Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Vikings beat the Pats

[PatsWSB47]

On that amazing 4th QTR that Tool is so proud of:

New England's offense, which was good most of the night and playing a different sport than last week, managed just 58 yards on their final 13 real plays, with 40 of those yards coming from one screen to Rhamondre Stevenson. Two punts and a turnover on downs on three fourth-quarter drives (excluding the last-gasp final possession).

In the first three quarters, the Patriots offense generated +0.32 expected points added, but that fell off to -0.35 EPA per play in the final quarter. Yes, Hunter Henry caught the ball, which would've given them a red-zone score. But the Pats were 0-3 in the red zone and 3-10 on third down. Just ask the head coach about his offense's performance.

"Good at times, three-for-10 on 3rd down. Not really good enough. Couldn't get the ball in the red area on a couple drives. Room for improvement," Belichick said of his offense.

After Further Review: Patriots Get QB Mac Jones Back on Track With Familiar Script on Offense

The Patriots need better late-game execution in close games.

www.patriots.com

This is getting annoying. Take a break or something.

 

[Deus Irae]

What is really an epic display of stupidity is the "b-b-but the 2nd half against the Bears" crowd.

Zappe has played in two games where he was the starting QB when it matters, during the week of practice before the game. In those two games, he was very good. Against the Bears, he was good until he wasn't good. Would all the practice reps and game planning have made a difference? I don't know.

If you want to make a declarative statement on Zappe as a QB on one half when he wasn't even getting 1st team reps, then how do you still have hope for Mac after the many halves of shyt shows he has produced?

B-b-but Browns and Lions D! Vikings D is as bad if not worse.

I would have loved to see how Zappe looked against the Colts and JetsX2 with first team reps. It didn't happen. Now, I want to see Mac go on a roll against the weaker D's on the latter part of this schedule. Hopefully, he builds on last game.

Bears 2nd half! Pfft. Shall we list all of Mac's shytty halves too?

Great unintentional comedy. Thanks.



But it doesn't change the reality that Zappe was exposed in that game, anymore than Zappe being exposed in that game means Zappe can never have a good outing again.

 

[Kontradiction]

I know you don't like him, but this from Lazar (calls it a prayer):

The fourth down prayer to Nelson Agholor was against cover-six, where the corner had outside position. He wasn't really open. I get why some feel he gave up on the route, and he has these moments too often. Frustrating because he does get separation.

I don’t have a problem with Lazar in general. He’s knowledgeable about the “what” and the “how” aspect of the game, but misses on the “why.” That doesn’t look like Cover-6 to me unless the corner who was supposed to cover the flat screwed up.

 

[Deus Irae]

On that amazing 4th QTR that Tool is so proud of:

New England's offense, which was good most of the night and playing a different sport than last week, managed just 58 yards on their final 13 real plays, with 40 of those yards coming from one screen to Rhamondre Stevenson. Two punts and a turnover on downs on three fourth-quarter drives (excluding the last-gasp final possession).

In the first three quarters, the Patriots offense generated +0.32 expected points added, but that fell off to -0.35 EPA per play in the final quarter. Yes, Hunter Henry caught the ball, which would've given them a red-zone score. But the Pats were 0-3 in the red zone and 3-10 on third down. Just ask the head coach about his offense's performance.

"Good at times, three-for-10 on 3rd down. Not really good enough. Couldn't get the ball in the red area on a couple drives. Room for improvement," Belichick said of his offense.

After Further Review: Patriots Get QB Mac Jones Back on Track With Familiar Script on Offense

The Patriots need better late-game execution in close games.

www.patriots.com

There's always room for improvement, teams almost never score on every drive of a game, and your posting on this is silly. Troll better, for goodness' sake.

 

[Dingleberry]

Great unintentional comedy. Thanks.



But it doesn't change the reality that Zappe was exposed in that game, anymore than Zappe being exposed in that game means Zappe can never have a good outing again.

So how many games has Mac been exposed in then?

The real comedy is that your ego permits you to confuse your opinion with reality.

 

[venecol]

Agholor is matched up 1-on-1 with the Vikings' weakest DB (that is how the Vikings's pass defense developed) and the pass is perfect. The throw "under the coverage" to Henry might have been successful - it was a 4th down and Henry will have to break a tackle to make the 1st down marker (the defender covering Myers). I think the throw to Agholor was the right decision. Throwing to Henry is a 2nd guess with hindsight. It is good Mac pushed the ball down the field, and Agholor blew it.

Every analysis after the game is hindsight. It was 4th & 16, so it seems odd the play was a 40+ "prayer" to a covered player when you have a wide open player underneath because of the play design. Even Parker was more open on the deep crossing route, a much higher % throw. Game was effectively over after that incompletion. It is what it is. I'm just curious about the play design.

 

[venecol]

There's always room for improvement, teams almost never score on every drive of a game, and your posting on this is silly. Troll better, for goodness' sake.

Those are Lazar's words. I'll send him a tweet to troll better.

 

[h0c2000]

The Mac hate on this board has reached absurd heights now.

I'm not a huge fan of Mac but there are about 100 Zappe's either in the league on a roster or practice squad. That doesn't mean in a year or two he becomes a top 30 QB in the league. Right now, Zappe's not that. Mac is probably in the 20-25 range of starting QBs.

 

[venecol]

This is getting annoying. Take a break or something.

Talking football on a football forum. If it's annoying to you just use the mute function.

 

[Deus Irae]

Talking football on a football forum. If it's annoying to you just use the mute function.

You're trolling. You know you're doing it, and you probably know that you're doing it badly. Don't defend it by pretending that you're "talking football". Just troll better.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Bill is one of the very last coaches in the league who would buy into the sunk cost fallacy.

Oh really? Please explain why we are paying 10 million dollars to Isaiah Wynn to sit on our bench. Or how about please explain why we had to suffer through 4 years of N'Keal Harry doing absolutely bupkus on the field. BB is the definition of textbook 'sunk cost fallacy' thinking. He absolutely hates to admit that he was wrong and he'll never do it publicly with a mea culpa. You can only judge him by his actions and based on his action BB is stuck in his ways and he'll give any high draft pick extra rope to hang himself because he would hate to admit he was wrong in a draft evaluation, although his mistakes in that area are well documented.

 

[venecol]

 

[Deus Irae]

Oh really? Please explain why we are paying 10 million dollars to Isaiah Wynn to sit on our bench. Or how about please explain why we had to suffer through 4 years of N'Keal Harry doing absolutely bupkus on the field. BB is the definition of textbook 'sunk cost fallacy' thinking. He absolutely hates to admit that he was wrong and he'll never do it publicly with a mea culpa. You can only judge him by his actions and based on his action BB is stuck in his ways and he'll give any high draft pick extra rope to hang himself because he would hate to admit he was wrong in a draft evaluation, although his mistakes in that area are well documented.

You seem to be trying to fully equate untapped potential with sunk cost. They are not identical.

 

[venecol]

Rather see McMillan there than Tavai against the Bills.

 

[Deus Irae]

Just to point out the obvious, given the silliness of too much of this thread:

• This is not the week to be bashing Jones beyond a minimum.
• This is not the week to be giving Zappe a tongue bath.
• This is not the week to be overdoing it with praise for the defense.
• This is not the week to be singing the praises of the special teams.
• This is not the week to be singing the praises of the coaching staff.
• This is not the week to be singing the praises of BB the GM.
• This is not the week to be too staunchly defending the officials, or the use of replay.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Agholor is matched up 1-on-1 with the Vikings' weakest DB (that is how the Vikings's pass defense developed) and the pass is perfect. The throw "under the coverage" to Henry might have been successful - it was a 4th down and Henry will have to break a tackle to make the 1st down marker (the defender covering Myers). I think the throw to Agholor was the right decision. Throwing to Henry is a 2nd guess with hindsight. It is good Mac pushed the ball down the field, and Agholor blew it.

Agholor seems to make his biggest mistakes at the most crucial moments. His fumble in the Ravens game killed the comeback. Ultimately he cannot be relied on, even as secondary or tertiary receiver. Hopefully his days are numbered with the Pats.

 

[Tunescribe]

Agholor seems to make his biggest mistakes at the most crucial moments. His fumble in the Ravens game killed the comeback. Ultimately he cannot be relied on, even as secondary or tertiary receiver. Hopefully his days are numbered with the Pats.

The guy certainly can be frustrating. Yet, apart from Thornton he's the only downfield threat with appreciable speed.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Every analysis after the game is hindsight. It was 4th & 16, so it seems odd the play was a 40+ "prayer" to a covered player when you have a wide open player underneath because of the play design. Even Parker was more open on the deep crossing route, a much higher % throw. Game was effectively over after that incompletion. It is what it is. I'm just curious about the play design.

Parker was not open. There is a zone player in the middle of the field. Throwing the ball over the defender and down to Parker is almost an impossible pass. Henry was open short of the sticks (the outlet pass, checkdown), and Mac could have thrown it to him, but Henry has to avoid the tackle to make the 1st down marker. Not obvious that is a high % chance of a 1st down.

The play is designed to go multiple places (like every play) and the QB throws the ball based on how the defense reacts. There are a few plays exclusively to one player, but those are usually trick type of plays that are not appropriate on 4th down and 16 (the defense is going to back up and watch).

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Agholor seems to make his biggest mistakes at the most crucial moments. His fumble in the Ravens game killed the comeback. Ultimately he cannot be relied on, even as secondary or tertiary receiver. Hopefully his days are numbered with the Pats.

Agreed. Agholor never seems to come up "big".

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Cleveland game, 4th quarter pass to Tyquan stands out, though the pocket presence and movement may have been more impressive than the pass itself. Brady like pocket movement. I really want to see that from Mac. This is where Zappe is undoubtedly better than Mac.

Also Cleveland game, I recall two outs to Jakobi that had nice zip to them. Both were in the 20-25 yard range, I believe.

Thanks. I agree on Zappe's pocket presence - very impressive.

I do not consider Zappe's passes "big boy" although they were very nice passes. To me "big boy" passes say, "If you are going to put 8 guys in the box and run blitz, we will burn you", which is what Brady would do. After the Vikings game I can see how Mac can get there, to date I do not see the arm talent (allbeit with great pocket presence and movement) from Zappe. I could be wrong, Zappe is a rookie and only played in a few games which is too short to judge any QB.