Game Day Thread Official Postgame Thread- Bills @ Pats

[captain stone]

Bourne's back there with his hand up, the play's wide open for the taking.

Seems like a play any Johnny Foxboro should make...

 

[captain stone]

Not trying to be a jerk, just being honest. I don’t think he trusts his arm to have the velocity to get it in there in time for a DB to not pick it off. That throw takes serious arm strength.

Too late.


I rarely respond to trolls, but I couldn't help myself this time. Goodbye again.

 

[crawhammer]

We don’t. Which is why I wouldn’t sign Garoppolo to a longer deal.

I've seen enough of Garoppolo. He's not moving the needle in the division. He plays for an all-star team right now and he clearly won't have that in NE. Jones to Garoppolo is a lateral move. I'd rather see what Zappe can offer as The Guy.

I'm curious about your thoughts on Brady returning to NE. Obviously it's a remote possibility at best but do you think he and Bill could rekindle their championship groove for a couple of seasons with the roster otherwise remaining roughly the same? And with a new OC of Brady's choosing.

 

[Toofy]

I'm honestly about ready to sign up for inking Jimmy G to a 4 year deal, develop Zappe, trade Mac for a 2nd + 3rd (I think you can get that) and use those to move up for a tackle in the draft. Slightly backload Jimmy's deal to leave room in '22 to sign more linemen, re-sign Meyers and target more receivers. And get a new OC...

You can compete with that 100%. Jimmy will get hurt sometimes, but Zappe can manage games.

No QB would be willing to come to NEP after seeing our OLine and coaching and lack of offensive play akers outside of Rham . Doubt Jimmy comes here. It's either jets or falcons.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I'm having a hard time deciding who deserves the most blame and who deserves a second shot assuming we fix one or two of the other areas. For me I blame OL first, Mac second but the injury very much to blame, then coaching.

Personally I would major revamp all 3 but I'm not sure BB will blow it up like that.

I mean gimme Jimmy, Bob, an expensive LT, and another high drafted OL.

But unless the rest of the season goes as bad as Thursday I'm not sure Bill will. If we still salvage this and make the playoffs it could get real interesting.

Jimmy G, Bill O’brien & drafting OL would improve the team the most IMO. They could trade Mac to the saints for their 2nd round pick since they don’t have their first in this draft.

Stevenson would be an animal with a fixed OL & a return to the gap run scheme. PA off of it would be pretty good. Im with you & @Ross12 on this one.

 

[crawhammer]

No QB would be willing to come to NEP after seeing our OLine and coaching and lack of offensive play akers outside of Rham . Doubt Jimmy comes here. It's either jets or falcons.

One more postseason dud from Garoppolo and his market will be even smaller than the tumbleweeds of last off-season. Had the 49ers cut Garoppolo he would have been signed as a backup somewhere. He's not a top tier quarterback and for example he's not putting the Jets and certainly not the Falcons over the top.

 

[Ian]

I'm curious about your thoughts on Brady returning to NE.

I think the likelihood of that is 0%. When Brady comes back, it will be for a day for obvious reasons.

If he plays one more season, I wouldn't rule out Brady going to San Francisco for a year while giving Lance another year to learn/develop/heal. Aside from that, no idea how that's going to play out.

 

[Toofy]

One more postseason dud from Garoppolo and his market will be even smaller than the tumbleweeds of last off-season. Had the 49ers cut Garoppolo he would have been signed as a backup somewhere. He's not a top tier quarterback and for example he's not putting the Jets and certainly not the Falcons over the top.

I donno if you saw the 49rrs game. Garopollo looks sharp. The best game manager in town. With jets weapons he will do fantastic.

 

[crawhammer]

I donno if you saw the 49rrs game. Garopollo looks sharp. The best game manager in town. With jets weapons he will do fantastic.

Maybe Miami isn't too far away (if Tua's legit) but it's going to take a lot for another team in the East to get close to Buffalo. The Jets are so much better off with anyone other than Wilson but Garoppolo isn't bridging the gap between the Jets and the Bills (and Allen). The 49ers skill position players are also much better than the Jets.

 

[h0c2000]

So far, I guess. But the fact they're penalizing Bill for finding Brady and playing a role in developing him and then capitalizing off of that development is still something I don't understand. They act like he played no role in Brady ultimately becoming who he turned out to be, and that's absolutely more than a little unfair.

Is it penalizing or just the scoreboard? Parcells has it right, "You are what your record says you are." Bill is a sub 500 coach in his career without Brady. Bill decided he could win without Brady. Bill's record shows he's just a .500 coach without the GOAT. Five seasons in Cleveland and only 1 above .500. Four season in NE without TB12 and only 1 above 500. Yes I'm counting this season, no way they win 3 more games. As Bill would smugly say, it it what it is. Never mind the fact that he couldn't even win a single game as the Jets HC! (that's a joke)

 

[Toofy]

Maybe Miami isn't too far away (if Tua's legit) but it's going to take a lot for another team in the East to get close to Buffalo. The Jets are so much better off with anyone other than Wilson but Garoppolo isn't bridging the gap between the Jets and the Bills (and Allen). The 49ers skill position players are also much better than the Jets.

Jets defense is legit. They can do more turnovers off the bills and cover diggs better. We might need the top 10 pick to get a shutdown corner and then draft O line talent in 2nd and 3rd round . They will do well with garopollo. But if white is even 80% of garopollo I expect the jets to get to playoffs this season and make some noise.

We might need to get back to complex EP routes just to overcame talent gap in wr.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I believe it was Alvin Einstein who first created the formula, but it bears repeating here:

BB - TB = **** LeBeau

Speaking of famous inventors, BB continues to ignore the wisdom of one of the most famous inventors of all time - Albert Einstein:



BB keeps putting out the SAME 'dream team' combo of Matt Patricia, Mac Jones, and Joe Judge.
And they keep FAILING at offense. And he still expects different results?! Simply INSANE!

 

[upstater1]

Rham and Uche


Rebuilds in the NFL in 2022 take 2-3 years, not 5. I see regression and not progression this year. Since Bill runs the organization as GM and HC it's all on his shoulders. I wouldn't give a year 5.



For comparison, Shula was above 500 his last 5 seasons. I don't see the Pats above 500 this year or next. Bill would be lucky to surpass Shula before he's 75.

It's the same teams in the AFCCG each and every year.

How is it a 2-3 yr rebuild when the vast majority NEVER get there?

This is year 3. Next year is year 4.

 

[upstater1]

Is it penalizing or just the scoreboard? Parcells has it right, "You are what your record says you are." Bill is a sub 500 coach in his career without Brady. Bill decided he could win without Brady. Bill's record shows he's just a .500 coach without the GOAT. Five seasons in Cleveland and only 1 above .500. Four season in NE without TB12 and only 1 above 500. Yes I'm counting this season, no way they win 3 more games. As Bill would smugly say, it it what it is. Never mind the fact that he couldn't even win a single game as the Jets HC! (that's a joke)

2008 and 2021 were both winning seasons.

You guys will do anything to knock Belichick

 

[Ian]

Is it penalizing or just the scoreboard? Parcells has it right, "You are what your record says you are." Bill is a sub 500 coach in his career without Brady. Bill decided he could win without Brady. Bill's record shows he's just a .500 coach without the GOAT. Five seasons in Cleveland and only 1 above .500. Four season in NE without TB12 and only 1 above 500. Yes I'm counting this season, no way they win 3 more games. As Bill would smugly say, it it what it is. Never mind the fact that he couldn't even win a single game as the Jets HC! (that's a joke)

Again, had to find and develop the GOAT. And Bill didn't decide he could win without Brady. He was just stubborn and stuck to his "too early" than "too late" mentality, and Brady decided he'd had enough and called him on it.

I disagreed with it and felt they should have ridden him until the wheels came off because he hadn't ever given him a reason not to believe in him.

They didn't, and it is what it is.

But I don't hold the success the two had together against Belichick since that was a mutual effort. It takes a really good to great QB to win in this league consistently, as well as great coaching. You can win with a good QB if you have good coaching. If anything, I hold the OC decision against him, because I've seen enough to know that while Mac has his flaws, he's a young guy who also needed to develop. Tough to do that and get better under these circumstances.

Yet, like others have pointed out, Patricia was also put in this position, and I guess none of us should be surprised with the results.

And let's not kid anyone. Brady immediately won in Tampa because of his resume. If he goes in there without that, I don't know how all the yelling, etc. sits with those guys. Credibilty goes a long way, and obviously, he had it, and the guys listened because he also had the talent and the work ethic to back it up.

But you sort of have to wonder if McDaniels didn't leave (or if they had at least groomed Caley - or somebody - especially knowing Josh might leave at some point), how things might have turned out here this year. But unfortunately, we'll never know.

 

[h0c2000]

2008 and 2021 were both winning seasons.

You guys will do anything to knock Belichick

Sorry, you're right, I've blocked out the Cassel year from my mind. He did go 10-5 without Brady that year. So Bill has a winning record 40% of the time without Brady starting the majority of the season's game as the Patriots head coach. That's pretty close to Pete Carroll's 1 out of 3.

 

[Ross12]

I agree, but I guess it depends on how the year finishes. If he ends up either in the NFC Championship or the Super Bowl, that probably changes things.

It’s tough. I think the one sticking point is the Patriots won’t over pay him, so it sort of comes down to whatever someone else is willing to offer him. I’d like to think after everything that’s gone down, he’d go where he’s wanted and appreciated. But like you said, the offers would need to be close to equal for that to happen.

We'll have to see. It's hard to gauge his market since the 49ers were basically holding him ransom. From what we've heard, it seems like the Pats were ready to trade for Garoppolo in 2021 but were unwilling to send #15 overall for him which was obviously ridiculous. But SF didn't have any other suitors... and then in 2022 they couldn't get any bites, and Garoppolo had to sign off on any trade or be released, and they held him until it was ultimately too late to latch on with another team as a starter. He restructured and took a pay cut from >$20M down to only $6M, which means he probably felt he wasn't going to get much more than that elsewhere. If he goes on another run then I guess it could change things, but he's gone on several runs before. The talent around him is even higher than it was during his prior NFC title appearances.

 

[venecol]

Hell I don't think they have one on defense either that offenses have to plan around. Its all a bunch of either slow pokes or bumbling idiots who are in the wrong spot half the time.

Judon. Teams have to plan for him. That's it.

 

[h0c2000]

Again, had to find and develop the GOAT. And Bill didn't decide he could win without Brady. He was just stubborn and stuck to his "too early" than "too late" mentality, and Brady decided he'd had enough and called him on it.

I disagreed with it and felt they should have ridden him until the wheels came off because he hadn't ever given him a reason not to believe in him.

They didn't, and it is what it is.

But I don't hold the success the two had together against Belichick since that was a mutual effort. It takes a really good to great QB to win in this league consistently, as well as great coaching. You can win with a good QB if you have good coaching. If anything, I hold the OC decision against him, because I've seen enough to know that while Mac has his flaws, he's a young guy who also needed to develop. Tough to do that and get better under these circumstances.

Yet, like others have pointed out, Patricia was also put in this position, and I guess none of us should be surprised with the results.

And let's not kid anyone. Brady immediately won in Tampa because of his resume. If he goes in there without that, I don't know how all the yelling, etc. sits with those guys. Credibilty goes a long way, and obviously, he had it, and the guys listened because he also had the talent and the work ethic to back it up.

But you sort of have to wonder if McDaniels didn't leave (or if they had at least groomed Caley - or somebody - especially knowing Josh might leave at some point), how things might have turned out here this year. But unfortunately, we'll never know.

My opinion has nothing to do with Brady but what is Bill actually as a coach and GM in 2022. I selected 7 wins in this thread. I didn't believe in the coaches, Jonnu smith (sorry dude you suck), the new offense from the reports, and Bourne being in the doghouse.

Maybe it's Ernie leaving or maybe it's him being 70 or maybe it's just Bill doing things his way no matter what, but he messed up year 2 of Mac's development. He won't commit to Mac over Zappe.

Would their record be any different with a coach like Frank Reich or Sean Payton?

 

[venecol]

So if people aren't able to exclude the pre-Brady years from their argument, does that mean Bill has lost the only playoff game he's reached?

I doubt Bill would want to exclude the 36 wins he got w/ CLE or the 41 wins he got in NE w/o TB. It's a hollow argument to show his record isn't simply average (.472) w/o an elite QB. But I agree w/ Ian, he absolutely deserves credit for drafting and developing TB.