Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Vikings beat the Pats

[Ian]

The good-to-great QBs in this league get mad after the play, yell who they need to yell at (whether it’s the ref or a teammate), and move on, mentally, to the next play. You’re not doing yourself or your team any good when you have the emotional stability of a pee wee quarterback on the field.

I 100% agree with this - definitely needs to get his emotions in check.

 

[captain stone]

Mac with a little bit of time shows he is uncannily accurate. He can just throw the ball into areas 90% of NFL QBs can't. Reminds me of Drew Brees a little bit.

Mmm… No.

 

[captain stone]

3/4s of those coaches were on pervious SB winning teams.

And…?

 

[Kontradiction]

Yep… Corky’s such a self-soiling, gutless b!tch boy it’s sickening… Champagne Tony Eason 38 years later….

I don’t know if he’s gutless. He stands tall in the pocket in the face of the rush. But he whines and cries like a little b.itch when everything isn’t going his way. He runs way too hot and it’s folly to think it doesn’t negatively affect his play. Maybe this is something that will correct itself over time, with maturity, or not. I hope it does.

 

[venecol]

Anyone slighting the defense can do one

Take out the rookie RB idiotically running into the kicker and the stuff that came after and they gave up 299 yards and 19 points on a short week on the road.

and even then on the stuff after they were like inches close. There's probably only a handful of other WRs that hold onto that ball where McCourty laid a hit on Jefferson and then an inch lower on that TD ball Mills has a PBU

Are these flights of fancy of yours a coping mechanism to deal with losses or are you on some type of mind altering drug where the real world & an alternate universe collide?

 

[crawhammer]

I had the Vikings as slight favorites heading into the game (accounting for home field) but as I was watching the game it was clear to me the Patriots should have won the game. The KO return and the runner into the kicker penalty were killers, those two ST plays alone were the difference. The offense played it's best game of the season but still struggled in critical situational opportunities (3rd down and red zone). It can't be overstated either just how bad Minnesota's defense is... 32nd in pass defense and 31st in total yards. Their offense is a one-man show with Justin Jefferson who's just phenomenal... McCourty was a fraction late all night in double coverage. Minnesota currently has the second best record in the NFL but they rank 13th in my power rankings.

Ultimately I feel like the Patriots lost a game that they should have won. They're in a tough spot now with Buffalo up next and the rest of the division playing cupcakes this weekend (so back to last place in the division). Buffalo's defense is a mess with injuries and Josh Allen still doesn't look right so that matchup for the Patriots doesn't look as unfavorable as it had. Still I'm taking the Bills which will put the Patriots in back-to-back must win games against lesser opponents on the road (@ARI & @LVR).

 

[Tunescribe]

I understand people want to romanticize the Bledsoe/Brady thing, but as I've said repeatedly, it's not the same thing. And for those who want to say that Zappe is the answer, they seem to forget Zappe's 4th QTR against Chicago:

View attachment 47663

Not that I enjoy pointing that out because I'm not a big fan of s****** on our own players when Zappe's a great kid that didn't ask to be in this position.

At the same time, it's just strange to me that when Zappe played well, it was fine but when he had a tough second half (where they were shutout - BTW) it was either "the coaches suck" or the "team just sucks". Which I'm assuming is what would happen if he replaced Mac and also struggled with Patricia calling for reverses in odd situations.

This is such a bizarre year to say the least. Mac isn't a 5-year vet who hit his ceiling years ago. The kid's in his second season and missed a month's worth of football. I've also seen a fair amout of failed comeback attempts by Justin Herbert so far in Los Angeles. Is he a JAG with a better arm? I mean...it is what it is. It takes several seasons before you really know what you have.

Either way, these are the growing pains we're going to have to deal with and all of this is going to sort itself out eventually. Zappe's a rookie and they aren't in any rush with him. If he's ultimately the guy, we'll find out. If he's not, we'll find that out too. But the fact people are giving up on a kid who has barely been in the league for over a year, especially after everything that went wrong that he had nothing to do with (the kickoff return for a touchdown, the call on Hunter Henry, the running into the kicker call, etc.), is a little ridiculous.

"Zappe vs. Mac" is assuming mythological proportions. That it remains a thing among fans at this stage makes little sense, considering the coaching staff has made its determination for at least the balance of this season. Or so it appears, barring injury.

 

[venecol]

I'm ok with the FG w/ 6 seconds left. No time outs with a crap line in front of Mac. They absolutely needed points. Vikes could have blitzed. I get the logic.

Your overall point I agree with. Either the NEP have decided to shift strategies and draft/sign mid/low football IQ players or the coaching staff has become lax in emphasizing smart, situational football as THE most important thing it should be concerned with.

It's interesting, I watched an O'Connell interview on Wednesday where they asked him about his time with the Pats and what he remembers. He said what he remembers to this day is Bill & Co. drilling the fundamentals, that it's hard to win but if you do all the little thinks correctly & don't make the little mistakes, that alone can give you a win if the other team makes those mistakes. He said that influenced his coaching to this day. From seeing both teams perform last night, he may be Bill's best coaching offspring (even though not part of the tree). They also both seemed to embrace at the end in a sign of mutual respect.

Unlike this scene, lol.

 

[Pats2000]

That’s EXACTLY what the ruling should’ve been: Legal catch, but control not established until the ball was outside the goal line… 4th/Goal inside the 1.




HH Never established possession until the ball was outside the goal line… When the ball was over it, he was still in the process of establishing control of the catch… At No POINT did he become a “runner” and make a “football move” with the ball over the goal line… Because the ball loosened from his grip when he hit the ground, he had to Re-establish control… Which he did, but not until the ball was back outside - and NOT over - the goal line…. 4th/Goal inside the 1.

This isn’t that hard, folks… Except, strangely, it seems, to the most blind homers here and the suits (& skirts) on Park Avenue.

Wouldn't reaching the ball across the goal line be considered a football move?

 

[ralmat55]

It’s becoming increasingly clear to me that Tom Brady’s most important contribution to the quality of my life was to spare me two decades of mind numbing, never ending QB nitpicking, criticism, scapegoating and senseless debate.

I say to all those voices in the wilderness (just the ones with at least 500 posts) incessantly posting that Mac Jones is not the “one” that your opinion is duly noted and if you were to cease and desist posting your proclamation every day and in every thread that we here at Patsfans.com will anoint you with an official “prophet of god” status when the Pats move on from Jones whether to Zappe or anyone.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Rarely do you see a game so tilted 1 way by the officials:

Henry's catch was called a TD, and there was no indisputable evidence overturn it. His hand was under the ball, the hand hit the ground, and as he brought the hand & ball to his body the ball moved slightly while away from the ground. No way to determine if the ball itself hit the ground when his hand did, because his hand was clearly under the ball - you'd need a worm's angle to definitively know. The movement of the ball could have been caused by the hand hitting the ground, not the ball hitting the ground.

The kickoff return - how obvious does a hold have to be? Dugger was directly beside the lane the runner took, no more than 3' from him along the sideline. Blatantly held by the shoulder as he tried to make the tackle. That is a call that can't be missed.

The missed Mac face mask. If the referee is dedicated to watching what happens to the QB, it's impossible to miss what happened to Mac. It wasn't a glancing blow to the facemask. When you add on that Jon Jones was hit for TWO facemask penalties that were not even as blatant as this one, what you have is a farce.

The roughing the kicker: I may be wrong, but wasn't it more than 5 yards to go for the 1st? And isn't there both a 5 yard and 15 yard version of this penalty? Did they call the 15 yard version for what happened? The kicker left his foot way up just to draw contact, and Strong made contact with the sole of his shoe - not a dangerous hit at all.

Aside from the penalties, we made a boatload of mistakes. But that doesn't change the fact that these wrong calls cost us a minimum of 10 points, more than enough to cause the loss.

 

[Tunescribe]

It’s becoming increasingly clear to me that Tom Brady’s most important contribution to the quality of my life was to spare me two decades of mind numbing, never ending QB nitpicking, criticism, scapegoating and senseless debate.

I say to all those voices in the wilderness (just the ones with at least 500 posts) incessantly posting that Mac Jones is not the “one” that your opinion is duly noted and if you were to cease and desist posting your proclamation every day and in every thread that we here at Patsfans.com will anoint you with an official “prophet of god” status when the Pats move on from Jones whether to Zappe or anyone.

He very well might not be "the one." But declaring as much at this stage of his development confirms how embarrassingly little some people know about NFL football.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It's interesting, I watched an O'Connell interview on Wednesday where they asked him about his time with the Pats and what he remembers. He said what he remembers to this day is Bill & Co. drilling the fundamentals, that it's hard to win but if you do all the little thinks correctly & don't make the little mistakes, that alone can give you a win if the other team makes those mistakes. He said that influenced his coaching to this day. From seeing both teams perform last night, he may be Bill's best coaching offspring (even though not part of the tree). They also both seemed to embrace at the end in a sign of mutual respect.

Unlike this scene, lol.

Clearly Thielen doesn't comprehend the depths of being "Dead to BB"

 

[Triumph]

Yeah, this is why some of us lose patience so quickly because this is a league where they've catered to offensive players so it's way easier to get open and their opportunities to get the ball has gone up dramatically.

The College game has mirrored the Pro game. These NCAA WRs and DBs come NFL ready out of the wrapper.

The Patriot way will still work, but you need a QB who can make clutch throws.

 

[sb1]

Zappe = Cooper Rush = Mike White = Trevor Siemian

Same QB, same talent, same potential, same ceiling, hyped up the same, same opportunity to win their starting job and all have the same outcome… back on the bench. I know we want to find another Brady but that’s never happening. Not every QB that has a good 1-2 games is a future star. Most aren’t.

Mac is the guy for now imo. Let’s see where he’s at when the season ends. I’m happier with what I’m seeing than I was a month ago.

 

[Kontradiction]

Rarely do you see a game so tilted 1 way by the officials:

Henry's catch was called a TD, and there was no indisputable evidence overturn it. His hand was under the ball, the hand hit the ground, and as he brought the hand & ball to his body the ball moved slightly while away from the ground. No way to determine if the ball itself hit the ground when his hand did, because his hand was clearly under the ball - you'd need a worm's angle to definitively know. The movement of the ball could have been caused by the hand hitting the ground, not the ball hitting the ground.

The kickoff return - how obvious does a hold have to be? Dugger was directly beside the lane the runner took, no more than 3' from him along the sideline. Blatantly held by the shoulder as he tried to make the tackle. That is a call that can't be missed.

The missed Mac face mask. If the referee is dedicated to watching what happens to the QB, it's impossible to miss what happened to Mac. It wasn't a glancing blow to the facemask. When you add on that Jon Jones was hit for TWO facemask penalties that were not even as blatant as this one, what you have is a farce.

The roughing the kicker: I may be wrong, but wasn't it more than 5 yards to go for the 1st? And isn't there both a 5 yard and 15 yard version of this penalty? Did they call the 15 yard version for what happened? The kicker left his foot way up just to draw contact, and Strong made contact with the sole of his shoe - not a dangerous hit at all.

Aside from the penalties, we made a boatload of mistakes. But that doesn't change the fact that these wrong calls cost us a minimum of 10 points, more than enough to cause the loss.

It was 4 yards to go for the 1st. That was a legit call. Just a stupid ass play by Strong, which is why he got reamed by BB afterward.

 

[Tunescribe]

Clearly Thielen doesn't comprehend the depths of being "Dead to BB"

I would think having BB's respect, as a player or coach, is a point of honor. Thielen was an idiot during that odd sideline exchange four years ago; probably too late for him to apologize, though.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

It was 4 yards to go for the 1st. That was a legit call. Just a stupid ass play by Strong, which is why he got reamed by BB afterward.

OK. It was a penalty, leading to a Vikings TD. Add it to the other list of completely boneheaded plays like Henry & Mac costing us 2 time outs and 4 points at the end of the 1st half. There's another 10 points in addition to the 10 points that the refs cost us.

 

[sb1]

Funny that BB’s players have had way more success as coaches than his staff. O’Connell, Vrabel, Kingsbury.

 

[Toofy]

I had the Vikings as slight favorites heading into the game (accounting for home field) but as I was watching the game it was clear to me the Patriots should have won the game. The KO return and the runner into the kicker penalty were killers, those two ST plays alone were the difference. The offense played it's best game of the season but still struggled in critical situational opportunities (3rd down and red zone). It can't be overstated either just how bad Minnesota's defense is... 32nd in pass defense and 31st in total yards. Their offense is a one-man show with Justin Jefferson who's just phenomenal... McCourty was a fraction late all night in double coverage. Minnesota currently has the second best record in the NFL but they rank 13th in my power rankings.

Ultimately I feel like the Patriots lost a game that they should have won. They're in a tough spot now with Buffalo up next and the rest of the division playing cupcakes this weekend (so back to last place in the division). Buffalo's defense is a mess with injuries and Josh Allen still doesn't look right so that matchup for the Patriots doesn't look as unfavorable as it had. Still I'm taking the Bills which will put the Patriots in back-to-back must win games against lesser opponents on the road (@ARI & @LVR).

So many plays went against us

1. Judon untimely offside penalty on 3rd down ( 7 points and drive extension)
2. Bourne PI not called ( - 4 points)
3. Hunter Henry touchdown reversal ( -4)
4. Agholor dropping a dime from Mac Jones ( - 7 point equalizer)
5. Meyers and rham dropping passes killing drive
6. Special teams gaffe 1 - return touchdown ( 7 points gift)
7. Special teams gaffe 2 - roughing kicker ( 7 points gift)
8. Dugger slipping on coverage to hockensen ( 7 points instead of 3)
9. Jonathan Jones not able to recover 1 of the 50% interception chances ( - 3 down)

Now tell me what can the QB do despite this ?