Game Day Thread Official Postgame Thread- Bills @ Pats

[Ross12]

But you sort of have to wonder if McDaniels didn't leave (or if they had at least groomed Caley - or somebody - especially knowing Josh might leave at some point), how things might have turned out here this year. But unfortunately, we'll never know.

I think they had groomed Mick Lombardi to some degree, but Josh took him to be his OC.

 

[h0c2000]

It's the same teams in the AFCCG each and every year.

How is it a 2-3 yr rebuild when the vast majority NEVER get there?

This is year 3. Next year is year 4.

I included 2019.

From 2020, he's replaced the starting WRs, TEs, RB, and QB. Andrews and Onwenu remain starters on the line. That's a rebuilt offense which in 2022 is offensive.

Since Bill's a defensive genius, whatever groceries he's purchased he has to live with. Overall the defense is average.

I don't get excited about kickers and special teams, but Folk is fine but Bailey looked like crap and maybe that explains the IR.

So yeah, he's had plenty of time to retool and rebuild. They turn over 20-30% of the roster every year. Less than 40% of the players remain from that team. That 2020 has been replaced and rebuilt.

A failed rebuild is still a rebuild.

 

[venecol]

One more postseason dud from Garoppolo and his market will be even smaller than the tumbleweeds of last off-season. Had the 49ers cut Garoppolo he would have been signed as a backup somewhere. He's not a top tier quarterback and for example he's not putting the Jets and certainly not the Falcons over the top.

JimmyG is #5 in rating (103), #8 in completion % (67.4%), and #6 in Yds/Att (7.8), has a 4:1 TD-INT ratio w/ only 17 sacks. He's a QB you can win games with but not as the Pats are presently configured w/ the lack of talent on O, & shoddy OL & coaching. He's better than a lot of QBs out there. Granted SF has a lot of talent and good coaching, so I doubt he goes anywhere that doesn't have those two aspects in common. Maybe the Jets w/ Saleh being the common thread.

 

[venecol]

Maybe Miami isn't too far away (if Tua's legit) but it's going to take a lot for another team in the East to get close to Buffalo. The Jets are so much better off with anyone other than Wilson but Garoppolo isn't bridging the gap between the Jets and the Bills (and Allen). The 49ers skill position players are also much better than the Jets.

Umm, Jets beat Bills w/ Wilson at QB. I think they can beat them w/ Jimmy.

 

[Ross12]

JimmyG is #5 in rating (103), #8 in completion % (67.4%), and #6 in Yds/Att (7.8), has a 4:1 TD-INT ratio w/ only 17 sacks. He's a QB you can win games with but not as the Pats are presently configured w/ the lack of talent on O, & shoddy OL & coaching. He's better than a lot of QBs out there. Granted SF has a lot of talent and good coaching, so I doubt he goes anywhere that doesn't have those two aspects in common. Maybe the Jets w/ Saleh being the common thread.

I agree with you here. The Pats would need to resolve their OT, WR and coaching deficiencies. They can splurge on the tackle position in free agency if they want to, and coaching is just a matter of doing what needs to be done. WR, I don't know. They'll lose Meyers if they spend big elsewhere, they'll probably have to turn to the draft and their younger guys. At least Garoppolo already has a connection with Bourne, they'd need to get him featured again and hope Thornton takes a big step.

 

[Ian]

My opinion has nothing to do with Brady but what is Bill actually as a coach and GM in 2022. I selected 7 wins in this thread. I didn't believe in the coaches, Jonnu smith (sorry dude you suck), the new offense from the reports, and Bourne being in the doghouse.

Maybe it's Ernie leaving or maybe it's him being 70 or maybe it's just Bill doing things his way no matter what, but he messed up year 2 of Mac's development. He won't commit to Mac over Zappe.

Would their record be any different with a coach like Frank Reich or Sean Payton?

Bill's a great coach, and his decision to let Groh take the lead GM-wise was obviously a smart one given their overall group of players this year. But obviously, his decision on Patricia is questionable, which is clearly playing a big role in what has been a frustrating season on offense.

Would they be better under Reich or Payton? Good question, but I think Bill is a better overall game-planner than both and better in pressure situations. I also feel like that's why aside from Thursday night, the Patriots have been in pretty much every game this year with a couple of plays here or there being the difference. He's always been outstanding at that, and the players always take the field seemingly with zero question about what they need to do, especially defensively. Having watched the Saints with Brees at QB, I didn't see that overall from Payton, and I can't give a good opinion on Reich because other than the Patriots match-ups, I really didn't see or watch anything they did.

But I agree, losing Ernie was big and losing Scar was big. But clearly, losing McDaniels has probably been a little more significant than we hoped it would be.

 

[venecol]

He restructured and took a pay cut from >$20M down to only $6M, which means he probably felt he wasn't going to get much more than that elsewhere.

He had a $7M base plus incentives: $250k per game + $100k per win.

So that's $4M on game bonuses. Plus $1M in win bonuses (assuming 10 wins). Then he gets $500k per playoff game. Assuming he makes it to CG, another $1.5M and if they win the SB, another $1M.

So he could potentially make $14.5M, but at least $12.5M if they lose in WC round.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

Throwbacks record:

Zappe 1-0
View attachment 47915

Mac 0-1
View attachment 47916

lions choked vs bills

 

[slash83]

Can’t believe all this talk about Jimmy G and getting rid of Mac. Poor guy was set up to fail this season thanks to his HC and y’all just wanna kick him to the curb. Put a line in front of him, top 10 QB.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

The other NFL Teams continuously purge coaching and FO talent from the Pats, they've been doing it for years now.
Anyone that has eyes can see that, and I don't know what folks think, these guys work their way up in the organization and get promoted when Bill decides they are ready, they are valuable pieces that we keep losing.

I don't know how many OTHER teams deal with the constant upheaval of coaching talent, but it has to be tough to keep having to deal with.

Not making excuses, but it has to have an affect IMHO.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

i think jg is going to price himself out of our range, hes going to end up having a really good season thanks to having deebo, cmc, kittle, aiyuk. In our offense jg is not going to be worth that kind of money. I might have been interested when he was in the 20-25 m per range but think its better to roll with mac and zappe one more year before pulling that plug

 

[crawhammer]

JimmyG is #5 in rating (103), #8 in completion % (67.4%), and #6 in Yds/Att (7.8), has a 4:1 TD-INT ratio w/ only 17 sacks. He's a QB you can win games with but not as the Pats are presently configured w/ the lack of talent on O, & shoddy OL & coaching. He's better than a lot of QBs out there. Granted SF has a lot of talent and good coaching, so I doubt he goes anywhere that doesn't have those two aspects in common. Maybe the Jets w/ Saleh being the common thread.

Garoppolo is total garbage in the postseason. If it's more of the same this year then he's finished, especially in San Francisco. The 49ers are championship ready everywhere except for the quarterback position.

 

[crawhammer]

Umm, Jets beat Bills w/ Wilson at QB. I think they can beat them w/ Jimmy.

Not likely. Buffalo will show that first contest against NYJ was an aberration.

 

[captain stone]

And who in this group do you think can still be salvaged? Or do we flip everything and basically start over?

Out of that group - OL, Patricia, WRs & Mac - Andrews, Onwenu & Strange should and will stay; however we need TWO starting-caliber Left Tackles: Lose/Lose gets a $10M kiss but there no hope in Hades that he's here next year, under Any circumstances; Trent Brown becomes our Right Tackle, if he doesn't have another tummy ache or whatever, that is... And as always, we need an actual, legitimate Center of the Future.

Phatt Matt's phinished as OC; that's Non-Negotiable.

DawgHaus Bourne's shooting his way outta town; he won't be back and neither will free agent to-be Agholor, who Just Plain Sucks.

Would love to sign Meyers to a multi-year extension averaging $10M per. Don't know how much higher than that I would go...

Mac will of course return, unless something really weird happens at the position... But he must NOT just be handed the starting role; let him fight for the right, for once.

That's pretty much where I start. It will be criminal if we don't go after a top tackle on the free agent market and draft one in the first 2 rounds and probably even another in rds 3-5.

Assuming we fix this can Mac still be Salvaged? Would Patricia actually be able to scheme things? Could Bourne and the TEs be turned around?

An improved OL next year will mean an improved Mac next year; it's only logical. What I want to see happen however is a Real, Live QB competition during TC; then we'll all see who's worth salvaging...

Phatt Matt won't be scheming anything next year, at least nothing offensively-related.

DawgHaus is Gone, but we're stuck with the TEs for another year; I believe they're too expensive to cut.

 

[captain stone]

QB: 2nd least.
RB: 5th least.
WR: 2nd most money tied up. There's absolutely no way you could pay Meyers to be your highest paid WR at this point. You have to let him walk.
TE: 1st most. We all know how bad this is.
LB: 6th most (Judon takes up around 50% of total money).
DB: 6th most. Now this is bizarre. Where is the money going to?
ST: 10th least.

It's going to one of Billy's flavorite pets, the Lip-Flapper.

 

[captain stone]

I think they had groomed Mick Lombardi to some degree, but Josh took him to be his OC.

If that was the case, then I'm glad that Skippy saved Bill from himself.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Probably the best is Rham but overall our offense is struggling...a lot...
Instead defense this year has been much more better i expected

Rob Ninkovich on the defense:

"any team that they've played that is decent has been able to move the ball pretty easily on them".

It's going to one of Billy's flavorite pets, the Lip-Flapper.

I'm guessing you are referring to McCourty?

Jonathon jones has the highest cap number at $7.7M. So your slot CB who is moved to the outside the highest paid DB on the team? Okay.
Jalen Mills is 2nd with $6M.
McCourty is 3rd at $5.7M

There's 12 DB's on the roster (way too many) which is why the cap number is so high at a total of $31M which is 2nd in total cap to WR at $34M for the Pats.

 

[h0c2000]

The Eagles took 5 years to rebuild from their SB winning 2017 team to their current NFC best 2022 team. Five years, not 2-3.

Denver has been rebuilding since 2015, with only one winning season in there (2016).

Seattle was last good in 2020. Last year they went 7-10. This year, in year 2 of the rebuild, they're 6-5, with Geno Smith as their QB, who is not the long-term answer.

The Dolphins won 10 games in 2016, then have been building ever since, with only one good year since then (10-6 in 2020). They are finally really good, but it took them a long time to get there, not 2-3 years.

The Bengals won 12 games in 2015 and had their first good season with Burrow/Chase/Higgins/Mixon in 2021, a stretch of 6 seasons.

The Panthers have been rebuilding since 2017, when they won 11 games. No more than 7 wins in any season since.

The Falcons were last good in 2017 as well, when they won 10 games. Since then, they haven't won more than 7 in any year.

The Steelers won 12 games two seasons ago in 2020, but since then they won 9 and now are 4-7. Their rebuild looks like it will take more than 2-3 years since they're already in year 2 and they suck.

I could go on but you get the point. The idea that rebuilds back to contender status only take 2-3 years in this day and age is absurd and demonstrably false.

Eagles have had 2 HC since 2017

Denver has had 4 HC and 2 GM since 2015

Seattle has been better than the Pats since 2019 and is 1 game out of 1st in the division. Pats haven't won the division since 2019 and won't for the foreseeable future.

Dolphins have had 3 HC since 2016

Bengals have had 2 HC since 2015

Falcons have had 2 HC and 2 GM since 2017 (not counting Raheem Morris)

Steelers haven't had 2 seasons yet to even use them. Ben played last season.

What do all these teams have in common? Multiple HC / GMs. The Seahawks and Steelers have had less time then BB has had and Pete's winning with Geno Smith! Steelers have a Rookie QB. Let's see if the switch out their OC with a DC and also swap out their systems.

 

[upstater1]

I included 2019.

From 2020, he's replaced the starting WRs, TEs, RB, and QB. Andrews and Onwenu remain starters on the line. That's a rebuilt offense which in 2022 is offensive.

Since Bill's a defensive genius, whatever groceries he's purchased he has to live with. Overall the defense is average.

I don't get excited about kickers and special teams, but Folk is fine but Bailey looked like crap and maybe that explains the IR.

So yeah, he's had plenty of time to retool and rebuild. They turn over 20-30% of the roster every year. Less than 40% of the players remain from that team. That 2020 has been replaced and rebuilt.

A failed rebuild is still a rebuild.

2019 we still had Tom Brady and were locked into a roster that had just one the Super Bowl. You're saying we should have dismantled the Super Bowl champion when we had no salary cap space to replace them?

That makes no sense.

This is the 3rd year of the rebuild. The final pieces this team needs will come in over the next year. We've had 3 straight good drafts. That's a good foundation.

 

[upstater1]

Sorry, you're right, I've blocked out the Cassel year from my mind. He did go 10-5 without Brady that year. So Bill has a winning record 40% of the time without Brady starting the majority of the season's game as the Patriots head coach. That's pretty close to Pete Carroll's 1 out of 3.

There are 16 games in a season. Not 15.

Without his tear down of the team in 2000, we don't have the success we did. He got rid of very talented people who weren't with the program and replaced them with people he trusted to "do their job." Vets. Hold the fort types. Without that, we don't build and win Super Bowls.

You're holding the Browns experience against him even though we all know that franchise was a s***show that pulled the rug out from everyone after the playoffs.

The Browns thing tells us NOTHNG about Belichick.

In fact, after he left the Browns, he came to New England, became the assistant coach, head of the defense, and helped turn a 6-10 team into the AFC Champion.

He's also 2-2 winning seasons to losing seasons without Brady with the Patriots. Not 40% and Pete Carroll wasn't 1 of 3 either. It's not that hard to look up facts instead of constantly getting them wrong