Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Giants @ Pats

[Wozzy]

You keep saying that, knowing you're wrong. You're the one that listed Ben Coates. You're the one ignoring that Jerry Rice's official 40 time was 4.71. He's faster than Chrebet who certainly worked out all right. Wes Welker ran a 4.65 40. Steve Largen ran a 4.7 40. Those are facts, no rationalization is going to change them.

I never mentioned Coates at all, are you sure you’re arguing with the right person?

Jerry Rice ran a 4.5 forty at a rainy cold combine, the first one in history where everybody ran slower times. Listen to Mike Lombardi tell the story about him and Bill Walsh attending that first combine, the myth of a slow Jerry Rice is exactly that… a myth. He was about as fast as Nixon or Agholor… hell he ran a forty at the 2020 combine with Rich Eisen as a senior citizen and was clocked at 4.5. It’s a myth.

Lost in all this sentimentality regarding Meyers is his contract… that none of his defenders here want to even acknowledge.

He’s up for a contract, he has exceeded his salary and his production is comparable to another slot WR in Christian Kirk who got 4 years at 72 million. For that price they could probably extend both Nixon and Wilkerson who don’t have as big a body of work. Money matters, it’s a factor here… it the “pro” in professional football.

This isn’t simply a question of whether I “like” Jakobi… if I could sign both young WR’s for the price of one Meyers it’s not even a decision.

 

[Family]

They won’t keep 7 WR’s… mark it down. I don’t think they’ve ever rostered more than 6 and usually roster 5. All of this will be special teams dependent.

Yeah you're probably right.

Without a FB or special teams player I could see them carrying 4 RBs, and using Bourne as a RB of sorts.

 

[rochrist]

I never mentioned Coates at all, are you sure you’re arguing with the right person?

Jerry Rice ran a 4.5 forty at a rainy cold combine, the first one in history where everybody ran slower times. Listen to Mike Lombardi tell the story about him and Bill Walsh attending that first combine, the myth of a slow Jerry Rice is exactly that… a myth. He was about as fast as Nixon or Agholor… hell he ran a forty at the 2020 combine with Rich Eisen as a senior citizen and was clocked at 4.5. It’s a myth.

Lost in all this sentimentality regarding Meyers is his contract… that none of his defenders here want to even acknowledge.

He’s up for a contract, he has exceeded his salary and his production is comparable to another slot WR in Christian Kirk who got 4 years at 72 million. For that price they could probably extend both Nixon and Wilkerson who don’t have as big a body of work. Money matters, it’s a factor here… it the “pro” in professional football.

This isn’t simply a question of whether I “like” Jakobi… if I could sign both young WR’s for the price of one Meyers it’s not even a decision.

Below is what you posted: You didn't directly mention Coates, you said that Meyers was slower than everybody mentioned above, one of whom was Ben Coates. I'm sure Rice was faster, but you can't change the fact that his officially listed 40 time is what it is. Not to mention that 4.5 is not exactly blazing, and yet he ended up doing ok. As did Chrebet, Welker and Largent.

But they are playing football not doing obstacle course races.
Your post implies the cerebral part isn’t a skill and they just need to understand it like a go/no go gauge while a few 100s of a second running 40 yards on a track makes all the difference in the world.
Technique, intelligence, knowledge, attitude, effort, drive, etc gave a lot more to do with success than differences in “measurable” among players who all fit the basic mode of required speed, size, strength, etc.
Steve Largent, Wes Welker, Wayne Chrebet, Jerry Rice, Chris Hogan, Ben Coates, Hines Ward, Cooper Kupp and many others outperformed players with better measurables

Meyers is slow, slower than everybody mentioned above… there’s no rationalization that’s going to change that.

 

[Wozzy]

Yeah you're probably right.

Without a FB or special teams player I could see them carrying 4 RBs, and using Bourne as a RB of sorts.

They may have that utility player in Ty Montgomery, he can do it all.

 

[Wozzy]

Below is what you posted: You didn't directly mention Coates, you said that Meyers was slower than everybody mentioned above, one of whom was Ben Coates. I'm sure Rice was faster, but you can't change the fact that his officially listed 40 time is what it is. Not to mention that 4.5 is not exactly blazing, and yet he ended up doing ok. As did Chrebet, Welker and Largent.

That wasn’t me, it was Rings 6.

Meyers is slow, slower than everybody mentioned above… there’s no rationalization that’s going to change that.

I’m going to copy/paste what I wrote above because you completely ignored it, and it strikes at the heart of this Meyers conversation:

He’s up for a contract, he has exceeded his salary and his production is comparable to another slot WR in Christian Kirk who got 4 years at 72 million. For that price they could probably extend both Nixon and Wilkerson who don’t have as big a body of work. Money matters, it’s a factor here… it the “pro” in professional football.

This isn’t simply a question of whether I “like” Jakobi… if I could sign both young WR’s for the price of one Meyers it’s not even a decision.

 

[DaBruinz]

You keep saying that, knowing you're wrong. You're the one that listed Ben Coates. You're the one ignoring that Jerry Rice's official 40 time was 4.71. He's faster than Chrebet who certainly worked out all right. Wes Welker ran a 4.65 40. Steve Largen ran a 4.7 40. Those are facts, no rationalization is going to change them.

@Wozzy actually didn't mention Coates. @Ring 6 mentioned Coates.

People need to stop rambling on about 40 times from different Eras. There is times speed and game speed. Meyers game speed is average, but slower than the rest of the Patriots receivers.

I was one of the first to suggest that Meyers might be on the block because he doesn't fit what the Pats seem to be wanting to do on the offense. And I cited that numerous stats that had continued to decline despite the increase in receptions. The other reason I thought he could be traded is because his contract is cheap AND they have 3 players who could potentially take his spot in Bourne, Nixon and Wilkerson (though Wilkerson lined up primarily outside last year). I think that contract is more easily moved than Agholor's though Agholor offers things that Meyers doesn't.

Maybe the help at outside receiver with Parker and Thornton will result in Meyers numbers going up if he is kept. I don't know.

Only time will tell.

 

[DaBruinz]

Yeah you're probably right.

Without a FB or special teams player I could see them carrying 4 RBs, and using Bourne as a RB of sorts.

They have normally carried 5 RBs and the Additional FB.

Bolden and Johnson were very big on special teams.

 

[Uptown]

 

[rochrist]

That wasn’t me, it was Rings 6.

I’m going to copy/paste what I wrote above because you completely ignored it, and it strikes at the heart of this Meyers conversation:

He’s up for a contract, he has exceeded his salary and his production is comparable to another slot WR in Christian Kirk who got 4 years at 72 million. For that price they could probably extend both Nixon and Wilkerson who don’t have as big a body of work. Money matters, it’s a factor here… it the “pro” in professional football.

This isn’t simply a question of whether I “like” Jakobi… if I could sign both young WR’s for the price of one Meyers it’s not even a decision.

By 'as big a body of work' you mean zero, as opposed to someone who has clearly improved enormously every year he's been in the league, understands and gets along in the Pat's system, and has pronounced chemistry with Mac.

I know it was Ring 6. The point was that you responded "Meyers is slow, slower than everybody mentioned above…". Ben Coates was one of the everybodies mentioned above.

 

[Scotty]

Did not think this needs a thread of its own yet but as a reminder if you did not know already.........

The NFL recently revealed the dates on which teams are forced to make roster cuts during the preseason. There are three series of cuts that will help bring the roster all the way down from 90 to 53.

August 16: 90 to 85 players

August 23: 85 to 80 players

August 30: 80 to 53 players

 

[crawhammer]

This seems like more Patriot's suck nonsense.... if the Pats drafted Ridder or Pickett I suspect they would suck as well.

You wouldn't take Ridder or Pickett over Zappe? Of course you would but no one was advocating for the Patriots to take a 1st, 2nd or 3rd round quarterback. I didn't like the Zappe pick in the 4th round if for no other reason than I would have much preferred they go after a need in that spot. It's unlikely Zappe is ever the starting quarterback for an NFL team but he won't get an opportunity for the job in New England. If you put a 4th round value on strictly a backup quarterback then you're probably ok with the pick. Then comes the player evaluation, and from that standpoint, I wasn't impressed with his performance in the first preseason game... he might look great next week, but I don't think his arm strength is ever going to blow someone's socks off.

 

[Wozzy]

By 'as big a body of work' you mean zero, as opposed to someone who has clearly improved enormously every year he's been in the league, understands and gets along in the Pat's system, and has pronounced chemistry with Mac.

I know it was Ring 6. The point was that you responded "Meyers is slow, slower than everybody mentioned above…". Ben Coates was one of the everybodies mentioned above.

So you're going to avoid talking about money for as long as possible I guess...

 

[Wozzy]

You wouldn't take Ridder or Pickett over Zappe? Of course you would but no one was advocating for the Patriots to take a 1st, 2nd or 3rd round quarterback. I didn't like the Zappe pick in the 4th round if for no other reason than I would have much preferred they go after a need in that spot. It's unlikely Zappe is ever the starting quarterback for an NFL team but he won't get an opportunity for the job in New England. If you put a 4th round value on strictly a backup quarterback then you're probably ok with the pick. Then comes the player evaluation, and from that standpoint, I wasn't impressed with his performance in the first preseason game... he might look great next week, but I don't think his arm strength is ever going to blow someone's socks off.

He has the potential to be Drew Brees, he has the potential to be Drew Lock... nobody knows what he will become. That's the thing about the future... it's unwritten.

Saying he isn't tall enough doesn't hold water when Drew Brees and Russell Wilson became some of the best QB's in modern history.

And arm strength... isn't that the reason Mac Jones was going to fail?

 

[Wozzy]

I said this guy might be back...

 

[Sfpat]

Maybe you consider holding on to the ball a cerebral part of the game, but that reliability is what I think Meyers can do and Wilkerson/Nixon have not consistently done.

I agree with you now that Wilkerson will be picked up. There's just too much talent, more than both Nixon and Meyers IMO. I think Nixon makes the practice squad.

I would keep six WR's (7 with Slater) and cut Butler with maybe another vet who could probably come back with the new rules.

Every team has their Wilkersons and Nixons. Not sure either will get picked up as there is a ton of WR talent out there

 

[Ring 6]

Ben Coates… did you just compare him to a TE?

Meyers ran a 4.63, that was slower than everyone else you mentioned. Moreover guys like Welker and Kupp have proven to be much faster than their forty times, or have the ability to get to full speed quickly,

If Meyers was genuinely faster than his forty times we’d see it in his yards after catch, yards per reception and he’s probably score some TD’s.

Also side note: Jerry Rice ran a 4.5 forty at the first combine in history, and according to everyone who attended it was a sht show. They ran at near dark and it was freezing cold and rainy. According to coaches he regularly ran a 4.4 forty.

Yes I did. Ben Coates was far better than his measurables and you said he was faster than Meyers. He wasn’t.

4.63 was absolutely not slower than the players I mentioned. You are wrong.

In any event there are numerous players with good measurables who suck as well as with bad ones that are good, because they are playing football not running track.

 

[Sfpat]

You wouldn't take Ridder or Pickett over Zappe? Of course you would but no one was advocating for the Patriots to take a 1st, 2nd or 3rd round quarterback. I didn't like the Zappe pick in the 4th round if for no other reason than I would have much preferred they go after a need in that spot. It's unlikely Zappe is ever the starting quarterback for an NFL team but he won't get an opportunity for the job in New England. If you put a 4th round value on strictly a backup quarterback then you're probably ok with the pick. Then comes the player evaluation, and from that standpoint, I wasn't impressed with his performance in the first preseason game... he might look great next week, but I don't think his arm strength is ever going to blow someone's socks off.

I wouldn't underestimate the value of a 4th round backup QB. Do you see what the Cowboys have for backup QB? A Dak injury and they are toast.

 

[Uptown]

 

[JayNM]

By the end of the pre-season, it wouldnt surprise if all Wrs, sans Thornton and Kb, were floated around the league

 

[Ring 6]

Below is what you posted: You didn't directly mention Coates, you said that Meyers was slower than everybody mentioned above, one of whom was Ben Coates. I'm sure Rice was faster, but you can't change the fact that his officially listed 40 time is what it is. Not to mention that 4.5 is not exactly blazing, and yet he ended up doing ok. As did Chrebet, Welker and Largent.


Meyers is slow, slower than everybody mentioned above… there’s no rationalization that’s going to change that.

If the argument is that you can’t use Rices time well you can’t use any ones then.
Which is fine because football isn’t about getting out of a sprinter stance and running 40 yards straight. Football is about playing football. The “skill” that involves getting open, and catching passes is far more important than any measurable test. So to say the fast guy just needs to figure out the rest, is dismissing the skills that make a football player a football player.