extra 15tds after he leaves that is a huge increase that can't be ignored. That's a 60% increase in just switching weapons. And brady didn't get 60% better. The talent around him just was so bad in new england
 

One-If-By-Sea

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Definitely not comparing him to Tom because he was able to make it work as good as he could. While cam couldn't.

But when your former QB throws an extra 15tds after he leaves that is a huge increase that can't be ignored. That's a 60% increase in just switching weapons. And brady didn't get 60% better. The talent around him just was so bad in new england
If he healed from tennis elbow and was able to practice all week, the offense will be better. The weapons in Tampa are better too. When you pick in the Top 10, on average, you get more athletic players. The draft system is designed that way.

Simple explanations that have been reviewed a 100 times. Time to move on.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
I see the problem, you don’t understand the cap.
You can’t spread the dead money hit to “2-3 years”. The dead money of about 13.5 mill would have been spread over 2 years not one.
Brady’s cap number wouldn’t be “somewhere between” it would have been 6.75 mill, from above, plus his 2020 salary plus half of his new signing bonus on his 2 year contract. If he got the contract Tampa gave him, he counted 25 million there so it would have been 31.75 mill here.
compared to the 13.5 we took in dead money, it would have hit our cap an additional 18.25 mill.
All the moves we made through newton had us right up against the cap. So if we kept Brady we would have had to shed (or not added) 18.25 million.
Hence the point that we would have not been able to keep Thuney and McCourty (almost exactly the same cost)
Sure you could find 18.25 million elsewhere but no matter where, you have downgraded the actual team that was on the field in 2020 which was a downgrade already from 2019 due to the cap.
The cap savings on cutting cannon (which results in a bad 2019 OL seemingly getting much worse for Brady) not signing Philips ( who was one of our best defenders) and Allen (meaning you would have felt letting Shelton go and adding no one at dt is smart) would have affected the cap by only 12 million, not enough, and less than thuneys hit alone.

The dead money gets spread over 2 years, but any NEW contract can be extended indefinitely, as can the bonus money. Regardless, you didn't even take the reduction of the dead money into account when you mentioned Brady's cap hit. Your whole accounting here is taking a one year contract and stuffing it into one year. It doesn't have to be that way and Belichick never did things that way anyway. How do I know? Because Brady had a dead cap hit last year.

Also, this isn't about Brady. I don't care about his Tampa contract. This whole discussion is about BB's handling of the salary cap. What Tampa offered Tom wasn't on offer by BB so that's totally irrelevant. The whole point of this discussion is what BB offered Tom in relation to the cap. Not what Tampa offered him.

It's crazy that you keep repeating the same madness about Thuney when BB franchised Thuney and offered Brady at the same time. Thuney signed on the night of the 18th which was the day Brady announced he was leaving the Patriots. Clearly BB knew he could keep both, and I showed how. With cuts. Your number of $12 million is also totally wrong because you haven't accounted for Cannon's cap hit from last year. Which we took in part ($2.7m). His opt out wasn't a total clearing of the decks.

Cannon would have been cut regardless for the substantial savings. Making the OL worse? How so? We would have all the lineman back healthy. How would it be worse? Cannon was bad in 2019. Last year's line was a huge improvement over 2019. WITHOUT Cannon. You're also not including Cam Newton's $1.75m cap hit.
 

RIpats88

In the Starting Line-Up
If he healed from tennis elbow and was able to practice all week, the offense will be better. The weapons in Tampa are better too. When you pick in the Top 10, on average, you get more athletic players. The draft system is designed that way.

Simple explanations that have been reviewed a 100 times. Time to move on.

Don't think I'm arguing any of that. It's not a comparison of Tom Brady and Cam newton. Just saying that the lack of talented personnel on the Patriots clearly affect the QB. I mean when you have to use trick play after trick play to scheme guys open it's not a good sign

Just making a case that cam may not be as bad as he looked last year.
 

TommyBrady12

Hall of Fame Poster
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Great another thread where we can complain about the 2007 season. We can blame a lot of people in SB42, including the entire offense and coaching staff. Defense did its job holding the Giants to 17 points (down from the 35 points they scored against NE in the regular season) except for one guy.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
Don't think I'm arguing any of that. It's not a comparison of Tom Brady and Cam newton. Just saying that the lack of talented personnel on the Patriots clearly affect the QB. I mean when you have to use trick play after trick play to scheme guys open it's not a good sign

Just making a case that cam may not be as bad as he looked last year.

I'm sure he's not as bad. But that would go fo any QB.

A case could be made that Cam's running ability actually made the offense look better than it otherwise would have.

But this team is going nowhere with a QB that is short-arming throws and who is wildly inaccurate. Especially on the intermediate stuff. I almost had more faith with Cam throwing 25 yards than I did with him throwing 10.

They need a clear reset with another QB.
 

DaBruinz

Pats, B's, Sox
PatsFans.com Supporter
It was abit of both though. I remember the media was saying receivers couldn't get any separation. So brady had to hold onto the ball longer. Not a good recipe for success even with a good o line

And that didn't change this year with Newton. Guys still couldn't get open. Except for meyers at times. Until teams started to double him.
Guys got open plenty. Every game Newton missed guys who were WIDE open. From James White to Byrd to Harry. So this idea that receivers weren't open is bunk as well.
 

One-If-By-Sea

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Don't think I'm arguing any of that. It's not a comparison of Tom Brady and Cam newton. Just saying that the lack of talented personnel on the Patriots clearly affect the QB. I mean when you have to use trick play after trick play to scheme guys open it's not a good sign

Just making a case that cam may not be as bad as he looked last year.

That is a fair case that loses its luster when you exaggerate. Please see the bolded comment. Did the talent of the personnel surrounding Cam cause him to constantly hit James White out of stride, cause Cam to throw balls into the dirt 5 yards in front of the receiver? Not unless you think James White does not know the playbook or how to run a route. So did it affect Cam? Yes, agreed. Clearly is a stretch. It is equally clear that the talent had no affect on a lot of occasions.

This is old ground so I know you will disagree. Is there anything new to add to this discussion?
 
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